Stigmata, miracle or the devil?

Maybe neither. Stigmata are known in the medical world as a phenomenon caused by a certain kind of neurosis called "religious hysteria."

They can create stigmata in experiments by telling religiously neurotic subjects that they have been given a special sign of blessing from God and that that special sign is bleeding from the hands and feet like the wounds of Christ. People with that type of hysteria will often break out in stigmata right in the laboratory. The wounds break out on the skin because the subjects want to be proven special to God. No one is exactly sure how the wounds are made in the skin, it just seems to tear or break open, but not deeply enough to need stitches.

So there you have it. Stigmata are probably not either of God or the devil, but of the mind of the individual people.

I believe these things are from Satan. It would be just like him to get as many as possible to believe a lie. He will try to get you off track, especially when God is about to get the glory. Have you ever noticed how he attacks you more when you are working for the Lord?? Then he leaves you alone when you're not. If you do nothing for the Lord, then Satan won't even bother you. He delights in people thinking he doesn't exist.

It is difficult to say. You would have to know who the person is.
I would tend to think that if God is using it to bring people to Him. then it is of Him. If it is driving people to false religion or idols or out of Christianity,then I would tend to believe it is from Satan.

Gosh, I don't know.

I read about Theresa Neumann & Padre Pio.

I would have a very hard time saying it was of the devil.

Alot of people got saved & accepted Jesus Christ through these types of things.

If it is of the devil, it's backfiring on him.

>>Alot of people got saved & accepted Jesus Christ through these types of things.

Name one.

I would normally think that these kinds of things are of the devil. However one of my heroes was the one to start it. St Francis. He was really cool. However I still think he was human so I guess I do not think it is of the devil but I do not think it is of God either. I think it is more of psychological or medical problem.

Blackhaw6

lambslove,
Lots of people.

Read the books, go search your library for video documentries of testimonies, look into the medical aspect of it.

People have been saved through seeing these types of things.

God works works whomever He chooses to work through.

I certainly don't see anything in Scripture that speaks against it.

I don't know what it is, but I'm very careful about saying something is the work of the devil when it comes to brothers & sisters in within the Body of Christ.

People like Theresa Neumann, Padre Pio, or as mentioned before, St. Francis....I just have a hard time as not seeing them as benefiting the Body of Christ.


If people are drawn to Jesus Christ through their testimonies or experiences, how could it be of satan?

A house divided cannot stand....

*shrug*

But name ONE person that you KNOW that got genuinely saved, completely turned their life over to the Lord and stuck with it for life because they read about someone with stigmata.

I know a woman who says that people gt saved by what she does. She bills herself as a "Stripper for the Lord," and goes around to various places taking her clothes off and talking about the Bible. She claims that her body is a gift of God and that He has asked her to use it to tell people about God's love. But that doesn't mean that people are really getting saved because of her.

Likewise stigmata. They are an interesting show, but I don't think that anyone really looks at them and says, "The grace of God suddenly has become realy to me. I'm going to turn my life over to God and follow Christ's teachings."

But name ONE person that you KNOW that got genuinely saved, completely turned their life over to the Lord and stuck with it for life because they read about someone with stigmata.

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Name one person you know that got genuinely 'saved'. And name what you would be willing to wager that that person is definitely going to heaven when they die. Then tell me how you know all this.

Most, but not all, people who are moved by supernatural manifestations already have a basis in faith to begin with. But in cases where these occurences manifested in front of hundreds or thousands of witnesses, and their skepticism was overpowered, there have indeed been documented cases of mass conversion. The miracle of the sun at Fatima. The appearances of Mary with the Dove in Egypt. The miraculous cures at Lourdes. Things like this are under constant and severe scrutiny by the Church, and we trust the Church in her wisdom to uncover the truth of these things. If the truth is that the occurence is truly supernatural (not a hoax), and consistent with the Teachings of Christ and His Apostles, then there is no reason not to believe that these things are happening to show God's Power and strengthen our faith.

And besides, no-one, not even Catholics, are under any compulsion to believe or place faith in any apparition, even those with full Church approval.

I know a woman who says that people gt saved by what she does. She bills herself as a "Stripper for the Lord," and goes around to various places taking her clothes off and talking about the Bible. She claims that her body is a gift of God and that He has asked her to use it to tell people about God's love. But that doesn't mean that people are really getting saved because of her.

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Oh, boy.

Likewise stigmata. They are an interesting show, but I don't think that anyone really looks at them and says, "The grace of God suddenly has become realy to me. I'm going to turn my life over to God and follow Christ's teachings."

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I have never personally seen anyone with the Stigmata. So I reserve judgement. I don't claim to know how it might affect others.


God bless...


Sandy

I am not sure about stigmata but I know from what Jesus teaches us about the end times and being fooled by the devil that the statues crying and bleeding are tricks or either the devil or man.

First of all we should not even be building and praying to statues.
(see the 2nd commandment)

Here is a teaching I wrote some time back:

The Nine Commandments? - by Keith Giveans

New International Version Deuteronomy Chapter 5

*Just A Personal Note:

Although the commandments were never actually numbered by God or Moses, from scripture and by common sense and in reading and counting them as they are given to Moses we can only come to one conclusion; that either the topic of idol worship is a separate commandment from the first, or that there are only 9 Commandments, and we know there are 10.

1. "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. You shall have no other gods before me."

2. "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand [generations] of those who love me and keep my commandments." *[Also see King James Version of Deuteronomy 4:16-4:18 as it replaces the word anything with Male or Female, animal...etc]

3. "You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name."

4. "Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the LORD your God has commanded you. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor the alien within your gates, so that your manservant and maidservant may rest, as you do. Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day."

5. "Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God has commanded you, so that you may live long and that it may go well with you in the land the LORD your God is giving you."

6. "You shall not murder."

7. "You shall not commit adultery."

8. "You shall not steal. "

9. "You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor. "

10."You shall not covet your neighbor's wife. You shall not set your desire on your neighbor's house or land, his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor."

These are the commandments the LORD proclaimed in a loud voice to your whole assembly there on the mountain from out of the fire, the cloud and the deep darkness; and he added nothing more. Then he wrote them on two stone tablets and gave them to me.

Now Look At This Little Twist Below!

Roman Catholic version commonly taught today:

1. "I am the LORD your God, you shall have no other gods before me."
2. "You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God."
3. "Observe the Sabbath day and keep it holy."
4. "Honor your father and your mother."
5. "You shall not murder."
6. "You shall not commit adultery."
7. "You shall not steal. "
8. "You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor. "
9. "You shall not covet your neighbor's wife."
10. "You shall not covet your neighbor's goods."

What was altered? Lets investigate this by simply reading our bible. It seems that idol worship is removed (and other things changes as well) this leaves only 9 Commandments, so the 10th. commandment ("You Shall Not Covert Anything That Belongs To Your Neighbor") is broken into two separate commandments to make up for the missing one. Lets see if this holds true.

1. "I am the LORD your God, you shall have no other gods before me."
[Idol worship not included here]
2. "You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God."
3. "Observe the Sabbath day and keep it holy."
[The Sabbath was changed by the Roman Catholics from Saturday the 7th. day of the week to Sunday the 1st. day of the week... but by who's authority?]
4. "Honor your father and your mother."
5. "You shall not murder."
6. "You shall not commit adultery."
7. "You shall not steal. "
8. "You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor."
9-a. [The last was broken into two] "You shall not covet your neighbor's wife."
9-b. [The last was broken into two] "You shall not covet your neighbor's goods."

why was this altered? Why was the topic of idol worship left out? Knowing this now, why would anyone willingly bow and pray in front of a statue (or idol)?

i·dol (i dol) n.
An image used as an object of worship. One that is adored.

wor·ship (wûr ship) n.
Reverent love and devotion for a deity or sacred object. The ceremonies or prayers by which this love is expressed. Ardent devotion; adoration: his worship of fame. To honor and love as a deity. To love devotedly.

bow (bou) v.
To bend the body, head, or knee in order to express greeting, consent, courtesy, or veneration. To acquiesce; submit. To remove oneself; withdraw. An act of bowing, as in respect.

For more on false teachings and the end times feel free to visit http://www.gospelgumbo.com/sermons-falseteachings.html

Oh boy.....ok, I'm not going to get into the Catholic/protestant debate.

I don't know anyone personally that has gotten saved through the seeing, reading, witnessing the stigmata.

All I know is what I have read & researched about it.

If your genuinely curious, you might want to do the same.

As far as false teachings are concerned, we are to test everything with Scripture.

I have not seen anything that indicates this is of the devil so as Zoomom said, I reserve judgement.

No Church is perfect.
I don't believe any one of them is 100%.

I just find it slightly amusing that everyone see's the Catholic Church as the mother of false teachings, when I see so much falsehood in the protestant churches also.

And I'm not Catholic...yet.

But when I see someone getting offensive about it & not showing a whole lot of Christian love, it just really urges me on in that direction.

I love discussing these things with mutual respect because like it or not, we are brethern in the Body of Christ.....Catholics like Padre Pio, etc. are very much apart of that Body in my opinion.

I've really enjoyed this discussion, hope we can continue.

Michie

I think you have a good point there.

I wouldn't call it religious hysteria though. More like religious hyperstress.

People under great stress can sweat blood. For example, Jesus sweated blood in the garden, before his capture.

As for it being dubbed Satanic... it might apply in those instances where statues literally bleed. Now that's scary.

Originally posted by lambslove
Maybe neither. Stigmata are known in the medical world as a phenomenon caused by a certain kind of neurosis called "religious hysteria."

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I think that this is a very interesting topic. One that I have often pondered about.


What I think is most interesting is that most of these "miracles" do happen in the catholic faith. Not just the stigmata, but the statues crying blood or oil, peoples rosaries turning to gold, the apparitions of Mary , people reporting the sun spinnning when she appears........

I can see stigmata being a medical condition but I wonder about these other things.


God Bless,
Roberta

Hi blynn,
I've often wondered the same thing. Why is it that there seems to be major differences in miracles?

Seems there is the protestant style miracle & then their is the Catholic miracle.

I've often wondered if the difference lies in the depth of our faith......

?

For an excellent overview of the subject, tackled from the Catholic point of view, read They Bore the Wounds of Christ, by Michael Freze. OSV Publishing, ISBN 0-87973-422-1.