Originally posted by Augustine
The "charismatic" movement is yet another wicked Protestant deception that has crept it's way into the Catholic Church by way of ecumenism.
The Catholic Church teaches dogmatically, and with certainty, that a person receives the Holy Spirit in Confirmation. He imposes a unique character upon their soul, and abides with them to strengthen them. Holy Baptism and Confirmation are the two unique Sacraments of Christian initiation, which can never be repeated once validly administered. It was these two Sacraments that we read about being given to new Christians in the Bible; Acts 19:4-6.
Charismatics say the "laying on of hands" as they do is repeatable, and is something other than the Sacrament of Confirmation. Indeed the Protestant variety of the Charistmatic movement has no regard for Confirmation, since it does not exist in their sects (they have no valid Bishops to confer it.)
How on earth can a Catholic pervert and twist Catholic Sacramental theology, to justify this novelty? They diminish the worth and uniqueness of real Sacraments, for the voodoo/trance experiences (which are explainable in natural and demonic terms; if you've ever seen footage of voodoo and santeria rituals, and shamanistic practices, you'll know what I mean) and the faux "sacraments" used to induce them.
According to the Scriptures "speaking in tongues" either refers to Saints who go into extacies (like the state St.John was in when he received the book of the Apocalypse), to prophetic utterances (which are genuine; unlike the "Jesus loves us" and other pious platitudes that require no special gift to come up with that I have seen uttered at "charismatic" events), or to the gift of being able to understand and speak unknown languages (as was seen in the opening of the book of Acts, with the Apostles; their tongues were not babbling, but a supernatural gift to speak all of the languages of the earth).
However even the most genuine examples of tongues need some discernment from the Church, since it is known that the devil can also mimic spectacles like this (witness cases in excorcisms where devils speak through a person...the person uttering things they could never have known, even in languages they've never heard.)
I hardly see what a bunch of looney people dancing around, rolling around, and laughing and screeching, has to do with God or His true worship. It looks more like Santeria than anything else.
This is beside the fact that the contemporary charismatic movement is thoroughly Protestant, and began with the wandering preacher Parnum in Topeka KS in the earlier part of the 20th century. It's non-Catholic both in ethos, and origin. It's toleration by the heirarchy is a scandal against the faith.
Augustine,
Are you saying you don't believe in spiritual gifts and miracles? I thought the church always believe in both. Also, please consider this:
When Simon saw that the
Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money (Acts 8:18)
Clearly there's some significance with laying on of hands with some sort of impartation of the Holy Spirit. We see another example of this in 1 Timothy 4:14
Do not neglect your
gift, which was given you through a prophetic message when the body of elders
laid their hands on you. (1 Tim 4:14)
Another example can be found in 2 Timothy 1:6-7
For this reason I remind you to fan into flame the
gift of God, which is in you through the
laying on of my hands. For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of
power, of love and of self-discipline. (2 Tim 1:6-7)
The Greek word for 'gift' is 'charisma' which refers to spiritual gifts.
The Greek word for 'power' in this passage refers to the miraculous as in Acts 6:8 with Stephen doing miracles.
Romans 1:11 also says that Paul wanted to impart a spirtual gift (probably by laying on of hands as mentioned earlier)
Now I don't fully agree with many of the protestant charismatic groups that are (in my opinion) overdoing it. But scripture does say:
Do not quench the Spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:19)
I don't fully understand what that means, but I do konw that my church is real with the gifts of the spirit. I've seen plenty of 'bizarre' stuff on TV and in other churches, but the use of these gifts are done in orderly fashion
-Jason
