Protestant/Catholic

To Hoonbaba:

ALL Christians are members of the Body of Christ. While the Catholic Church teaches it is the original Church established by Jesus, it considers our Protestant brothers and sisters to still be Christians, just not in full fellowship with the Church, and they do not avail themselves of all the sacraments.

The Christian baptism (with water, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit) places an indelible mark upon a person's soul, and it is valid whether or not you were baptized in a Methodist, Presbyterian, Baptist, or even <gasp!> Catholic Church. There are some Christian denominations which do not consider a Catholic baptism to be "valid," since it may not be by complete immersion. That is their teaching, but the Catholic Church accepts ANY Christian baptism. In the case of an adult convert who may have been baptized as a child 'to make Mom and Dad happy,' the Church will perform something called a "conditional" baptism, recogizing the validity of the original baptism, yet also acknowledging the dedication of the convert to the new faith.

There are three baptisms recognized by the Church: Baptism of Water (the "usual" type), Baptism of Blood (the death of a martyr for the faith, before a traditional baptism can occur), and Baptism of Desire. Someone who has never been baptized yet is studying the Catholic faith with the intention of conversion is considered to be Baptized with the desire to know Christ, should an untimely demise occur before the formal acceptance into the Church.


Peace be with you,
~VOW

It should be noted that the Church only recognizes Baptism in the Triune formula "I baptize you in the name of the Father, and the Son and the Holy Spirit." Baptisms that do not use the Trinity formula are not valid (Oneness Pentacostal baptisms, for example).

Kirk

If you are re-baptised, as in from Catholicism to Lutheran do you become un-saved if the holy trinity is not used?

No, because the first baptism, if it it using the correct Trinitarian formula, is valid and the second one, if it is not, is not.

No Lutheran church I'm aware of would re-baptize a Catholic convert who was baptized in a trinitarian formula.

The Church baptizes mostly infants, so no, they usually do not do full immersion. When adults are baptized, it is usually by the pouring of water across the forehead, though when possible, the Church prefers to do full immersion.

To Hoonbaba:

So basically, non-Catholics Christians are just missing out?

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Exactly. Of course, THEY don't see it that way, but the Catholic Church grieves for all who are not in full fellowship.


Peace be with you,
~VOW

You have it!!! It is definitely a different kind of "full fellowship" and until you start searching, you may not even realize that is what is missing....

Re: Communion/Eucharist - yes!!! It is one body - world-wide, in Heaven and on Earth!!! It is truly fascinating!!! The whole idea of Transubstantiation & associated concepts are really deep, but so rich and fascinating!!!

Jason,

You asked, "But is that to say a non-Christian can baptize another non-Christian as long as the baptism in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit?? =)"

Here is the answer from the Catechism of the Catholic Church:


V. WHO CAN BAPTIZE?

1256 The ordinary ministers of Baptism are the bishop and priest and, in the Latin Church,
also the deacon.[57] In case of necessity, any person, even someone not baptized, can
baptize, if he has the required intention. The intention required is to will to do what the Church does when she baptizes, and to apply the Trinitarian baptismal formula. The Church finds the reason for this possibility in the universal saving will of God and the necessity of Baptism for salvation.[58]

And..."Also, the Catholic Church doesn't do full immersion for water baptism?"

1239 ...Baptism... signifies and
actually brings about death to sin and entry into the life of the Most Holy Trinity through
configuration to the Paschal mystery of Christ. Baptism is performed in the most expressive
way by triple immersion in the baptismal water. However, from ancient times it has also been
able to be conferred by pouring the water three times over the candidate's head.

I hope these references helped.

I went through RCIA last year and enjoyed it. I had two great priests who became my friends, as well as Fathers, and who took a great interest in me and everyone else in the program. The program will really be what you make of it. If you study like you are doing, then you will have good questions to bring into the class, and the discussions will be fruitful. Some people sat there quietly, then quit coming. I know a few were just scared to be back in Church. I pray that they make keep walking those same baby-steps they started.

Thanks to EVERYONE who's posted and helped me learn about my faith.

Sincerely,

Neal

Originally posted by Hoonbaba
But unlike the long wait for heaven, I can experience communion a lot earlier =)

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For me, as a Catholic, Communion is IT. The Real Presence is reason enough alone to become Catholic. The very thought that Jesus loved us so much, understood us so well, He gave us a way to be physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually nourished with His Actual Body and Actual Blood is a concept that leaves me breathless. I LIVE for the Consecration of the Mass, when the priest elevates the Bread, and the Wine, and I know the Miracle of Transubstantiation occurs.

I have a book called "Creeds of the Churches" and when I read the creeds of different Protestant faiths where they actually make a special point of saying that "transubstantiation is abhorrent," I wanted to cry. That people would WILLINGLY put a distance between themselves and Christ is heartbreaking.


Peace be with you,
~VOW

If you are re-baptised, as in from Catholicism to Lutheran do you become un-saved if the holy trinity is not used?


As has been pointed out you would not need to be rebaptized.. and also the Lutheran Church baptizes in the Name of the Father,Son and Holy Spirit.

Michelle

A personal question here, but has anyone ever cried or gotten teary eyed at the consecration?

Originally posted by isshinwhat
A personal question here, but has anyone ever cried or gotten teary eyed at the consecration?

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Quite often. Especially as I realize more and more what it really means.

I went to the Palm Sunday Mass at the Cathedral of the Incarnation in Nashville. It was a beautiful Mass, but the part that really got me was the dialouge when the Congregation says the words of the crowd. Saying those words made me realize how horrible the scene must have been..."Crucify Him!" Staring at the life-size Crucifix with Mary and John at the foot placed me there in a way I hadn't been before. The concecration after that was very special to me. I really felt healed.

I'm glad to hear Amy's in the same boat and I'm not the only one who tunes up from time to time!

With the Love of Christ,

Neal

Originally posted by VOW
ALL Christians are members of the Body of Christ. While the Catholic Church teaches it is the original Church established by Jesus, it considers our Protestant brothers and sisters to still be Christians, just not in full fellowship with the Church, and they do not avail themselves of all the sacraments.

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Originally posted by VOW
To Hoonbaba:

Exactly. Of course, THEY don't see it that way, but the Catholic Church grieves for all who are not in full fellowship.

Peace be with you,
~VOW

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I'm in full fellowship with God. It was tht way for a while when searching for a church.

I'm sorry, but when I read something I disagree with, I have to speak my mind. I don't want to start an argument, but I am in fellowship with God and that's what I think is more important. I'm trying my best to give my full heart to Him and I think that's more important than any tradions or sacraments in any denomination.

Originally posted by VOW
For me, as a Catholic, Communion is IT. The Real Presence is reason enough alone to become Catholic. The very thought that Jesus loved us so much, understood us so well, He gave us a way to be physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually nourished with His Actual Body and Actual Blood is a concept that leaves me breathless. I LIVE for the Consecration of the Mass, when the priest elevates the Bread, and the Wine, and I know the Miracle of Transubstantiation occurs.

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Vow, thank you for saying that. It is the reason I returned to Catholicism (well, sort of). While I cannot agree with (nor have I ever agreed with) all Catholic beliefs, this is the key reason for staying in Catholicism.