Coming Russian Nuclear Sneak Attack on America !!!! (bible prophecy)

Haha. American Babylon huh? Have you ever heard of Hermeneutics? Simply pulling a baby (prophecy) out of its crib (Historical significance) and fitting it to some idea you have is false. In 20 years we will say its someone else who "seems" to fit it. Let scripture dictate who Babylon is and that's simple, "Babylon". Not New York, not Berlin, not anything that seems to just fit with the "time". Leave the baby in the crib.

Have it your way, but when millions of Chinease and Mexicans start pouring over your borders in a few years you may well be humbled and realise that God is not quite as you thought.......the arrogance of America never ceases to amaze me, it my eyes it's like watching lambs going to the slaughter....
Read the stipulations of Babylon and honestly try to put it into any context. America fulfills all criteria, and now the political situation fits the glove as well.

JT said:

Have it your way, but when millions of Chinease and Mexicans start pouring over your borders in a few years you may well be humbled and realise that God is not quite as you thought.......the arrogance of America never ceases to amaze me, it my eyes it's like watching lambs going to the slaughter....
Read the stipulations of Babylon and honestly try to put it into any context. America fulfills all criteria, and now the political situation fits the glove as well.

Click to expand...

My maternal grandparents, (along with their parents and siblings), immigrated to the United Stated from Mexico in 1920 to escape from a revolution (at the time of Pancho Villa) and for the purpose of finding a better life.

We're all immigrants to this nations ("a melting pot") and, unless you are native American, your family has not really been in this country for all that much longer than mine.

~Sandy

I meant in a war scenario. China / Russia from the north and China / Mexico from the south. That's how it will likely happen.

Oh, I misunderstood.

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###I agree that Iraq is where Babylon of the future is.
Back up to v. 21 in Daniel 11 though.
^then shall stand up
^vile person
###
I disagree with your interpreation of Daniel 11:21

Dan 11:21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person....

This does not refer to the Ant-Christ but to Antichus IV, called Epiphanes, the Illustrious, who reigned 175-163 B.C. All of v 21-24 refers to him. Several details are given concerning things which the last Syrian king, the Anti-Christ, will also do. But here I do not believe this refers to the Anti-Christ. Just as many prophecies about the Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon refer to the man himself and not Satan.



###Another way to tell Iraq must rule the nations is Jer. 25:11-12.
There we are told the Babylonians are rulers for 70 years and only after the 70 years comes to pass can that land be made perpetually desolate.###


Again, I disagree with you.

Jer 25:11 And this whole land shall be a desolation, and an astonishment; and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years.

This was the whole length of the captivity of the Jews to Babylon. After this Babylon was to be overthrown and the Jews were to return to their own land (v11-12; 29:10; Dan 9:2; Zech 7:5)

Jer 25:12 And it shall come to pass, when seventy years are accomplished, that I will punish the king of Babylon, and that nation, saith the LORD, for their iniquity, and the land of the Chaldeans, and will make it perpetual desolations.

First. "... And it shall come to pass, when seventy years are accomplished,"

This was FULLFILLED completely in Daniel 5, mostly v5.

Dan 5:5 "In the same hour came forth fingers of a man's hand..."

The hour at the height of the revelry at the feast when idols were praised and the sacred vessels of the true God were desecrated. The hour to end the 70 years captivity and for God to deliver His chosen people so that their nation might be restored (Daniel 9:24-27; Jer 25)



##So far -605 B.C. started the prophecy.........time clocked till Oct. of 539 B.C.##

I do not agree with putting dates and times on when the end shall come. Even Christ did not know the time, do you? If all it takes is putting prophecy to a count down, Christ would know this. Thus, he and the Father would both know. But he didn't, just the Father did.

Mar 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.


##As in Jer. 50-51 it tells as a warning to Babylon that first her mother ^mystery, Babylon will be sore confounded.##

Lets look at Mystery Babylon and who it is.

10 proofs the harlot (Mystery Babylon, Rev 17:11) is a religious system

1. Playing the harlot in symbolic language always refers to a religious fornication and idolatry (v 1-4; Isa 23:17; 57:3-7; Jer 3:2-9; Ezek 16:1-63; 20:30-32; 23:7-49; Hos 4:12-19; Nah 3:4. Literal fornication must also be understood in some of these.)

2. Her causing the many nations to commit fornication with her, proves the idolatrous religious practices are being referred to, as in passages above.

3. She is not a political power for she is not classed as one with "the kings of earth". She only causes the kings and inhabitants of the earth to be drunk with the win of her fornication (v2,4). Since fornication here refers to religious harlotry then her influence over the nations is through religion.

4. The beast which the women rides is the 8th kingdom, made up of the waters or people inside the old Roman Empire Territory (v1, 3, 11, 15) Since the beast itself is the Kingdom, the women must be religion dominating the kingdom until she is destroyed by it (vs 12-17)

5. The attire of the great harlot identifies her as a religious system or as a harlot committing spiritual fornication, duping political powers by her whordoms and idolatries (v4). The purple, scarlet, precious stones, pearls, and golden vessels, indicate the wealth of the great system (Zek 23:29-31)

6. The golden cup in her hand, full of her uncleanness, spiritual fornication, and abominations by which she dupes political powers proves her to be a religious system .

7. Her name MYSTERY BABYLON indicates she IS NOT literal Babylon. The word mystery identifies her with the religious rites and mysteries of ancient Babylon. NOTE!!!!

--- According to Hislop's "The Two Babylons" which quotes 260 sources, the ancient Babylonian cult, started by Nimrod and his queen, Semiramis, spread among all nations. The objects of worship were Surpeme Father, The Incarnate Female, or Queen of the Heaven, and her son. The cult claimed the highest wisdom and the most divine secrets. Besides confession to priests there were many mysterious rites. Julius Caesar became head of the Roman branch of the Babylonian Cult in 63 B.C. Other emperors held the office until 376 A.D. when the emperor Gratian, for Christian reasons refused it because he saw that Babylonianism was idolatrous, Demasus, bishop of the Christian church at Rome, was elected to the headship in 278 A.D. and from here on Babylonianism and organized Christianity became one. The rites of Babylon were soon introduced into the Christian church. Heathen temples were restored, beautified and their rituals encouraged. Worship and veneration of images, saints, relics, private confessions, penance, scourging, pilgrimages, sign of the cross, Christmas, Lady Day, Easter, Lent and other pagan rites and festivals, little by little, became part of Christian worship.

8. The name of MOTHER OF HARLOTS identifies the harlot as a religious system (v.5). The harlots refer to many branches which have spung from her and have become a much apostate as the great harlot herself. She is a symbol of apostate religions being linked together after the rapture of the church to dominate the 10 kings of the Revised Roman Empire until the Anti-Christ comes to full power over the 10 Kingdoms by the middle of Daniels 70th week (v1, 3, 9-17)

9. The name MOTHER OF ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH identifies her to be a religious system fostering and tolerating all the abominations that go with idolatry and spiritual fornication. The word abominations is used many times of idolatry and whoredoms associated with pagan worship (Dt 18:9-12; 29-17-18; 32:16-17; 1 Ki 14:24; 2 Ki 16:3-4 etc..)

10. The women sits on the beast itself, not on the heads and horns in succession . The 7 heads and 10 horns on the beast are a part of him and this is the only sense in which she rides the heads. Since the beast is the 8th world empire (v11). It is clear that she is something separate from empire, and only rides or dominates the peoples of that empire. What could she be other then religion?

Most people agree that Revelation 17 refers to a religious system.

But what of Revelation 18?


Revelation 18:2 – “And he cried mightily with a loud voice, saying, “Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and has become a dwelling place of demons, a prison for every foul spirit, and a cage for every unclean and hated bird!”


Revelation 18:8 - “Therefore her plagues will come in one day—death and mourning and famine. And she will be utterly burned with fire, for strong is the Lord God who judges her.”


Revelation 18:17,19 - ‘For in one hour such great riches came to nothing.’ Every shipmaster, all who travel by ship, sailors, and as many as trade on the sea, stood at a distance . . . 19 “They threw dust on their heads and cried out, weeping and wailing, and saying, ‘Alas, alas, that great city, in which all who had ships on the sea became rich by her wealth! For in one hour she is made desolate.’”


Where is this then?

I have also copied this from a website - I cannot remember the URL - 38 charachteristics of Babylon.


38 Characteristics of Babylon
Why it can be neither Rome nor Iraq

The following information is taken from articles by R.A. Coombes



#1. The chief city of Babylon is a "DEEP WATER PORT CITY"!!! Revelation 18: 17-19. This passage tells us that merchant ships are standing off the shoreline of Babylon.
In this day and age, especially by virtue of the list of commodities that are traded in "Babylon the Great"… see Revelation 18:11-13… one thing can be noted… this city to have this kind of merchandise coming in by ships…must be a DEEP WATER SEAPORT CITY.
Now here is the problem for the Rome = Babylon theorists. Rome is not a deepwater seaport, period!!! Ancient Rome, we are told must be the only literal interpretation. Ancient Babylon, we are told must be the only literal interpretation. However, ancient Babylon is 200 miles from the Persian Gulf.

#2. It is the KEY Commercial Nation and Engine of Wealth for the World’s Economy. Isaiah 47:15. Revelation 17:2; Revelation 18: 3, 9, 11-13, 15, 16, 17-19, 22, 23, & 19:2. Here in these passages we see just what relationship Babylon enjoys with the rest of the world. Here she is clearly the critical factor in the world economy. tell us???
Now, Rome (or Italy) or Iraq does NOT and CAN NOT fit that role…

#3. These are all commodities in a list that are the chief trading products as cited in Rev 18:11-13 for which the merchants and sailors later lament that no one will buy their products anymore! Rev 18:12-13 provides a list of Gold, Silver and Copper. Now on these items alone… there is more Gold traded in New York City on the COMEX in one day than in all the rest of the world, combined !!! The same is true for Silver and Copper also.
Iraq plays no such role in the world economy. She is too poor to do so.

#4. Leading center of imports and consumption. Revelation 18: 11, 17-19. These passages tell us the economic picture of this nation. Note that this nation is not only involved in the trade of these products, but that she is also the leading importer… because when she is destroyed…"no one buys"… their merchandise anymore. The folks lamenting are the international merchants who export goods to this mystery Babylon. Therefore, she is the leading import nation. She also then is by virtue of her importer status… the chief consuming nation. This also is not a description of Rome or Italy.

#5. She is also a manufacturing nation. Revelation 18: 22. This passage tells us about her manufacturing no longer being found in her after the judgment. This tells us she was a manufacturing nation. Italy / Iraq are not a nations noted for being world leaders in manufacturing.

#6. Center for Merchandising and Marketing. Revelation 18: 3, 23; 19:2. Her merchants were the mega-merchants of the earth. This again does not fit the character traits of Rome or Iraq.

#7. Known as the World’s "policeman". Jeremiah 50:23 gives us a Hebrew idiom, "hammer of the whole earth". It had been used at one time to describe the way the empires of Persia, Greece and Rome had applied their power to keep the world at peace. Today, after the decline and fall of the Iron Curtain, major news media referred to America as the world’s policeman, in the same kind of role that the Hebrew idiom references. Neither Rome, Italy nor Iraq fit this role.

#8. Known for "showing the flag" or "gunboat diplomacy". Isaiah 18:1-2 Here again, 2 Hebrew idioms for the idea of a nation’s navy showing its power. The phrase in verse 1 relates to the idea of "air travel". The first phrase of verse 2…"that sends ambassadors by the sea" another Hebrew idiom for when ancient naval powers would send warships to "show the flag" of friendship or threaten war to unfriendly nations or cities. Today, one nation engages in such actions. The USA.

#9. Noted for its elegant luxurious lifestyles, refined, rich lifestyles. Isaiah 47: 1-8; Revelation 17: 4-5; 18: 2 –24, This does not match up with Rome. Rome is not capable of reaching such levels of wealthy living standards in our lifetime. It's always fighting perpetual rounds of inflation bordering at times near hyperinflation levels. Neither is Iraq capable of reaching such levels of wealthy living standards in our lifetime.

#10. Extremely Wealthy Jeremiah 51:13 Revelation 18: 2-19. Rome isn't that wealthy, Iraq isn't that wealthy.

#11. Sensual, Materialistic lifestyle. Isaiah 47: 8; Revelation 18:14. Now this one might be open to debate.

#12. The Highest Living Standards Isaiah 47:1 Revelation 18:14. Neither Italy nor Iraq enjoy any standard near the levels of the US or most other nations of Europe.

#13. Intoxicating high-society lifestyle as a world example to emulate Revelation 17:2; Revelation 18: 3, 14, 23.

#14. Elegant, Sumptuous lifestyle. Revelation 18: 14, 23. Again debatable as to whether Rome and Italy might be said to have this feature.

#15. Noted for its bright gaudy-colored lights and nightlife with round the-clock partying. Revelation 18:14. Note the words "dainty" and "goodly". Dainty is a word in Greek that connotes to 24-hour parties and is connoted with orgies and debauchery. The word for "goodly" is the Greek word "lampra" from which we get the English word for lamp.

#16. Noted for its Drugs and Drug use. Isaiah 47: 9, 12. Revelation 18:23 Do we even need to comment on this one???? I think not… the text clearly speaks for itself on this one.

#17. Noted for its culture. Revelation 18:14, 22
***Note - I personally don't agree with this but there is much imported culture / museums / art galleries etc.

#18. Noted for being Wasteful, Extravagant. Rev 18: 3, 7, 9, 14, 15; implied in Rev 17: 2.

#19. Massive Population. Rev. 18:15. And Revelation 17: 1, 15.

#20. A land of immigrants Jeremiah 50:16; 51:13; Rev. 17:1, 15. Well, with the Statue of Liberty as a symbol… there is no nation that has more appeal for immigration. Not many line up to want to immigrate to Italy.

#21. Unique and awe-inspiring beginning in its birth & right up to its demise. Isaiah 18: 2 While many nations have an interesting beginning, none have the kind of beginning that America had.

#22. Remarkably different heritage. Isaiah 18:2 See #21 above.

#23. Respected-envied and yet HATED by the whole world also. Isa. 18:2 No nation has this status within the family of nations other than the USA.

#24. Powerful and Oppressive Isaiah 18:2 Do we need to talk about all the military adventures the US has engaged in since the end of World War 2? When did you last hear of Italy or Rome bombing anybody?

#25. Land of Rebels in its birth Jeremiah 51: 1; Isaiah 47: 9.

#26. Cosmopolitan and Urban Jeremiah 50:32

#27. Land of Agriculture. Jeremiah 50: 16 Okay… when was the last time you saw farms in Rome itself? I'd like to know how much wheat, oats, corn, rice, etc that is grown in the city of Rome? I can just see a wheat combine harvesting all around the Vatican. Uh huh, sure! (North America is the largest agricultural exporting continent in the world!)

#28. An International City. Revelation 17: 18; 18:15. Well there are several cities that could fit that category.

#29. Architecture, buildings and skyline. Isaiah 13:22 Now the Rome theorists might want to argue for Rome's skyline and architecture… so I'll be generous and allow a "tie" on this one…giving it a maybe or maybe not.

#30. Land of Many waters. (fresh waters) Jeremiah 51:13, 36, 42; Isa 18:1,2. Definitely not Rome.

#31. Where the world’s leaders "stream" to meet. Jer. 51:44; Rev. 17:18. Neither Rome not Iraq is where all the world's leaders meet regularly. The only place that occurs is at the UN in New York City, at least once every year. Not Rome, Iraq, or anywhere else.

#32. Last of the Super powers. Jeremiah 50:12; Rev 17:18; and in the Revelation 18:18 passage "what city is like the ‘mega’ city"…also verse 19…Rome is definitely NOT a super power. No nation has ever had the power militarily and economically that the USA has had, especially in a percentage relationship to the rest of the world.

#33. No Fear of Invasion. Isaiah 47:5, 8; Revelation 18: 7 [note: since september 11, 2001, this situation seems to have changed, a possible sign that the destruction of Babylon is near!]

#34. Defenses reach up to Outer Space--Jeremiah 51:53. Since when did Italy or Rome ever have an astronaut program? Or a space program for that matter.

#35. Occult aspects Isaiah 47:9, 12, 13.

#36. Alliances/Treaties allowing physical military bases of operation for the Satanic forces. Revelation 18: 2.

#37. Its national symbol… Robed woman with a cup-like container in one hand that smells like natural gas odors inside the container…

#38. A Populated city named Babylon with a Deepwater Port.
Revelation 17:18; & 18: 11-19… Did you know that when ships coming in to the harbor facilities of New York City make their final approach to the Harbor channel shipping lanes…they have to come in from the south… heading due North straight for a spot on Long Island called … BABYLON !!! That’s right, the city of Babylon, which features a tall water tower that ship captains use to navigate directly into the harbor channel… and they come within 200 to 300 yards of the shore before turning west to head into the port. It is from this vantagepoint that I believe Revelation 18: 17-19 takes place. From this vantage point…on the deck of a ship…one could quite easily read the letters of the name Babylon on the city water tower!!! Talk about literal?? Now that is indeed literal. This is something that theorists who promote the Rome = Babylon idea can’t match, because Rome is not a Deepwater seaport…it's so far away from the ocean that it can not possibly fit the description of Revelation 18: 17-19… in no way. But the USA can… and especially its chief city… a seaport named NYC/Babylon. Also, Babylon, Long Island, derived its name because of it was founded by immigrant Jews in 1872…and the group’s rabbi’s chose the name almost prophetically, because they believed it would be home to a new diaspora.
Why would they think this? Because rabbinical opinions had held that ancient Babylon’s power would be moved… Zechariah 5: 5-11… and Isaiah 18:1 tells us what direction it would be moving. Isaiah 18:1 says that the spirit of Babylon would move west of the most outermost boundaries of ancient Babylon’s western-most border, beyond the rivers of Ethiopia and Egypt. [that is what is meant by the KJV term "Ethiopia"] By virtue of Isaiah’s point of observation being from Jerusalem…then the direction of movement was westward past Egypt…beyond the most outer of Babylon’s oldest boundaries… meaning… the occultic power that fueled Babylon would move and take up residence west of Egypt and Ethiopia in the end times. Rome is NOT west of Egypt and Ethiopia. Thus, again we have Rome ruled out of the picture by the character traits.
Thus, scripture itself negates the Rome or Irag being Babylon theory. Why will our "expert" scholars not accept the scriptural passages on this? Perhaps its pride or ignorance, I would suspect.
Clearly, the only literal interpretation for this subject of "Mystery Babylon" from scripture is that it literally cannot be Rome nor Iraq.

Well i just read every single post in this whole thread...First let me say i am exhausted from it!

My view on all this is that I DONT KNOW and honeslty i dont see why everyone cares so much? If you are saved then you will not be here for all this destruction and war that happens durng the tribulation, so therefore why worry? I know the Lord will take care of His children and as long as i am living for Him i know i will be OK. God bless!

crossland said:

Well i just read every single post in this whole thread...First let me say i am exhausted from it!

My view on all this is that I DONT KNOW and honeslty i dont see why everyone cares so much? If you are saved then you will not be here for all this destruction and war that happens durng the tribulation, so therefore why worry? I know the Lord will take care of His children and as long as i am living for Him i know i will be OK. God bless!

Click to expand...

Pre-Trib is a whole nother topic But I agree with you on it.

TheScottsMen said:

Again, just like most of the post on here they are trying to "fit" Babylon into who they think it might be this very sec.
Nations and systems can be born in a day. Just as Babylon will be. It seems most of the quoted authors that are posted on here have absolutely not hermeneutic study, thus throwing ridiculous guesses into who it might be today by who is the "super power" of todays world. Anyways, if the study of this topic is going to be done be simple guesses and no proper study of scriptures, im done.

TSM

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It has cold hard logic and intuition, common sense backed up with scriptures. The authors are merely restating what is common sense and in scripture - personal opinion has nothing to do with it. Most of these people are American incidently.


As for your intellect and hermeneutic study, if you had one sense of intuition rather than relying on books for your opinion, you would see quite clearly the truth contained therein and the true identity of Revelation 18 Babylon. And as for scriptural references, didn't you just get about 50????


I'm sorry, but one way or the other Americans have a real problem accepting this, and there are multitudes of feeble excuses (Babylon is a city, who cares, I'll be saved even if it's true etc etc). The last post was especially worrying. You will be in America when it happens, there will be no magic rapture to "save" you whilst the rest die. This is why you have to come to terms with these facts, so you can be prepared.


We are living in the end times, like it or not - just look around and feel it, see the acceleration of world events. God will not let the tap run forever.

^LOL I know...I thought about that after i posted that comment.

I dont know though, i LOVE these debates as much as the next person, but i just dont like how EVERYONE thinks they are right. If everyone took on the attitude that they MAY be right or they MAY be wrong (regarding prophecy interpretation) then these discussions would go a lot smoother. I mean i find it hilarious when a post starts out telling the other person that they are wrong. That automatically puts the other person (who is being told they are wrong) on the defense and prevents them from actually listening to the points being given to them.

God bless all!

##As for your intellect and hermeneutic study, if you had one sense of intuition rather than relying on books for your opinion, you would see quite clearly the truth contained therein and the true identity of Revelation 18 Babylon. And as for scriptural references, didn't you just get about 50????##

Your right, im relying on a Book. The Bible. Not intuition. As for who it will be. We will wait and see.

TM: I say this with love and kindness...But from reading your posts it seems to me that you WANT it to be the USA and you WANT us to be here when it (the fall of america) happens. IS this true? Do you have a dislike for the USA? I personally dont know who it is and dont care, i wont be here to see it

They used to write stuff like this about Napoleon...

JT said:

Have it your way, but when millions of Chinease and Mexicans start pouring over your borders in a few years you may well be humbled and realise that God is not quite as you thought.......the arrogance of America never ceases to amaze me, it my eyes it's like watching lambs going to the slaughter....
Read the stipulations of Babylon and honestly try to put it into any context. America fulfills all criteria, and now the political situation fits the glove as well.

Click to expand...

And apostate, muderous first century Jerusalem doesnt?


But ya got one new twist. The bit about the chinamen is old but the Mexicans? Santa Ana redivivus? Although its as realistic as the Russia, USSR,Russia/Germany nnsense.

H

JT said:

You will be in America when it happens, there will be no magic rapture to "save" you whilst the rest die. This is why you have to come to terms with these facts, so you can be prepared.


We are living in the end times, like it or not - just look around and feel it, see the acceleration of world events. God will not let the tap run forever.

Click to expand...

It is important for people NOT to assume that they will be whisked away

by a physical rapture.

Believe in Christ's return.. yes.. but do not construct a whisking away

on clouds. It leads to assumptions of well, I will not be here anyway etc..

JT said:

I meant in a war scenario. China / Russia from the north and China / Mexico from the south. That's how it will likely happen.

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It is very very very difficult to transport say 300,000 troops from Asia

into Mexico UNDERCOVER away from spy satellites... i am going by facts on the ground as we saw when America invaded Iraq.

Prophecy must be interpreted realistically when it comes to war between current nations.

It took America so long to amass troops to invade a weak nation like Iraq.

You need permission from other nations, waterways, bases etc.. not at all simple.

China would be exposed well in advance if it dreamt of attacking the Usa .

Reconnaisance systems would alert Americans even if Chinese troops were amassing to attack far away Taiwan, how much more galloping all the way to America.

Satellite systems etc monitor military activities 24/7. No body can amass troops to attack the USA unless the USA is deliberately "asleep".

9-11 was a terrorist attack.. it was not a conventional invasion by an army of a sovereign nation.

Impossible..... .