BOO to the US Supreme Court!

AlphaPhi · Apr 20, 2002

Speech should be free for those of legal age, with no restrictions.

If Congress had written a law that simply banned inappropriate contentography featuring minors, instead of a law that banned all images of anyone who APPEARS to be underage that deal with sexuality (even movies like "American Pie" would be barred under the just-cancelled law), then it would not have been struck down. Minors cannot consent to participation in a inappropriate contentographic production, and thus such products are not covered under the First Amendment.

As for seeing things you don't want to: Tough. That's how free speech works. You have freedom to speak, not freedom to limit what you hear. You have no right to live your life free from things you don't want to see or hear.

coastie · Apr 20, 2002

Speech should be free for those of legal age, with no restrictions.

Really... even things that are detrimental to your life?

So someone can get on the radio and talk all kinds of trash about you and ruin your credibility and you would say "Oh Well, that's his right."

Heck no! I personally would call the radio station and say "get that guy off the radio or I WILL!"

I could do all kinds of 'what if's' but what I'm saying is that there has to be restrictions, otherwise everyone would go crazy.

As for seeing things you don't want to: Tough. That's how free speech works.

I sort of agree but then I don't. Sometimes, you have to take the good with the bad. That doesn't mean that you should sit back and let the bad stuff happen, just don't let the evil in the world run your life. That is the same as not letting God have control.

You have freedom to speak, not freedom to limit what you hear.

Yes she does. If someone is offending her she has the right to say stop, and if that person doesn't then she can call the police (I'm speaking of some pervert talking trash to her not an offensive blonde joke).

Somethings you have to let go. You can't fight all of the world's battles.

You have no right to live your life free from things you don't want to see or hear.

Yes we do, I would not allow you to impose on me or my children some sexually explicit garbage. I'd just as soon break someone's jaw as let them talk dirty to or around my wife.

May not be right, but I'm being honest.

Susan · Apr 20, 2002

If you lean into a crowded meeting and shout "FIRE!" you have committed a crime.
If you yell "Hi Jack!" at the airport, you will be arrested even if all you meant was a friendly hello to your friend Jack. (this actually happened to someone I heard of)
If you set up your last-minute campaign rally within 100 feet of a polling place, you can get into some serious legal trouble.
If you berate your neighbor with a barrage of obscenities whenever he leaves his home, you can be sued and possibly arrested.
If you call someone a liar and thief, and don't have proof to back that accusation up, it's called slander.
In a society with absolutely free speech, all of these things would be allowable.

However, there is some speech that most people recognize as harmful or wrong.
For instance, say the false fire alarm causes a stampede at the building. Even though the shout of FIRE may have been meant as a joke or a prank, people were hurt.
Or the airport is shut down until the "hijack" is resolved. Although that was meant as a friendly call to someone and not a hijack, many were frightened and some lost their money on cancelled flights, etc.
Can you imagine trying to vote with a loud campaign rally next door? Especially if the speaker is coercive?
Can you equally imagine being the assaulted neighbor? You can't leave your home without being cursed out.
What if someone called you a liar and thief when you weren't? There goes your reputation.

The point is that laws exist to control forms of speech that if free, would only cause harm.
For instance, fire is free. There is no law that says we cannot build a fire. However, we are restricted from starting fires to hurt others; or that pose a high risk of injuring someone else or their property.

H****i has been linked to real life molestations and even murders. It is a form of speech that causes harm. :sick:

coastie · Apr 20, 2002

Susan, I'm not saying that this stuff shoudn't be banned, I'm just saying, don't get your hopes up.

It will take a while, it's not impossible, but you'll have to be patient. I wouldn't stress over it too much.

Susan · Apr 20, 2002

I wasn't trying to persuade you, but the "free speech advocates."

AlphaPhi · Apr 20, 2002

The prohibitions against "fire!" is questionable, but sustainable. The provisions against libel and slander are of course, inherent.

However, I have every right to stand on a street corner and shout what I will. And you have no right to silence me. You have no right not to be called a bad name by your neighbors (such a prude, I personally don't believe in the superstitious nonsense of "bad words").

As for entertainment leading to violent actions... bah humbug. By that rule, we should ban all movies with swearing, violence of any sort, bad driving, ill manners, sex between unmarried people... so on and so forth. That's nonsense.

If someone whose deranged watches some stupid inappropriate contento and gets the idea to go rape a woman, thats not the fault of the video, its his fault for being messed in the head. Punish him. Other people do not react so to such videos, and you have no right to tell them they can't watch them.

You know, people have been watching sitcoms for decades, but it hasn't led to random acts of humor.

coastie · Apr 20, 2002

I agree that is is the act of the person, but how does inappropriate contentography benefit society, or even what practical purpose does it have? The answer to both is none. It does more harm than good, therefore, has no place in a progressive society.

Susan · Apr 20, 2002

Amen.

JohnR7 · Apr 20, 2002

>>even movies like "American Pie" would be barred under the just-cancelled law

Sounds like a good law to me if it could be used to ban movies where the "greatest evil" and the "worst crime known to man" is virginity.

It's just another example of how the Supreme court is trashing this country. Not only this country, but the trash they are producing in unholywood is being exported out to the whole world. It is really difficult for me to determine what does more harm, the export of inappropriate contento or the export of weapons. They both kill people dead as a doornail.

Susan · Apr 20, 2002

Amen again!

JohnR7 · Apr 20, 2002

>>By that rule, we should ban all movies with swearing, violence of any sort, bad driving, ill manners, sex between unmarried people... so on and so forth. That's nonsense.

I do not think that is NONSENSE at all. When Gone With the Wind first came out, it was a major scandal because it had one swear word in it. They still talk about it today. Things have gone downhill quite a bit sense then.

unholywood is destroying many people with their unholy attitude and we really do not have to stand by and watch them march people into hell, without protesting and making an attempt to present the truth to people.

To many so call christians forget just who the enemy is, and the day will come when they will hear the word: "depart from me", because they did not seperate themselves from that ungodlyness.

It's time to preach and teach repentance and seperation from the things that do not place God.

Isaiah 55:7
Let the wicked forsake his way,
And the unrighteous man his thoughts;
Let him return to the Lord,
And He will have mercy on him;
And to our God,
For He will abundantly pardon.

JohnR7 · Apr 20, 2002

>>If you yell "Hi Jack!" at the airport, you will be arrested

Some of those people at the airport are very tense. I guess I don't blame them, they had to work when things were so unsure as to the safty of flying.

Last winter when I flew down to Flordia we had a stop at a airport along the way. I asked the stewardess if I should stay on the plane of get off the plane. She made some comment about how the pilot had not shown up yet, so they were not sure if the plane was going to take off on time or not. I said if the pilot does not show up, can I fly the plane. It was just a joke, but she got really upset about it and threatened to have me thrown in jail.

Susan · Apr 20, 2002

That's my point-some speech is inherently harmful or hazardous.

kern · Apr 20, 2002

Originall posted by Susan

H****i has been linked to real life molestations and even murders. It is a form of speech that causes harm.

Even if this is true, this cannot and should not be grounds for banning a form of speech. The Bible can be "linked" to various murders and other crimes throughout the ages but I'm 100% sure you don't think the Bible should be banned. This is an extreme example, but the actions of a few shouldn't dictate what is acceptable for the majority.

-Chris

Susan · Apr 20, 2002

The Bible has done MUCH more good than bad for society in general, and even more so personally.

H****i has done absolutely NO good for Japanese or American society (or the Internet). On an individual level it causes addiction, bankruptcy, and a lot of divorces, and that is not to mention the crimes.

JohnR7 · Apr 20, 2002

>>Even if this is true, this cannot and should not be grounds for banning a form of speech.

There is no "free" speech in the Kingdom of God. The only language spoken there is the Love Language. What the world calls "free" is not free at all, it is bondage.

Matthew 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Matthew 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

kern · Apr 20, 2002

Originally posted by JohnR7
>>Even if this is true, this cannot and should not be grounds for banning a form of speech.

There is no "free" speech in the Kingdom of God. The only language spoken there is the Love Language. What the world calls "free" is not free at all, it is bondage.

Matthew 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Matthew 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

All that rhetoric and scripture doesn't change the fact that there is free speech in America. It's the 1st amendment, and it's fundamental to the society. I don't think we're going to be able to come to an agreement on this, but I absolutely reject any system whereby the government can censor or ban material based on its worth to society, or the "good" or "evil" it has caused (and contrary to what Susan says the effects of inappropriate contentography on people are still largely unknown -- I have read recent studies that seem to indicate that only inappropriate contentography with aggressive or violent undertones contributes to increased aggression in viewers.)

You might like a country where the government was run by Christians and the laws were based on Christianity. But that's not the country we live in, and I don't think it's fair to all the non-Christians in the US to behave as if we did. That's not the way to win people to the faith.

Susan · Apr 20, 2002

"Aggressive and violent undertones" ?????

Then you should be wanting the ban on h****i too!

Susan · Apr 21, 2002

h****i is garbage.
it is not free speech.
someone hosting a rally telling people how to commit murder and encouraging them to do so would be guilty if anyone present later followed the advice.
that would not be free speech, it would be a crime.
h****i causes crime and violence. it should be illegal.

AlphaPhi · Apr 21, 2002

If ten people can watch something, and not commit a crime, but one person watches it and does, does that mean that the entertainment itself is bad? No. It means there's something wrong with the person who is led to violence.

If you don't like free speech, and you would force everyone to live by prudish pseudo-Christian mores, then get out of America. Here we have free speech. We can swear if we want to, it doesn't hurt anyone. We can speak against our political leaders. We can produce plays with important themes, even if religious prudes find them "offensive." We can even rail against your God if we so choose. This is our right, and you have no place telling us that we can't.

The same freedom of speech that allows fundies to spread their so-called gospel protects the right of Hollywood (not the spelling) to produce films that intelligent people find intriguing, even if religious ninnies find them "unholy."

BOO to the US Supreme Court!

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