Pastor wants us to be associated with a bigger church

Beth-el girl · Mar 1, 2005

to get more exposure. Plus get more material. He's looking into the Seventh day Baptist church. We have none around here. But I am wondering if this is good or bad. It would give us more to work with we could still keep the holy days and maybe this is a good way to teach mainstream Christianity about HIS days and ways. Any ideas on this. He wants us all to be comfortable with it.
Seems like we will still retain the ability to worship how we wish. It just gives us more to work with. :scratch:

visionary · Mar 1, 2005

I think God has given you a wonderful opportunity to work in His ministry....Go for it... May the Lord bless this new ministry will souls for His kingdom. This is a door, not just a window of opportunity... Praise the Lord. He said that in the last days, He would be opening up the way... I would say that this is incredible...Humble accept.

Ahavah · Mar 1, 2005

Beth-el girl said:
to get more exposure. Plus get more material. He's looking into the Seventh day Baptist church. We have none around here. But I am wondering if this is good or bad. It would give us more to work with we could still keep the holy days and maybe this is a good way to teach mainstream Christianity about HIS days and ways. Any ideas on this. He wants us all to be comfortable with it.
Seems like we will still retain the ability to worship how we wish. It just gives us more to work with.

Sorry..I don't do church, nor do I agree with churches who just want to get exposure.

Is it about the Church??? Or is it about Yeshua?
Why do you need to have a BIGGER church to teach anyway?
I don't remember Yeshua going around building churches, or even trying to get exposure. He just WALKED out HIS life, and people followed.
There's nothing wrong with Fellowship or getting together with other believers. But...What ever happened to getting together in other people's homes? Or like they did in ACTs..meeting together EVERY day..not just on ONE special day? :scratch:

visionary · Mar 1, 2005

Yeshua went to the woman at the well by heading into the land of the Samaritans...We are to meet the people where they are at.. and ministered to them.

Let us not forget, we are here to do the work of Yeshua... and that is to go out and saved the lost.... even those who think that they have found Jesus...they need to learn of the truth,...

Ahavah · Mar 1, 2005

visionary said:
Yeshua went to the woman at the well by heading into the land of the Samaritans...We are to meet the people where they are at.. and ministered to them.

I agree. But that doesn't say anything about Expanding churches (buildings)to meet people where they are at.

visionary said:
Let us not forget, we are here to do the work of Yeshua... and that is to go out and saved the lost.... even those who think that they have found Jesus...they need to learn of the truth,...

I agree once again....to go out...To walk the Walk and to expose the lies of HaSatan.
Still...No Churches or Exposure of churches are needed.
It's about People who are called out to Walk the walk. I guess I see to many churches wanting exposure...to show the world what the truth is.
Example. TBN. They have Exposure and are going around the world. I don't deny that Yeshua can't use anything to touch someone, but when you look at the root of it all...it really is about the Church and what it does, and Yeshua is the justifacation of it all.
I'm not trying to come against anyone here...Just my thoughts.

Beth-el girl · Mar 2, 2005

Ahavah said:
Sorry..I don't do church, nor do I agree with churches who just want to get exposure.

Is it about the Church??? Or is it about Yeshua?
Why do you need to have a BIGGER church to teach anyway?
I don't remember Yeshua going around building churches, or even trying to get exposure. He just WALKED out HIS life, and people followed.
There's nothing wrong with Fellowship or getting together with other believers. But...What ever happened to getting together in other people's homes? Or like they did in ACTs..meeting together EVERY day..not just on ONE special day?

UMMM, Sorry but you sound hostile to churches, what would Yeshua do? Would HE want us to try to reach others to bring them into the kingdom or just say forget it and stay in a secluded group? Seems unlike OUR God. It's not about being bigger we like our small group but we want to do the work of our Savoir!There's no other Messianic like us around. We feel led to go to the other Christians and show them the Gospel.
We don't have the ability to give up our jobs, we'd love to but we have to do the best we can. We are commanded to go make disciples and preach the gospel in this day and age you have to get exposure to let people know you're here.
We meet on the Sabbath as it is commanded we have bible study nights too.
Are we supposed to sit back and say we don't care if others haven't heard the message we have to tell people? Teaching about the Holy days and His ways as they are reflections of what is in heaven and what is to come. That is what we're supposed to be following and teaching here on earth. It's not just about praying it will happen. It's about rejoicing IN HIS WORD, WE are to worship and Praise him. Be with others who believe it's the body of believers we want! Not a building or a name. But God could be opening a door to us to reach more of HIS people. Is that wrong?!

Beth-el girl · Mar 2, 2005

visionary said:
Yeshua went to the woman at the well by heading into the land of the Samaritans...We are to meet the people where they are at.. and ministered to them.

Let us not forget, we are here to do the work of Yeshua... and that is to go out and saved the lost.... even those who think that they have found Jesus...they need to learn of the truth,...

I agree Vis,

It feels like it's a door for us. If we don't like it we can get out. There's a BIG need in our town as there are no others with our message. Only one SDA church but none that keep HIS Holy days!I don't think it's good for us to be like a click oh we have this message but we're not sharing! What would Yeshua do? :preach:

Expose the truth of the Gosples and expose Satans lies!

iitb · Mar 2, 2005

The esteem SDAs give to the writings of Ellen White (I think that's her name? :scratch:

) has always concerned me...

visionary · Mar 2, 2005

There is a separation between the believers in the prophetess EG white and the church organisation itself....because the prophetess spoke about the organisation going in the wrong direction in the last days to the point that they would not continue in the light that she was shown....but would turn around and go in the very direction that she warned against.... so her words are manipulated to suit organizational purposes...and it was starting to happen at the end of her life...that is why the SDA organization does not own her writtings... her children do..

She spoke of more light coming....but her purpose was to lead people out of the darkness of her time...

So the manipulative useage that the organization is what most people know.

Beth-el girl · Mar 2, 2005

iitb said:
The esteem SDAs give to the writings of Ellen White (I think that's her name? ) has always concerned me...

Yes they concern me too. I do know a SDA friend who doesn't believe her stuff but still goes to that church. He stuff looked a lot like someone wanting to controll those who went to the church. I know a Messianic Pastor who does this too!

Beth-el girl · Mar 2, 2005

visionary said:
There is a separation between the believers in the prophetess EG white and the church organisation itself....because the prophetess spoke about the organisation going in the wrong direction in the last days to the point that they would not continue in the light that she was shown....but would turn around and go in the very direction that she warned against.... so her words are manipulated to suit organizational purposes...and it was starting to happen at the end of her life...that is why the SDA organization does not own her writtings... her children do..

She spoke of more light coming....but her purpose was to lead people out of the darkness of her time...

So the manipulative useage that the organization is what most people know.

Vis,
My friend says he see this. He said he has been upset because he sees his church giving in to the ways of the world and going the wrong way.

Wakeup2god · Mar 2, 2005

What exactly is it that you want to bring or share? Is it the 'Good News' or is it the understanding of your ways and beliefs? This isn't an attack so please don't missinterpret what I'm saying.

A church I attended many years ago had a Messianic guest speaker. I found it very interesting as he shared about his beliefs as a Jewish believer. There is a place in the church for this teaching, as it helps us relate more to parts of the bible. Now as far as reaching the lost, they need to hear the Good News of Jesus first before they can even begin to relate to the beliefs of Messianic Jews. Revival starts in us as individuals, therefor shouldn't we be spreading the good news first and formost.

Overall a good idea for you to go to mainstream churches and share your faith but not try to impose your traditions. Like Visionary said 'you have a ministry. Win souls.'

Bless you all

Beth-el girl · Mar 2, 2005

Wakeup2god said:
What exactly is it that you want to bring or share? Is it the 'Good News' or is it the understanding of your ways and beliefs? This isn't an attack so please don't missinterpret what I'm saying.

A church I attended many years ago had a Messianic guest speaker. I found it very interesting as he shared about his beliefs as a Jewish believer. There is a place in the church for this teaching, as it helps us relate more to parts of the bible. Now as far as reaching the lost, they need to hear the Good News of Jesus first before they can even begin to relate to the beliefs of Messianic Jews. Revival starts in us as individuals, therefor shouldn't we be spreading the good news first and formost.

Overall a good idea for you to go to mainstream churches and share your faith but not try to impose your traditions. Like Visionary said 'you have a ministry. Win souls.'
Bless you all

We already are a church just trying to get affiliated with others and spread the Gospel 'Good News' of the coming of the kingdom of God and it's the spreading of Our Lords ways and our beliefs of why and how we have come to understand the ways of the bible that people call "Jewish" or the old way are still applicable to us Christians today just as Christians who followed Christ and were his disciples have always done.
So yes we are trying to spread the good news first and foremost but part of that Good News has to do with the kingdom and Our Lords ways as the relate to what goes on in heaven and will one day be reflected here on earth by everyone. But for now it seems it's only done by a few in the overall scheme of the world.

Shimshon · Mar 2, 2005

Beth-el girl said:
UMMM, Sorry but you sound hostile to churches, what would Yeshua do?

Sorry but to us churches sound hostile to Yeshua. And as far as what Yeshua would do and say to those who did not agree with him, and to those who he was trying to reach?

This is what he told the religious rulers of his day:

Yeshua entered the Temple grounds and drove out those who were doing business there, both the merchants and their customers. He upset the desks of the money changers and knocked over the benches of those who were selling pigeons. 13 He said to them, "It has been written, `My house will be called a house of prayer.' But you are making it into a den of robbers!" 14 Blind and lame people came up to him in the Temple, and he healed them. 15 But when the head cohanim and Torah-teachers saw the wonderful things he was doing, and the children crying out in the Temple, "Please deliver us!" to the Son of David, they were furious. 16 They said to him, "Do you hear what they're saying?" Yeshua replied, "Of course! Haven't you ever read, `From the mouth of children and infants you have prepared praise for yourself'?" 17 With that, he left them and went outside the city to Beit-Anyah, where he spent the night.

18 The next morning

23 He went into the Temple area; and as he was teaching, the head cohanim and the elders of the people approached him and demanded, "What s'mikhah do you have that authorizes you to do these things? And who gave you this s'mikhah?"

And he replied, "Then I won't tell you by what s'mikhah I do these things.

Yeshua said to them. "I tell you that the tax-collectors and prostitutes are going into the Kingdom of God ahead of you! 32 ForYochanan came to you showing the path to righteousness, and you wouldn't trust him. The tax-collectors and prostitutes trusted him; but you, even after you saw this, didn't change your minds later and trust him.

Yeshua said to them, "Haven't you ever read in the Tanakh, `The very rock which the builders rejected has become the cornerstone! This has come from ADONAI, and in our eyes it is amazing'? 43 Therefore, I tell you that the Kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to the kind of people that will produce its fruit!"

Whoever falls on this stone will be broken in pieces; but if it falls on him, he will be crushed to powder!" 45 As the head cohanim and the P'rushim listened to his stories, they saw that he was speaking about them.

1 Then Yeshua addressed the crowds and his talmidim: 2 "The Torah-teachers and the P'rushim," he said, "sit in the seat of Moshe. 3 So whatever they tell you, take care to do it. But don't do what they do, because they talk but don't act!

13 "But woe to you hypocritical Torah-teachers and P'rushim! For you are shutting the Kingdom of Heaven in people's faces, neither entering yourselves nor allowing those who wish to enter to do so.

27 "Woe to you hypocritical Torah-teachers and P'rushim! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look fine on the outside but inside are full of dead people's bones and all kinds of rottenness. 28 Likewise, you appear to people from the outside to be good and honest, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and far from Torah. 29 "Woe to you hypocritical Torah-teachers and P'rushim! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the tzaddikim, 30 and you say, `Had we lived when our fathers did, we would never have taken part in killing the prophets.' 31 In this you testify against yourselves that you are worthy descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Go ahead then, finish what your fathers started! 33 "You snakes! Sons of snakes! How can you escape being condemned to Gei Hinnom?

Do you realize what was just described? Yeshua, a man who was NOT recognized by the P'rushim and leadership as having authoirty to even teach, had gone into the Temple and acted like the Owner, casting people out whom the 'authorities' let become established in sinful works within the Temple. Then he proceeds to teach and heal those who need it, doing what was SUPPOSED to be done in his house. The P'rushim wanted to KILL him. But feared a riot.

Yeshua was not accepting of every persons ways, his very word divides people to their soul. People accept or reject it, and what did Yeshua do when they rejected it? Say, it's o.k. you will still be saved? Or, I won't hold it against you because you said "I BELIEVE". You believe WHAT? Yeshua DID alot of things like go into HIS Temple and chase all out who were "trying to be seen and making money to "Better the Kingdom". He ran them out like a roster in a hen house. He didn't just say ,come on guys love me.

Then he refused to answer THE ELDERS

as to where he got his authority. Wow, that's surly submitting to your Elders no? They were NOT his elders. Nor his leaders. But YESHUA is ours, and we are his body. Not the entity that today calls itself the Church.

Next he proceeds to tell them how THEY are causing MANY to enter into Gei Hinnom.

Yet this is the Good News he told those who he was trying to reach;

"The time has come, God's Kingdom is near! Turn to God from your sins and believe the Good News!"

I could post the whole brit hadasha for this section but will leave it with just this one, as it represents the book as a whole. And was the message of all his talmidim. SIN NOT by grace through faith and receive righteousness and salvation. Or you will perish.

What would Yeshua do? He would do the will of YHWH no matter WHO was leading otherwise. And he would let you know your error so you could TURN from it and to his grace and be saved.

Sephania · Mar 2, 2005

Beth-el girl said:
UMMM, Sorry but you sound hostile to churches, what would Yeshua do? Would HE want us to try to reach others to bring them into the kingdom or just say forget it and stay in a secluded group? Seems unlike OUR God. It's not about being bigger we like our small group but we want to do the work of our Savoir!There's no other Messianic like us around. We feel led to go to the other Christians and show them the Gospel.
We don't have the ability to give up our jobs, we'd love to but we have to do the best we can. We are commanded to go make disciples and preach the gospel in this day and age you have to get exposure to let people know you're here.
We meet on the Sabbath as it is commanded we have bible study nights too.
Are we supposed to sit back and say we don't care if others haven't heard the message we have to tell people? Teaching about the Holy days and His ways as they are reflections of what is in heaven and what is to come. That is what we're supposed to be following and teaching here on earth. It's not just about praying it will happen. It's about rejoicing IN HIS WORD, WE are to worship and Praise him. Be with others who believe it's the body of believers we want! Not a building or a name. But God could be opening a door to us to reach more of HIS people. Is that wrong?!

You keep saying "What would Yeshua do?" like he would sanction things that aren't of him or His father.

We feel led to go to the other Christians and show them the Gospel.

Of course the job is to bring others into the kingdom, or at least preach the good news about it, but you are going into a church to do that? A Christian church? How can you teach them what they think they already know? And if they do know the truth they wouldn't still be there.

We don't have the ability to give up our jobs, we'd love to but we have to do the best we can.

You don't have the ability? Someone is forcibly keeping you in your job? WWYD? He said:

No one can be slave to two masters; for he will either hate the first and love the second, or scorn the second and be loyal to the first. You can't be a slave to both God and money.
25 "Therefore, I tell you, don't worry about your life -- what you will eat or drink; or about your body -- what you will wear. Isn't life more than food and the body more than clothing? 26 Look at the birds flying about! They neither plant nor harvest, nor do they gather food into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Aren't you worth more than they are? 27 Can any of you by worrying add a single hour to his life? 28 "And why be anxious about clothing? Think about the fields of wild irises, and how they grow. They neither work nor spin thread, 29 yet I tell you that not even Shlomo in all his glory was clothed as beautifully as one of these. 30 If this is how God clothes grass in the field -- which is here today and gone tomorrow, thrown in an oven -- won't he much more clothe you? What little trust you have! 31 "So don't be anxious, asking, `What will we eat?,' `What will we drink?' or `How will we be clothed?' 32 For it is the pagans who set their hearts on all these things. Your heavenly Father knows you need them all. 33 But seek first his Kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34 Don't worry about tomorrow -- tomorrow will worry about itself! Today has enough tsuris already!

Are we supposed to sit back and say we don't care if others haven't heard the message we have to tell people?

Have you been given this instruction by HaShem or is this something You want to do? If he is leading you somewhere then follow but I don't see that with your words, I see more like, "We have the truth and we have to go preach it to the church because they don't know the gospel". You can't do that from inside, he tells those to come out, not go in, or remain in.

Do you have a Bible book store? Do they have a BB that you can put a notice on? Do a "cell" meeting in your home, start with offering the teaching on Passover and how Yeshua was the Passover lamb. Yeshua knows whose heart he has prepared and he will get them to you in miraculous ways if need be. It's when we try to outthink him that things get messed up.

Ahavah · Mar 2, 2005

Right on Zayit!!!!!!

Right on Shimshon!!!!

visionary · Mar 2, 2005

Do I go in and teach... or do I go to the door and say come out?.....Is this what you are saying?.... Paul stood in the midst of the pagen philophosy debate corner where there was an altar to the unknown god that they worshipped and from there, pointed to the true God, that they are unknowingly worshipping... there is a time and place and people for both...let those who are called to go in... go in... and those who are called to go out from the midst of her leave....

There will be two witnesses in the camp... while the other prophets are on Mount Sinai receiving the spirit upon them...we are not to see a problem with those who are out in the crowd...for that is where you find the seeking souls.

Shimshon · Mar 2, 2005

Visionary, I guess your going to have to produce testimony where YHWH said he would ordain ANOTHER physical Temple or temples where his body was to worship and be taught. I see no authority from YHWH in the churches of today. Only wicked twisting of his words. YES many WILL, are and have come OUT of the church to the Truth.

But just as Shaul showed how Yeshua's authority superceeded the authority given by the Torah of Moshe (Hebrews). And just as he 'turned' away from speaking to the Jew in their man made, ritual filled "synagogues" because they REJECTED the Truth about eternal life. So too I believe he would walk right out of todays churchs when they reject the Truth he would give them, in opposition to the existing doctrinal structures they SAY are YHWH ordained.

46 However, Sha'ul and Bar-Nabba answered boldly: "It was necessary that God's word be spoken first to you. But since you are rejecting it and are judging yourselves unworthy of eternal life - why, we're turning to the Goyim!

Sephania · Mar 2, 2005

visionary said:
Do I go in and teach... or do I go to the door and say come out?.....Is this what you are saying?.... Paul stood in the midst of the pagen philophosy debate corner where there was an altar to the unknown god that they worshipped and from there, pointed to the true God, that they are unknowingly worshipping... there is a time and place and people for both...let those who are called to go in... go in... and those who are called to go out from the midst of her leave....

There will be two witnesses in the camp... while the other prophets are on Mount Sinai receiving the spirit upon them...we are not to see a problem with those who are out in the crowd...for that is where you find the seeking souls.

Of course not, I dont' recommend anyone go into a Church unless invited to share what you know as truth, otherwise your words will fall on deaf ears. Nor am I saying to go to the door and say come out, that is the Ruachs job, not mine. What I was saying is to prepare a place for those he would call out, give them a place to learn.

The only thing that can happen should you go into a church and tell them they got it all wrong is for them to kick you out on your "Judaizing keister", for that is how you will be perceived.

remember, there is a way which seems right for a man, and this means even those who think they are doing the work of the kingdom. Check out your Christian TV programs, they all believe that they are glorifying G-d with the things they do.
Regrading Paul: So you are equating todays churches with Paul's time and in the midst of all the idols of Athens?

He did not go in to them but rather was in an area speaking in his own corner and was overheard by the philosophers of the time and they asked him to speak with them on the "new teaching". It was an outside open echumentical area where anyone could have his say.

16 While Sha'ul was waiting for them in Athens, his spirit within him was disturbed at the sight of the city full of idols. 17 So he began holding discussions in the synagogue with the Jews and the "God-fearers," and in the market square every day with the people who happened to be there. 18 Also a group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers started meeting with him. Some asked, "What is this babbler trying to say?" Others, because he proclaimed the Good News about Yeshua and the resurrection, said, "He sounds like a propagandist for foreign gods." 19 They took and brought him before the High Council, saying, "May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting? 20 Some of the things we are hearing from you strike us as strange, and we would like to know what they mean." 21 (All the Athenians and the foreigners living there used to spend their spare time talking or hearing about the latest intellectual fads.)

They asked him, he did not push in on their worship to tell them what they were doing wrong.

Paul was there not originally to preach, but awaiting Silas and Timothy, but the Spirit moved within him and he went to the synogogue first.

Here's a picture http://www.bibleplaces.com/athens.htm

visionary · Mar 2, 2005

Zayit said:
Of course not, I dont' recommend anyone go into a Church unless invited to share what you know as truth, otherwise your words will fall on deaf ears. Nor am I saying to go to the door and say come out, that is the Ruachs job, not mine. What I was saying is to prepare a place for those he would call out, give them a place to learn.

The only thing that can happen should you go into a church and tell them they got it all wrong is for them to kick you out on your "Judaizing keister", for that is how you will be perceived.

remember, there is a way which seems right for a man, and this means even those who think they are doing the work of the kingdom. Check out your Christian TV programs, they all believe that they are glorifying G-d with the things they do.
Regrading Paul: So you are equating todays churches with Paul's time and in the midst of all the idols of Athens?

He did not go in to them but rather was in an area speaking in his own corner and was overheard by the philosophers of the time and they asked him to speak with them on the "new teaching". It was an outside open echumentical area where anyone could have his say.

16 While Sha'ul was waiting for them in Athens, his spirit within him was disturbed at the sight of the city full of idols. 17 So he began holding discussions in the synagogue with the Jews and the "God-fearers," and in the market square every day with the people who happened to be there. 18 Also a group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers started meeting with him. Some asked, "What is this babbler trying to say?" Others, because he proclaimed the Good News about Yeshua and the resurrection, said, "He sounds like a propagandist for foreign gods." 19 They took and brought him before the High Council, saying, "May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting? 20 Some of the things we are hearing from you strike us as strange, and we would like to know what they mean." 21 (All the Athenians and the foreigners living there used to spend their spare time talking or hearing about the latest intellectual fads.)

They asked him, he did not push in on their worship to tell them what they were doing wrong.

Paul was there not originally to preach, but awaiting Silas and Timothy, but the Spirit moved within him and he went to the synogogue first.

Here's a picture http://www.bibleplaces.com/athens.htm

My understanding from the OP is that they have been invited to TEACH...and TEACH we are commission to do..

Matthew 11:1
And it came to pass, when Jesus had made an end of commanding his twelve disciples, he departed thence to teach and to preach in their cities.

As long as they are the ones TEACHING and PREACHING... I see no problem with it....if they get kicked out on their judizing keester... then they can wipe the dist off their feet and move on.

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