Originally posted by GW
You are stuck:
Since Romans 8:21-25 = Romans 8:14=17
AND since Romans 8:14-17 = Galatians 4:1-11
THEREFORE Romans 8:21-25 = Galatians 4:1-11[/b]
Brother you cannot escape this fact. Romans 8:21-25 IS Galatians 4:1-11 and speaks of bondage to the Law of Moses and being redeemed OUT from that. Sorry. There is no way around logic provided to us in the scriptures themselves. Let scripture interpret scripture.
actually GW your still wrong, and i am not stuck at all! YOU have a time contradiction on your hands.
Romans 8:14-17
For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear,
but you have received the SPIRIT of sonship. When we cry, "Abba! Father!" it is the Spirit himself bearing witness with our spirit that we ARE children of God, and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that
we may also be glorified with him.
Romans 8:21-25
because the creation itself
will be set free from its
bondage to decay and obtain the glorious liberty of the children of God. We know that the whole creation has been groaning in travail together
until now ; and not only the creation, but we ourselves,
who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as
we wait for adoption as sons,
the redemption of our bodies. For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.
i see nothing here but a confirmation of what i have been saying all along, we HAVE spiritual redemption(
"but you have received the SPIRIT of sonship.")
we physically
"we wait for adoption as sons,
the redemption of our bodies"(body).) which is the resurrection.
anyone in the new covenant pre 70 was already free from the law
Romans 7:4-7
Likewise, my brethren,
you have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead in order that we may bear fruit for God. While we
were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death.
But NOW we are discharged from the law , dead to that which held us captive, so that
we serve not under the old written code but in the new life of the Spirit . What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet,
if it had not been for the law, I should not have known sin. I should not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, "You shall not covet."
you keep saying Paul kept the law post cross as an obligation, Paul's own words rebut you thoroughly
1 Corinthians 9:20
To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews; to those under the law I became as one under the law--though not being myself under the law -- that I might win those under the law.
the tense thing kills you every time GW.
in fact YOU yourself are proof i am right! do you have the spirit of God? if so then you have the "spirit of sonship" just like Paul did pre70ad, are you in your glorified immortal, imperishable body? if not then you are waiting on physical sonship just as Paul was pre70ad!
the spiritual kingdom came with the gospel and the cross. it works now just like it did then