SIGNS IN THE HEAVENS AND EARTH?

Pericles · Nov 19, 2003

BonoMan said:
And I thought jhessels thread was crazy!!!!! Have you got some stats to back up those wild claims? GOOD GRIEF!

Stats? No no...the burden of proof is on YOU! You are the guy saying the planet is heading to hell in a handbasket...PROVE IT! When there were 4 people on the planet, one out of 4 was a murderer. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to realize that 25% of the population of the planet are not killers and murderers...

Pericles · Nov 19, 2003

Brain Damage said:
And don't worry about what Pericles or any other preterist says , these guys will even tell lies if they have too , to maintain there preterist beliefs.

I have debated with athiests who agree that the world is in trouble , kinda makes you wonder doesn't it.

People like you have been preaching the end of the world for hundreds or thousands of years, and EVERY SINGLE TIME, without failure, they were proven to be either scam artists, liars, or misguided souls. Which one are you?

Rather than throwing accusations around, show me one instance in which the "end of the world" crowd turned out to be right! Every single person that claimed the end of the world is at hand, and that the world is doomed, was proven a liar!

Linda8 · Nov 19, 2003

Pericles said:
Oh yeah...Jesus the red commie. I almost forgot about this one! Sorry, that doesn't fly with me. Jesus didn't preach communism! He preached individual responsibility, charity, love and compassion. Communism has nothing in common with Christ's message. Multiplying a few pieces of bread to feed thousands of people if compassionate capitalism at its best!

You missed the point. If capitalism was about individual responsibility, charity, love and compassion there would be no slums, crack, gun crime etc in nations

that practice capitalism.

If Jesus were ruling this planet, there would be no vast differentials in wealth

anywhere.

Communism has its errors and obviously those are man made.

Capitalism .. compassionate?

The very first set of people who would wish Christ would not return would be capitalists.. not communists.

Pericles · Nov 19, 2003

Linda8 said:
You missed the point. If capitalism was about individual responsibility, charity, love and compassion there would be no slums, crack, gun crime etc in nations

that practice capitalism.

If Jesus were ruling this planet, there would be no vast differentials in wealth

anywhere.

Communism has its errors and obviously those are man made.

Capitalism .. compassionate?

The very first set of people who would wish Christ would not return would be capitalists.. not communists.

I missed the point? I really doubt that! I lived under Communism and crime was just as bad as it is in the United States. Theocracy doesn't make people better... You are advocating that external circumstances make a society better. That's ludicrous! Only changing people's hearts makes a society better, regardless of who is in charge. The disciples screwed up all the time while in the presence of Jesus, so your argument fails.

If you are implying that wealth is bad, then you are living in the wrong country. Why are you not moving to Cuba and renounce your job, bank accounts and all physical wealth?

Plan 9 · Nov 19, 2003

Deamiter said:
The reason they've never seen anything like this before is that this was the first 11 year cycle that we've had the technology in space to really study the cycle. Also, we're nearing the peak of a (albeit hypothetical, but supported) 100 some year cycle if I remember correctly.

Look, there are natural disasters all over the world every year, some years more than others. When I see disasters worse than the bubonic plague where a full third of a civilization (now the whole world) is wiped out then I MIGHT get worried. Until then, I'll continue to live as instructed in the Bible, as if Jesus is coming back soon with the caveat that we will never be able to predict his coming.

His Grace - I understand your concern, but doesn't it bother you that people have not only predicted but honestly BELIEVED that Jesus will come back soon (as in within 10 years) for the last 2000 years? They have ALL backed up their claims with biblical data, and they have all pointed to the same sets of repetative events as worse than before. What is happening now will always seem worse than before because you didn't live through the before. However, as a physics student at a very conservative university, I hear this topic discussed often by professors who are willing to consider that Jesus MAY be coming soon.

How can we possibly convince you if you consider yourself to be more qualified than Christian professors (many of whom are very conservative young earth creationists) who have studied this topic (astrophysics) for 50 or more years?

Look, Deamiter is right. We haven't had the technology to adequately study sunspots for long enough to know if they're getting worse or not. We haven't even had decent weather records for much over a hundred years.
People, Christian or not, are always saying that things are worse now than in "The Good Old Days". Now that I'm old enough to remember a period that Americans to young to remember themselves choose to consider "The Good Old Days", I'm very sceptical of that tendency in people.
If anything, the Four Horsemen ride through less than they used to.

parousia70 · Nov 19, 2003

Plan 9 said:
People, Christian or not, are always saying that things are worse now than in "The Good Old Days". Now that I'm old enough to remember a period that Americans to young to remember themselves choose to consider "The Good Old Days", I'm very sceptical of that tendency in people.
If anything, the Four Horsemen ride through less than they used to.

What a great point!
I have issued before, and I do issue again now, an invitation to anyone who belives the world is worse today than ever before, to pick a time in history, any time at all, and explain how that time was better than it is today.

Was it better 10 years ago? if so, explain in what way it was better then?

Was it better 50 years ago? if so, explain in what way it was better then?

Was it better 100 years ago? if so, explain in what way it was better then?

Was it better 500 years ago? if so, explain in what way it was better then?

was it better 1000 or 2000 or 5000 years ago?

Surely if it is in fact worse today, somebody ought to be able to point to a specific time in history and concretely show how it was better then, than it is today.

So far, no one, abslotely no one, has been able to answer this invitation.

BonoMan · Nov 19, 2003

Try arguing with the stats.

http://wakeupamericainc.org/moralmeasures.html

Big Mouth Nana · Nov 19, 2003

parousia70 said:
What a great point!
I have issued before, and I do issue again now, an invitation to anyone who belives the world is worse today than ever before, to pick a time in history, any time at all, and explain how that time was better than it is today.

Was it better 10 years ago? if so, explain in what way it was better then?

Was it better 50 years ago? if so, explain in what way it was better then?

Was it better 100 years ago? if so, explain in what way it was better then?

Was it better 500 years ago? if so, explain in what way it was better then?

was it better 1000 or 2000 or 5000 years ago?

Surely if it is in fact worse today, somebody ought to be able to point to a specific time in history and concretely show how it was better then, than it is today.

So far, no one, abslotely no one, has been able to answer this invitation.

Surely if it is in fact worse today, somebody ought to be able to point to a specific time in history and concretely show how it was better then, than it is today.

For one thing, homosexuals weren't allowed to marry. Now they are.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&ncid=578&e=9&u=/nm/20031119/ts_nm/rights_gays_dc
Aides.
We still had prayer in school.
Christian monuments were not ORDERED to be removed.
We could still say in court..."so help you God" when giving testimony.
Murderers weren't found innocent, IE: OJ Simpson.
We believed in the sanctity of life, less abortions.
The US debt wasn't out of site. Economic upheaval.
Terrorists weren't attacking our cities, IE: 9-11.
President weren't blatantly having an affair from the Oval Office, IE: Clinton.
We didn't have the acceptance of all faiths, cultic or not...apostacy coming. Rise since 9-11.
The lists goes on, but here is a new one for you. The Jews are feverishly working to get things in order so that the temple can be rebuilt, so the antichrist can sit his butt in it. I saw this from Israel yesterday. What is different, alot of the Christian ministries are going to back this. NEVER before has this happened.

Ben_Hur · Nov 19, 2003

parousia70 said:
What a great point!
I have issued before, and I do issue again now, an invitation to anyone who belives the world is worse today than ever before, to pick a time in history, any time at all, and explain how that time was better than it is today.

Was it better 10 years ago? if so, explain in what way it was better then?

Was it better 50 years ago? if so, explain in what way it was better then?

Was it better 100 years ago? if so, explain in what way it was better then?

Was it better 500 years ago? if so, explain in what way it was better then?

was it better 1000 or 2000 or 5000 years ago?

Surely if it is in fact worse today, somebody ought to be able to point to a specific time in history and concretely show how it was better then, than it is today.

So far, no one, abslotely no one, has been able to answer this invitation.

Probably need to define "worse." But here are some thoughts...

10 years ago, it was ok in EVERY school in America to say the pledge of allegience in public school and include the phrase "under God."

100 years ago, it was ok for teachers to pray with their students

30 years ago, HIV Aids was only something out of science fiction.

Around 2000 years ago, Christians were only persecuted in and about Rome. Today, they are persecuted in China, Sudan, and more....

10 years ago, we generally didn't have computers in our homes with quick access to inappropriate contentography. Now we depend on them.

30 years ago, we wouldn't see cartoon characters exuding disrespect to each other, parents, etc. and theirby teaching it too our kids...OR, 70 years ago, there was no TV.....

60 years ago, it was nearly impossible to destroy the majority of human life on earth. Now we have nuclear weapons and we can do it with the push of a button.

100 years ago, there were countless viruses that were not immune to antibiotics. Now doctors pass out antibiotics like candy.

60 years ago, it was rare that someone suffered hearing loss at a musical concert - or from their car stereo.

50 years ago, an engineer with only a bachelor's degree had a chance of 1) working at NASA, and 2) providing a good income for his family.

60 years ago, women were objectified less than they are today, thanks to radical feminism.

30 years ago, certain types of photos in inappropriate contentography magazines were illegal.

10 years ago, it would be difficult to build a casino next to a high school (happened recently in my town).

10 years ago, it would be difficult to open a inappropriate content shop next to a church (happened recently in my town).

Maybe you like these things....I don't.

Big Mouth Nana · Nov 19, 2003

Ben_Hur said:
Probably need to define "worse." But here are some thoughts...

10 years ago, it was ok in EVERY school in America to say the pledge of allegience in public school and include the phrase "under God."

100 years ago, it was ok for teachers to pray with their students

30 years ago, HIV Aids was only something out of science fiction.

Around 2000 years ago, Christians were only persecuted in and about Rome. Today, they are persecuted in China, Sudan, and more....

10 years ago, we generally didn't have computers in our homes with quick access to inappropriate contentography. Now we depend on them.

30 years ago, we wouldn't see cartoon characters exuding disrespect to each other, parents, etc. and theirby teaching it too our kids...OR, 70 years ago, there was no TV.....

60 years ago, it was nearly impossible to destroy the majority of human life on earth. Now we have nuclear weapons and we can do it with the push of a button.

100 years ago, there were countless viruses that were not immune to antibiotics. Now doctors pass out antibiotics like candy.

60 years ago, it was rare that someone suffered hearing loss at a musical concert - or from their car stereo.

50 years ago, an engineer with only a bachelor's degree had a chance of 1) working at NASA, and 2) providing a good income for his family.

60 years ago, women were objectified less than they are today, thanks to radical feminism.

30 years ago, certain types of photos in inappropriate contentography magazines were illegal.

10 years ago, it would be difficult to build a casino next to a high school (happened recently in my town).

10 years ago, it would be difficult to open a inappropriate content shop next to a church (happened recently in my town).

Maybe you like these things....I don't.

Was it better 100 years ago? if so, explain in what way it was better then?

Was it better 500 years ago? if so, explain in what way it was better then?

was it better 1000 or 2000 or 5000 years ago?

Were you alive in any of these years? I wasn't, and I doubt if anyone else was. The 50 years I can relate to. This was directed to the original poster...sorry,

Pericles · Nov 19, 2003

Ben Hur,

Should I jump through the same hoops and list all the benefits mankind enjoys today? Like longer lives, less disease, more children born alive, more mothers surviving births, cancer patients living longer, better medicine and food, better jobs and income, more freedom to worship than ever, including for believers living in communist countries, more bibles printed than ever, more christian radio and TV stations than ever before...blah blah blah!

You don't want inappropriate content shops opened? Go complain to your city council, be a councilman! You want your kids to pray? Take them out of public schools! You want the federal government to get is acts together? Go vote! You want laws to be in favor of the Church? Go to lawschool, become a judge, be active in the politcal process!

When you do all these things, then you earn the right to whine and complain that things are out of your control. When 80% of Americans claim to be Christians and only about 20% vote, they have absolutely NO RIGHT to whine about any of the things you put together.

Oh wait! I forgot! Jesus is coming back soon, so things are supposed to be this bad, so why bother to even make a difference?

Brain Damage · Nov 19, 2003

Pericles said:
People like you have been preaching the end of the world for hundreds or thousands of years, and EVERY SINGLE TIME, without failure, they were proven to be either scam artists, liars, or misguided souls. Which one are you?

Rather than throwing accusations around, show me one instance in which the "end of the world" crowd turned out to be right! Every single person that claimed the end of the world is at hand, and that the world is doomed, was proven a liar!

You can't prove some one is a liar if they are talking about an event that is yet to happen....... :scratch:

Big Mouth Nana · Nov 19, 2003

Plan 9 said:
Look, Deamiter is right. We haven't had the technology to adequately study sunspots for long enough to know if they're getting worse or not. We haven't even had decent weather records for much over a hundred years.
People, Christian or not, are always saying that things are worse now than in "The Good Old Days". Now that I'm old enough to remember a period that Americans to young to remember themselves choose to consider "The Good Old Days", I'm very sceptical of that tendency in people.
If anything, the Four Horsemen ride through less than they used to.

Look, there are natural disasters all over the world every year, some years more than others. When I see disasters worse than the bubonic plague where a full third of a civilization (now the whole world) is wiped out then I MIGHT get worried. Until then, I'll continue to live as instructed in the Bible, as if Jesus is coming back soon with the caveat that we will never be able to predict his coming.

Matt. 24:24 lists the things to watch for regarding the end times. When we get to the point of 1/3 of the population being wiped out, then it is to late, we are in the tribulation period. We are in the signs of the things that happen before the tribulation, which I believe we are going through.
I am not setting dates on Christs return here, and never have. No one knows that, but God the Father, like I have stated before. If anyone thinks that things haven't changed considerably, then they need to quit playing "ostrich", and pull their heads out of the sand. Be NOT caught unaware, blind to the "signs".

How can we possibly convince you if you consider yourself to be more qualified than Christian professors (many of whom are very conservative young earth creationists) who have studied this topic (astrophysics) for 50 or more years?

God is smarter then any Christian professors, or earth creationists. This is laughable!!!! When I start listening to those in the science fields 100%, instead of the Spirit of God, then I am doomed, as well as others. God will confound the wisdom of the "so called" wise.

Ben_Hur · Nov 19, 2003

Pericles said:
Ben Hur,

Should I jump through the same hoops and list all the benefits mankind enjoys today? Like longer lives, less disease, more children born alive, more mothers surviving births, cancer patients living longer, better medicine and food, better jobs and income, more freedom to worship than ever, including for believers living in communist countries, more bibles printed than ever, more christian radio and TV stations than ever before...blah blah blah!

You don't want inappropriate content shops opened? Go complain to your city council, be a councilman! You want your kids to pray? Take them out of public schools! You want the federal government to get is acts together? Go vote! You want laws to be in favor of the Church? Go to lawschool, become a judge, be active in the politcal process!

When you do all these things, then you earn the right to whine and complain that things are out of your control. When 80% of Americans claim to be Christians and only about 20% vote, they have absolutely NO RIGHT to whine about any of the things you put together.

Oh wait! I forgot! Jesus is coming back soon, so things are supposed to be this bad, so why bother to even make a difference?

You sure like to pick and choose from my posts, don't you? I started off saying you would have do DEFINE "WORSE," meaning that some probably like those things; some probably are ok with the trade off...

Of course, you completely ignored that. Makes me wonder about your witness of your preterist theology. You're doing exactly what you accuse DF's of doing (picking and choosing). Are you doing that with preterism?

I can whine about anything I want. Many of those things you told me to do in order to gain the right to whine...I do. So, I'm glad that you approve, because after all, your approval is what I live for <sarcasm>.

Oh, and that comment on Jesus coming back and implying that Chrisitans are lazy because of it....rather divisive thing to say, don't you think?

Big Mouth Nana · Nov 19, 2003

Pericles said:
Ben Hur,

Should I jump through the same hoops and list all the benefits mankind enjoys today? Like longer lives, less disease, more children born alive, more mothers surviving births, cancer patients living longer, better medicine and food, better jobs and income, more freedom to worship than ever, including for believers living in communist countries, more bibles printed than ever, more christian radio and TV stations than ever before...blah blah blah!

You don't want inappropriate content shops opened? Go complain to your city council, be a councilman! You want your kids to pray? Take them out of public schools! You want the federal government to get is acts together? Go vote! You want laws to be in favor of the Church? Go to lawschool, become a judge, be active in the politcal process!

When you do all these things, then you earn the right to whine and complain that things are out of your control. When 80% of Americans claim to be Christians and only about 20% vote, they have absolutely NO RIGHT to whine about any of the things you put together.

Oh wait! I forgot! Jesus is coming back soon, so things are supposed to be this bad, so why bother to even make a difference?

Go vote! You want laws to be in favor of the Church? Go to lawschool, become a judge, be active in the politcal process!

Why, so some heathenistic judge can come along and change your ruling. What a joke!!!!!

armothe · Nov 19, 2003

By His Grace said:
Why, so some heathenistic judge can come along and change your ruling. What a joke!!!!!

Well let's just all give up!

-A

Big Mouth Nana · Nov 19, 2003

armothe said:
Well let's just all give up!

-A

Give up? Yes, I have given up on this worlds way of doing things. Justice has been thrown out the window. Isaiah 59:4 None calleth for JUSTICE, nor any pleadeth for truth: they trust in vanity, and speak lies; they conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity.
This is where this world is right now. We were put on this earth by God to win the lost. If we were here to change the worlds system, then there would be no need for heaven, we could have it right here. God wouldn't have mentioned the signs of the end, now would He? He knew where this world is headed, and we are SO there right now.

This earth is not our home, so why is everyone wanting to change what God already said was going to happen :scratch:

?

armothe · Nov 19, 2003

By His Grace said:
Give up? Yes, I have given up on this worlds way of doing things.

That's nice. And what will that accomplish?

By His Grace said:
Justice has been thrown out the window.
Isaiah 59:4 None calleth for JUSTICE, nor any pleadeth for truth: they trust in vanity, and speak lies; they conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity.

By His Grace said:
This is where this world is right now.

No, that is where the world was in Isaiah's time.

By His Grace said:
We were put on this earth by God to win the lost.

So.....are you going to do what God wants, or are you giving up? I'm confused.

By His Grace said:
This earth is not our home, so why is everyone wanting to change what God already said was going to happen?

Where do you live? Mars?

-A

Wills · Nov 19, 2003

By His Grace said:
.

This earth is not our home, so why is everyone wanting to change what God already said was going to happen ?

The Space Station is not on Earth, but sin takes place there. The humans there are not on Earth.

It is not the Planet earth that is the problem.

It is the free to wander human brain.

We do not need to leave the Planet to correct that.

Big Mouth Nana · Nov 19, 2003

armothe said:
[/color]
That's nice. And what will that accomplish? Well, actually I am not trying to accomplish anything, except to win the lost. He didn't order us to try and change the world, just the peoples hearts.

No, that is where the world was in Isaiah's time.[/color][/font]Excuse me armothe ???? I would have to say that the world is in alot worse shape now then Isaiahs time. Gods Word is "timeless'. Jesus birth was foretold in Genesis, and all through the old testement, but yet he didn't show up until Matthew. That's like saying that there was no justice except in Isaiahs time.

So.....are you going to do what God wants, or are you giving up? I'm confused. I am doing what God wants, are you? God didn't tell me to run for office, and try to change laws

Where do you live? Mars?
No, but I am wondering about your residence, 1111 Sleepytime Rd.

-A

This is it in a nutshell. People have trusted elected leaders to do right by them for several years. That plan has not worked for the most part. Know why? Because they weren't "Godly" leaders. know who's fault that is? OURS!!!! It is no different then when the Israelites screamed that they wanted Saul for King. Look what happened there. God will give you who you want, even if it is not His choice....Freewill recall? You have font problems.

SIGNS IN THE HEAVENS AND EARTH?

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Christian

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Absolutely Elsewhere

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow

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Post Tribulationist

Me at the Races...

Post Tribulationist

Christian

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Post Tribulationist

Me at the Races...

Post Tribulationist

Living in HIS kingdom...

Post Tribulationist

Living in HIS kingdom...

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Post Tribulationist

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