IS THE SUN A SIGN OF THE SON?

Big Mouth Nana · Nov 20, 2003

Chi_Cygni said:
I addressed these issues at the start of the last thread.

I don't know whether people just want to think they are in the 'end of times' or a just scientifically ignorant.

To repeat:

The peak in the solar cycle WAS 2 years ago. It just so happens we have seen some recent activity which is a little unusual for a period 2 years after the max. BUT IT ISN'T UNKNOWN FOR THIS.

Also, unfortunately, reports on scientific issues on the web, in newspapers, on TV tend towards language that makes good copy. I would say using the words 'mysterious' and 'haywire' in the same sentence is tantamount to fiction. When they say 'no one knows what's going to happen' they mean will we see similar activity or not - NOT WHETHER THE WORLD IS ENDING OR NOT - please don't be paranoid

(These flares are not the largest ever recorded)

The California fires, though tragic, were tiny on a world scale. Much worse fires occur all the time it just so happens these were covered so much due to it being California and the proximity to a large population base. Plus this is totally unrelated to the solar activity.

Lunar eclipses occur approx. every 6 months (well almost.) They always appear red due to refracted sunlight through the Earth's atmosphere illuminating the Moon. These are not special events.

Just like all this end of days prophecy - people have been saying this for 1900 years now. Using earthly and astronomical phenomena to back their viewpoint up. AND GUESS WHAT, IT NEVER COMES TRUE.

People will be doing this 1000 years from now. Also, the vast majority of Christians do not believe this bunkum.

Regards.

PS

Much more dramatic natural phenomena have occurred in the historical past AND we are still here.

People will be doing this 1000 years from now. Also, the vast majority of Christians do not believe this bunkum.

Oh, have you talked to the vast majority of Christians? Gee, you must be really busy. Unlike you, alot of Christians that I have talked to on other boards, and some on this site, know that we aren't going to stay here forever, and do believe in end time events. We do not take take our "cue" from the scientific world as a whole, but in the Spirit of God, and what he is revealing to our Spirits. He is saying, he is coming soon, so wake up all of you Eienstiens in the sientific world. He's coming regardless of when you think the timing is right, and He is showing His signs.
This quote came from Hathaway at Nasa according to this program lastnight, so is Nasa lying or the minister? I'll believe them both.

Chi_Cygni · Nov 20, 2003

Don't be sarcastic.

Whenever you see surveys on these issues, it is a very small minority believe we are at the 'end of days'.

But I do know one thing, this interpreting the current solar activity as anything related to prophecy is just ignorance of the science, pure and simple.

Big Mouth Nana · Nov 20, 2003

Chi_Cygni said:
Don't be sarcastic.

Whenever you see surveys on these issues, it is a very small minority believe we are at the 'end of days'.

But I do know one thing, this interpreting the current solar activity as anything related to prophecy is just ignorance of the science, pure and simple.

I take back what I said. One of the sun spots were the biggest ever recorded. This is straight from the article that I posted in my first post, straight from Hathway at Nasa...A typical X-flare registers X1 or X2. On Nov. 4th, sunspot 486 unleashed an X28 flare--the most powerful ever recorded.
Sarcasm...not me!!!

Chi_Cygni · Nov 20, 2003

And next time, why don't you quit selecting quotes that show what you want to push. That might not be dishonest but it's close. Typical of the Young Earth Creationist frauds.

What is actually in the report is:

All this happened two years after solar maximum, which raises a question: is something wrong with the solar cycle? Is the sun going haywire?

"Nothing's wrong," reassures Hathaway. The sun isn't about to explode, nor is the sunspot cycle broken. "These latest sunspots were whoppers," he allows, "but sunspot counts averaged over many weeks are still declining as predicted. We're still on course for a solar minimum in 2006."

Indeed, it's possible that what we've just experienced is a normal part of the solar cycle, speculates Hathaway. "There's a curious tendency for the biggest flares to occur after solar maximum -- on the downslope toward solar minimum. This has happened during two of the last three solar cycles." The plot below illustrates his point.

Consider the year 1984, says Hathaway. Sunspot counts were plunging, and the sun was rapidly approaching the 1985-86 solar minimum. Suddenly a giant sunspot appeared, Jupiter-sized like sunspot 486, and unleashed two dozen M-flares and three X-flares, including a remarkable flare registering X13. People then probably wondered too if the solar cycle was broken.

"It's hard to be sure what's normal and what's not," notes Hathaway. "Astronomers have been observing x-rays from the sun for only 35 years -- or three solar cycles. We can't draw good statistical conclusions from so few data."

One thing is certain, though: flurries of solar activity can happen at any time. The next time, says Hathaway, could be just a week or so away.

Sunspot 486 and its companions are on the far side of the sun now, carried around by the sun's 27-day rotation. "We suspect they're still active," says Hathaway, because the Solar and Heliospheric Observatory -- a sun-watching satellite -- has photographed clouds of gas being thrown over the sun's limb by unseen explosions.

Unless these sunspots dissipate, which could happen, they will reappear on the Earth-facing side of the sun beginning as early as Nov. 14th.

And then...? No one knows. "We might get some more unseasonal space weather," says Hathaway. But this time he won't be surprised.

-----

Doesn't seem quite as sensationalist as your selective post.

Hitch · Nov 20, 2003

Oh, have you talked to the vast majority of Christians? Gee, you must be really busy. Unlike you, alot of Christians that I have talked to on other boards, and some on this site, know that we aren't going to stay here forever, and do believe in end time events.

LOL You imply that anyone who has a different view does not believe in 'end time events'. Then you complain about people not being nice enough.

At least your logic is consistent.

Hitch

Hitch · Nov 20, 2003

Ben_Hur said:
Perecles quoted this.

If these "last days" were not to go all the way out until the end of the world, then how far were they supposed to go? To 70AD? And if those were the "last days," what are these days (today)? The "after last days?" The "end of the age?"

I would expect Perecles would have a reasonable explanation for this, but I've asked two other questions on preterism in this forum and they seem to fall on deaf ears. Oh well....somewhere bewteen DF and preterism I stay.....

If the speaker is a Prophet of Israel it doesnt take much to figure he is likely speaking of Israel's last days.

hitch

Hitch · Nov 20, 2003

Heb. 9:26 KJV ~ For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the END OF THE WORLD hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. Jesus died in THE END OF THE WORLD, so actually, those people in that time were in the end of the world also. Does this make sense, LOL? Gee, I hope I didn't confuse you more!!!!!!

__________________

What ended was the old world, antedeluvian, system of bloody animal sacrfices. Dan spoke of the 'time of th eend' of the 'oblations'. It has nothing to do with the end of the physical planet or of time as a dimention. Like it or not you cant literalize it and more than Paul's new creation can be literalized.

Hitch

BonoMan · Nov 20, 2003

Godlessness in the Last Days

1But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God-- 5having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.
6They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over weak-willed women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth. 8Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these men oppose the truth--men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. 9But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone

Big Mouth Nana · Nov 21, 2003

Chi_Cygni said:
And next time, why don't you quit selecting quotes that show what you want to push. That might not be dishonest but it's close. Typical of the Young Earth Creationist frauds.

What is actually in the report is:

All this happened two years after solar maximum, which raises a question: is something wrong with the solar cycle? Is the sun going haywire?

"Nothing's wrong," reassures Hathaway. The sun isn't about to explode, nor is the sunspot cycle broken. "These latest sunspots were whoppers," he allows, "but sunspot counts averaged over many weeks are still declining as predicted. We're still on course for a solar minimum in 2006."

Indeed, it's possible that what we've just experienced is a normal part of the solar cycle, speculates Hathaway. "There's a curious tendency for the biggest flares to occur after solar maximum -- on the downslope toward solar minimum. This has happened during two of the last three solar cycles." The plot below illustrates his point.

Consider the year 1984, says Hathaway. Sunspot counts were plunging, and the sun was rapidly approaching the 1985-86 solar minimum. Suddenly a giant sunspot appeared, Jupiter-sized like sunspot 486, and unleashed two dozen M-flares and three X-flares, including a remarkable flare registering X13. People then probably wondered too if the solar cycle was broken.

"It's hard to be sure what's normal and what's not," notes Hathaway. "Astronomers have been observing x-rays from the sun for only 35 years -- or three solar cycles. We can't draw good statistical conclusions from so few data."

One thing is certain, though: flurries of solar activity can happen at any time. The next time, says Hathaway, could be just a week or so away.

Sunspot 486 and its companions are on the far side of the sun now, carried around by the sun's 27-day rotation. "We suspect they're still active," says Hathaway, because the Solar and Heliospheric Observatory -- a sun-watching satellite -- has photographed clouds of gas being thrown over the sun's limb by unseen explosions.

Unless these sunspots dissipate, which could happen, they will reappear on the Earth-facing side of the sun beginning as early as Nov. 14th.

And then...? No one knows. "We might get some more unseasonal space weather," says Hathaway. But this time he won't be surprised.

-----

Doesn't seem quite as sensationalist as your selective post.

This is a quote right from Hathway, the astro-phycist at Nasa from my first post. People can read it right off of the link if they choose to.

Then, suddenly, in late October the sun began to behave strangely. Three giant sunspots appeared, each one larger than the planet Jupiter. In California where smoke from wildfires dimmed the sun enough to look straight at it, casual sky watchers were startled by the huge blotches on the sun. One of them, named "sunspot 486," was the biggest in 13 years.

Another quote from Hathaway from Nasa off of what I posted.
Researchers rank solar flares according to their x-ray power output. C-flares are the weakest. M-flares are middling-strong. X-flares are the most powerful. Each category has subdivisions: e.g., X1, X2, X3 and so on. A typical X-flare registers X1 or X2. On Nov. 4th, sunspot 486 unleashed an X28 flare--the most powerful ever recorded.

You forgot to add these from the report. Why? Never mind, I know why.

Big Mouth Nana · Nov 21, 2003

BonoMan said:
Godlessness in the Last Days

1But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God-- 5having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.
6They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over weak-willed women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth. 8Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these men oppose the truth--men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. 9But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone

Gee, What else can a person say to all of this? That covers it pretty good, LOL.

Big Mouth Nana · Nov 21, 2003

Hitch said:
Heb. 9:26 KJV ~ For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the END OF THE WORLD hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. Jesus died in THE END OF THE WORLD, so actually, those people in that time were in the end of the world also. Does this make sense, LOL? Gee, I hope I didn't confuse you more!!!!!!

__________________

What ended was the old world, antedeluvian, system of bloody animal sacrfices. Dan spoke of the 'time of th eend' of the 'oblations'. It has nothing to do with the end of the physical planet or of time as a dimention. Like it or not you cant literalize it and more than Paul's new creation can be literalized.

Hitch

ER......That's not what I was talking about. I know about Jesus being our sacrifice, and the bloody sacrifices senerio. This scripture literally states that Jesus appeared and died as our sacrifice in the end of the world. IE: End of world then. End of world now. It just means that we are in "the end", not that it has expired. In the Living bible, this scripture calls it the "end of the age". It means the same thing.

Ben_Hur · Nov 21, 2003

Hitch said:
If the speaker is a Prophet of Israel it doesnt take much to figure he is likely speaking of Israel's last days.

hitch

I don't see how that follows - scripturally, I mean.

Here is a search I did on "last days."

Isa 2:2 Now it will come about that In the last days The mountain of the house of the LORD Will be established as the chief of the mountains, And will be raised above the hills; And all the nations will stream to it.

Jer 23:20 "The anger of the LORD will not turn back Until He has performed and carried out the purposes of His heart; In the last days you will clearly understand it.

Jer 49:39 'But it will come about in the last days That I will restore the fortunes of Elam,'" Declares the LORD.

Was that done? The fortunes of Elam restored? Anyone know?

Eze 38:16 and you will come up against My people Israel like a cloud to cover the land. It shall come about in the last days that I will bring you against My land, so that the nations may know Me when I am sanctified through you before their eyes, O Gog."

Is Gog Romans?

Hos 3:5 Afterward the sons of Israel will return and seek the LORD their God and David their king; and they will come trembling to the LORD and to His goodness in the last days.

The sons of Isreal trembled to the LORD in the last days prior to 70AD? They rejected Jesus. Is that trembling to the LORD?

Mic 4:1 And it will come about in the last days That the mountain of the house of the LORD Will be established as the chief of the mountains. It will be raised above the hills, And the peoples will stream to it.

Did this happen? I thought it was on the temple mount, which I think had already been established by the time of this prophecy, wasn't it?

Act 2:17 'AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,' God says, 'THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND; AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY, AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS, AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS;

2Ti 3:1 But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come.

Heb 1:2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

Jam 5:3 Your gold and your silver have rusted; and their rust will be a witness against you and will consume your flesh like fire. It is in the last days that you have stored up your treasure!

2Pe 3:3 Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts,

I just don't see a clear cut pattern that tells me the last days are reserved for Isreal only.

Big Mouth Nana · Nov 21, 2003

Mic 4:1 And it will come about in the last days That the mountain of the house of the LORD Will be established as the chief of the mountains. It will be raised above the hills, And the peoples will stream to it.

Is Gog Romans?
Gog and Magog come against Israel. One of those is Russia.
The New Jerusalem is going to decend down over the earthly Jerusalem. We will already be in heaven ruling and reigning with Christ. There are still people on the earth then.

I just don't see a clear cut pattern that tells me the last days are reserved for Isreal only.

They aren't. We ARE ALL experiancing the last days now, and they are going to get worse before Jesus comes.

Big Mouth Nana · Nov 21, 2003

Here is another article from Fox News talking about the solar flares. This is definately different. There is a quote by a space weather forecaster from the National Oceanic & Space Administration that attests to this.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,103206,00.html

BonoMan · Nov 21, 2003

When did the last days start? Was it when Israel become a nation in 1948?

Blynn · Nov 21, 2003

Because the other thread was closed due to 'flaming' I am posting this reminder for all.....

Rule No. 1 - No "Flaming"

.:Forum Rule 1:. Rule No. 1 - No "Flaming"

1) You will not post any messages that harass, insult, belittle, threaten or flame another member or guest. This will include misquoting another member out of context. You may discuss another member's beliefs but there will be no personal attacks on the member himself or herself. This includes implied accusations that another member is not a Christian.

Please be mindful of the forum rules when posting. Let's respect each other's beliefs and opinions when discussing.

Thank you,
Roberta

Big Mouth Nana · Nov 21, 2003

BonoMan said:
When did the last days start? Was it when Israel become a nation in 1948?

I have heard ministers say that when Israel became a nation, that it started Gods time clock prophecy wise. I think that it was one of the signs for the church to see for a "sign".

Isaiah 66:8 ~ Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a NATION BE BORN at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children. The rest of that chapter toward the end sounds futuristic, since in verse 23 it talks about ALL FLESH coming to worship before HIM.

parousia70 · Nov 21, 2003

BonoMan said:
When did the last days start? Was it when Israel become a nation in 1948?

According to scripture, the Last days, and the end of the age, were underway during Chrit's earthly ministry, which puts their beginning PRIOR to the Cross:

Hebrews 1:1-2
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Hebrews 9:26
He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

Any view that places the beginning of the "last days" at or after the cross, is unscriptural and must be rejected.

Big Mouth Nana · Nov 21, 2003

parousia70 said:
According to scripture, the Last days, and the end of the age, were underway during Chrit's earthly ministry, which puts their beginning PRIOR to the Cross:

Hebrews 1:1-2
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Hebrews 9:26
He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

Any view that places the beginning of the "last days" at or after the cross, is unscriptural and must be rejected.

Amen parousia!!! I quoted the same scripture in Heb. 9:26 in an above post. That scripture tells it very plainly.

Big Mouth Nana · Nov 21, 2003

I first off want to say, that I realize that we have aways had solar/lunar eclipses. I am 53 years old, and I have never seen such an active heavens in my life. We just had the total lunar eclipse with the pretty red moon. The solar flares, which are still going on, and are supposed to peaK on Thanksgiving day. Now there are two things on tap for the 23rd of this month, on Sunday.

Coronal Holes[font=arial,helvetica]:

[font=arial,helvetica][size=-2]
"Earth could encounter a solar wind stream from the indicated coronal hole as early as Nov. 23rd. Image credit: SOHO Extreme UV" (This says "could"). Oh why not? Everything else is happing, LOL.[/font][/size][/font]

This is going to happen Sunday also. A total solar eclipse.

http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/TSE2003/TSE2003.html

These "signs," and I believe that is what they are, are happening to frequently to be just the usual routine of the heavens.

IS THE SUN A SIGN OF THE SON?

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