Evolutionists

Originally posted by redguard333

Problem: Where did the earth come from?
Hypothesis: I think it evolved, and we did too.
Observation: umm.....
Procedure: Well....
Conclusion: We did evolve.

Am I the only one that sees a hole in that?

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All the old standbys -- straw men attacks, implications that people who "believe in" evolution are unsaved, etc.

Of course I see a hole in it, but since you constructed that out of whole cloth, with no actual reference to any real scientific studies or any comprehension of the theory of evolution whatsoever, it doesn't mean anything one way or the other.

A few pointers:
1. The Theory of Evolution has nothing to do with the Big Bang Theory or the origin of the Earth.
2. The ToE has been used to form additional hypothesis which turned out to be true, and also the research has led to great advances in every form of science, including chemistry, biology, cancer research, antibiotic development, etc. etc. etc.

But of course it is futile to debate this issue at all, because if you believe that something is anti-Christian you're not going to believe it no matter how much proof you are presented with.

I usually don't read evolution threads but since this had 0 responses yet I figured it was safe

-Chris

Why are you a Christian? Obviously it hasn't brought you peace.

If you think it's going to be 'sooooo funny' when we are thrown into the lake of fire, it's quite likely that god will toss you in with us heathens. You obviously relish the suffering of others.

See you in the underworld!

Can we please have an evolution/creation board here?

We're thinking about it.

Call us ignorant if you wish, but one day, when you face God, it's gonna be soooooo funny.

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The idea that you can laugh at, or perhaps even enjoy, the eternal damnation of others is horrifically disturbing.

I apologize for being unChristian about this but it's so freakin old!!!!!

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Think about the medium through which you're presenting this. If you're actually sincere about your apology, there's a buttom labeled "backspace" just above the enter buttom.

If they don't believe in creation now, they won't later, so there's no use arguing!!

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Suppose you're wrong. Suppose God is big enough to change any heart, no matter how hardened. Then what?

We've done our part and witnessed to them, their blood will not be on our hands.

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-wipes sweat off of brow- Shew, I'm sure glad our witnessing is done. It was getting downright unenjoyable, witnessing to all of those heathens. Well, at least now their blood isn't on our hands when they face eternal torture. I told 'em so.*

"Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God..." -1 John 4:7

-jon

For the record:

1. Rhetoric against an evolutionist never works.
2. "Evolution" often first needs to be defined before one confronts it. The reas is, it is often a confusing grouping of two incompatible parts: micro with macro evolution; and micro de-evolution. Micro de-evolution is provable - even by math; but evolution which requires the addition of new information remains impossible - even by mathmatical standards - no matter if it is micro or macro.

For the record:

1. Rhetoric against an evolutionist never works.
2. "Evolution" often first needs to be defined before one confronts it. The reason is, it is often a confusing grouping of two incompatible parts: micro with macro evolution; and micro de-evolution. Micro de-evolution is provable - even by math; but evolution which requires the addition of new information remains impossible - even by mathmatical standards - no matter if it is micro or macro.

For the record:

1. Rhetoric against an evolutionist never works.
2. "Evolution" often first needs to be defined before one confronts it. The reason is, it is often a confusing grouping of two incompatible parts: micro with macro evolution, and micro de-evolution. Micro de-evolution is provable and has been proven - even by math; but micro and macro evolution requires the addition of new information - a mathematical impossibility.

Originally posted by Josephus
For the record:

1. Rhetoric against an evolutionist never works.
2. "Evolution" often first needs to be defined before one confronts it. The reas is, it is often a confusing grouping of two incompatible parts: micro with macro evolution; and micro de-evolution. Micro de-evolution is provable - even by math; but evolution which requires the addition of new information remains impossible - even by mathmatical standards - no matter if it is micro or macro.

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I don't quite understand what you mean by "evolution which requires the addition of new information remains impossible - even by mathematical standards". What do you mean by "new information"?

It is very educational to look at "genetic algorithms"; if you gradually change the selection criteria you use to favor one algorithm over another, you end up with complexity and diversity similar to what we see in real-world ecosystems.

What is de-evolution? Is it like "reverse-discrimination". Any discrimination is discrimination, period. Just as any change in the allele frequency over time in a population of organisms is evolution - period. There is no such thing as de-evolution. And what exactly is the distinction between micro-evolution and macro-evolution. Is that like the difference between a warm day and a hot day? I have NEVER seen the prefixes mircro and macro attached to the word evolution except by creationists.

We've done our part and witnessed to them, their blood will not be on our hands.

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And just whose hand will our blood be on? The all-loving God of creation?

Whatever...

I would like to ask a simple question and I am hoping that it won't sound like I am a complete moron. (I might be, but that is a different thread )

Anyway, the way I understand it, there was nothing anywhere except maybe an atom or something. One day, this atom just up and blew up. Instant universe. Now, we have perfectly (almost) round planets that were formed in this explosion. And a sun. (How was it decided that one would be a sun and the rest plain planets?) One planet, Earth, just happened to stop at just the right distance from the sun to support life. And low and behold, there was life on it. Well, of course, the "life" on Earth was just an amoeba or something, but over billions of years, that amoeba evolved up to what is today a human being. Never mind the fact that apparently evolution has now stopped. Why is that, do you suppose?

This may sound slightly sarcastic. For that, I apologize, but it just seem to me to be too much of a stretch to believe in evolution. To me it is much easier to believe that God did it just exactly the way He said it in the Bible.

cheezit: I suggest you read up on the big bang theory and the theory of evolution. Whether their correct or not, creationists must understand them to some degree before attempting to discuss them. Also realize that the two are very seperate ideas.

Too often creationists make ignorant remarks about concepts they do not understand (this isn't directed at you cheezit, you at least stated that you didn't know much about the big bang theory). If I were an evolutionist I'd be pulling my hair out.

-jon

Originally posted by cheezit
Anyway, the way I understand it, there was nothing anywhere except maybe an atom or something. One day, this atom just up and blew up. Instant universe. Now, we have perfectly (almost) round planets that were formed in this explosion. And a sun. (How was it decided that one would be a sun and the rest plain planets?) One planet, Earth, just happened to stop at just the right distance from the sun to support life. And low and behold, there was life on it. Well, of course, the "life" on Earth was just an amoeba or something, but over billions of years, that amoeba evolved up to what is today a human being. Never mind the fact that apparently evolution has now stopped. Why is that, do you suppose?

This may sound slightly sarcastic. For that, I apologize, but it just seem to me to be too much of a stretch to believe in evolution. To me it is much easier to believe that God did it just exactly the way He said it in the Bible.

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What the universe was like at the beginning of time is unknown. There are indications that it was very compressed area of energy. People often think of the "Big Bang" as an explosion of some sort, but it was not. It was a rapid expansion of space.

Once it expanded and cooled to a certain point, the energy started turning into hydrogen (think of condensation as an analogy). The formula for the conversion of energy to matter is Einstein's famous "E= mc2".

Gravity is one of the forces that affects matter, and hydrogen coalesced into the first stars. This process is well understood, by the way. The first stars formed helium, carbon, and the other larger elements. Countless stars went through this life cycle, eventually spewing their contents in vast supernovas.

Now the universe contained heavy elements. Gravity continued to coalesce matter into stars, but many of the heavy elements coalesced into planets orbiting stars. The law of conservation of angular momentum explains much of the way planets revolve around stars.

That gets you to the Solar System. If you want to get from there to the first life, there are still many unknowns. Life is very complex, much moreso that star formation, and we are still scratching our heads over it. That doesn't mean we'll never have the answers, but simply that we don't have them now.

However, once DNA-based life was formed, the concepts of natural selection and adaptation take over. This is also a fairly well understood process, despite the religious objections you might here.

So if you want to believe in a supernatural God, you still have plenty of room. The creation of the universe is unknown (and may always be), as is the origin of the earliest life on Earth.

So "God created the Universe" and "God created Life" cannot be contradicted scientifically. If that gives people comfort, then more power to them.

Originally posted by seebs

It is very educational to look at "genetic algorithms"; if you gradually change the selection criteria you use to favor one algorithm over another, you end up with complexity and diversity similar to what we see in real-world ecosystems.

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I'm not sure genetic algorithms have much do to with actual evolution.

Basically, there are some problems that cannot be solved by computers because they take too long. One easy example is the "traveling salesman problem" which says that a salesman has to travel to a certain number of cities passing through each one exactly once. The problem asks you to find the shortest possible path. A computer cannot solve this problem except for trying every possible path and then choosing the best one. But even with relatively small numbers like 100 this "brute-force" method takes billions of years to run (even on supercomputers).

So the genetic algorithm takes a number of solutions, say 5000, and then takes a few of the best solutions (say 500). Then it "mates" solutions by combining parts of one with parts of another, and then introduces random mutations into the children. Then the whole process starts again. This works surprisingly well and is fairly fast.

-Chris

>>>See you in the underworld!>>>>





Sounds like you want that?

This is for all the people that believe in evolution. You whine about how we creationists don't use the scientific method, so what we have is just theory, and incorrect theory at that. Well then, since our scientific method is flawed, where is yours? Huh?

Problem: Where did the earth come from?
Hypothesis: I think it evolved, and we did too.
Observation: umm.....
Procedure: Well....
Conclusion: We did evolve.

Am I the only one that sees a hole in that? Look, you believe what you want, we'll believe what we want. Call us ignorant if you wish, but one day, when you face God, it's gonna be soooooo funny. Hey, believe in the big bang? Well....where did the materials that "banged" come from, huh? Yeah. I apologize for being unChristian about this but it's so freakin old!!!!! If they don't believe in creation now, they won't later, so there's no use arguing!! We've done our part and witnessed to them, their blood will not be on our hands.

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Matthew 5:13-15

13 You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men. 14 "You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.

Bah! What did Jesus know!

""""""I apologize for being unChristian about this but it's so freakin old!!!!!""""""""""

You apologize for being unChristian? If you really apologized and were repentent at the time you were typing that you would have decided not to include the derogotary comments in your post. You had this basic idea in your head that what you were saying was sinful but you were going to say it anyways. You were ticked and decided to say to hell with Christian humility. You rebelled against your God and you are still in your sin. I suggest apologizing and asking everyone whom you insulted for forgiveness and asking your God for forgivenss per the requirements of your religion.

"""If they don't believe in creation now, they won't later, so there's no use arguing!!""""

Yup, all believers are born that way. None actually convert through lifes experiences. You were born a Christian? There is no need for you to comply with 1 Pet 3:15? I don't believe the Bible is inerrant but you probably do so for me to dissagree with Peterpresents no problems but for you to is to disagree with God. Of course, you can always come back with the pearls before swine line.

""""""We've done our part and witnessed to them, their blood will not be on our hands."""""""

Your rant served only as a poor witness. If it did anything it drove those who do not know your God further away from him. Their blood is on your hands. I suggest you seek ammends and make restitution.

"""""""when you face God, it's gonna be soooooo funny."""""

Hell is funny? I remember Jesus describing it as weeping and gnashing of teeth. Do you honestly believe your God is going to let you gloat down from heaven with an emphatic "I told you so"? Is that what you want to do? I thought Christians were supposed to serve as Jesus did? He washed his disciples feet didn't he? Didn't he die on the cross for your sins? Doesn't St. Paul accurately portray your beliefs here in these passages:

2 Philippianss 5-8:

5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, 7 but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death-- even death on a cross!

The job of a Christian: serve or slander?

James 1:26 If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless.

Tongue and keyboard are synonymous in this context.

Of course, 4 verse earlier in James tells us you are supposed to be obeying these verses I'm quoting:

22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. 23 Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror 24 and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like.

Do you know what you look like?

Adapting Ephesians 4:29:

29 Do not let any unwholesome typing come out of your keyboards, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who read.

"""""Am I the only one that sees a hole in that?""""""

No, I would think every evolutionist in the world would find holes in your fictional and contrived argument. It does not reflect the reality of the situation one iota.

Joe Nobody

Whoa! Joe Nobody demolishes redguard333! Good post!

When will Christians read their Bible?

*mod hat on* kept it civil people or I'm closing this thread ..this includes ALL of you. *mod hat off*