Satan is history ?

Christi · Apr 15, 2002

The Unknown, I agree.
And RKF, why do you have to be so mean all the time?

davo · Apr 15, 2002

Originally posted by Catchup
Was it not bad enough that you tried to humiliate me with your attempt at humor? What is this all about? I Have led a life of devotion to God. I have not had to struggle with any of these sins. You do not know me but you have accused and found me guilty. There was nothing Satanic about my experiences. That is in your mind...not mine.

I was told of a loving God, who only wished for us to know him and be good. There was one proof given that seemed only to come from God. Many people witnessed. I have had some extraordinary beautiful, and extremely interesting experiences.I was also given other tangible proofs of things that religion has long questioned. Nothing was ever a figment of my imagination. But all of this information and experiences, although good...did not mention Christ. I am very firm in my beliefs. I searched the message and found a sort of loop hole. For within the words was a sentence that religion was good for us and that we should hold our beliefs to the highest of convictions. There it was. I found my way out. I no longer needed to struggle. For the true Christian knows that Christ is the only way, truth and light.

I will not know till this life is done, whether I have failed God or passed a test. I know though that if it were God, he will find another way. I have free will but he has control of the destiny of this world. If it was Satan he failed miserably. Because everything that happened only brought me closer to God and firmer in my beliefs. I now know by fact what I already known by Faith. There is a God and a dimension to our life that we are unable to see or understand. Even when given a glimpse, we can still not comprehend. There is much more and much less to this world and our life than we know.

Please Davo, think before you post.
I will not post anymore on this subject. I would not want to be the catalyst that causes you to act in an un-Christ-like manner.

LOVE

WOH Catchup back up -where did all THAT come from

Have you checked your message centre -I replied with an appology to your complaint to me at my attempt to lighten things up with a bit of failed humour, re ketchup.

It beggers belief that some how you have taken personally what I was addressing to ALL, about my current thoughts on "the topic at hand" -You said "What is this all about? I Have led a life of devotion to God." NOTHING in any of what I wrote was in anyway about YOU. One scripture does however come to mind "don't think of yourself more highly than you ought".

Now Catchup, I don't know you or your history (nor do I need to). If however some button of yours has been inadvertently pushed have the grace and maturity to deal with it yourself, without dumping as you have.

I went back and checked the posts to make sure I hadn't missed something -talk about a 'glass jaw' -"Davo: You have no idea. LOVE"

Feel free to explain your post :scratch:

davo

GW · Apr 15, 2002

Originally posted by Catchup
Where do you get your understanding of the Bible? Is this part of your teachings from your Church or do you conceive it by yourself?

Hi Catchup, and Christ's peace.

We all agree that Revelation sums things up. Since we believe it was a vision for St. John's time as he said (Rev 1:1, 1:3; 22:6-7: 22:10-11) then we have the victory prescribed in the book now.

Satan was defeated comprehensively and the Church now has all dominion and power. Jesus did not fail to accomplish his mission as stated in Heb 2:14-15, 1 Jn 3:8, John 12:31, Rev 12:10 etc. etc.

GW · Apr 15, 2002

Originally posted by TheUnknown
The greatest thing that Satan could ever do, is convince man that he doesn't exist.
I believe that he has no power over us, unless we give it too him, but that in no way means that he is defeated. Not by a long shot. He can still get you

The greatest thing that the Church can ever do is convince man that satan is defeated and under the feet of Christ and the Church now and forever.

parousia70 · Apr 15, 2002

Originally posted by RKF
You preterest guys are nuts. You don't seem to realize what your saying is not anywhere near the truth. Jesus defeated death hell and the grave but the final judgement on satan is coming but it hasn't happened yet.

But RKF, Scripture says the Last enemy to be destroyed is Death, but you seem to disagree, asserting that Satans demise happens "after the last enemy is destroyed"

Since the Last enemy to be destroyed is death, how can you substantiate a belief that there are any enemies left after that?

Seems you are the one who isn't anywhere near the truth. (JMHO of course)

davo · Apr 15, 2002

Originally posted by TheUnknown
He can still get you, no matter how much you think he can't. Or how much you believe in Christ.

TheUnknown, do you believe this scripture, or is it a case of salvation/deliverance/protection etc by works?:

1 John 5:18 (NASV) We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.

Originally posted by TheUnknown
He knows your weaknesses. You're in a false sense of security and the sooner you realise that, the better off you'll be. Resisting Satan is a constant battle. One that will last for the rest of you life. It's up to you whether you will let him win or not.

I think you'll find ONLY God is omniscient -he knows our infirmities. Also, Jesus took the battle right up to the devil and won outright -salvation is resting in the finished work of Christ.

Blessings.

davo

Ephesian · Apr 15, 2002

Originally posted by davo
When Jesus came in judgment/deliverance in AD70 Satan along with death (and others) were thrown into the LOF.

Sure people dabble in all soughts of evil things -and pay the price for it, however you don't need the devil or demons for that -the unregenerate heart of man IS fully capable of such evil (Jer 17:9)

I am not sure how AD70 becomes the completion on Biblical Prophecy. Revelations was written in AD90 and it was written with the future in mind, not twenty years ago. Or, am I confused in what you Preterests believe. (I admit, Preterest is a knew term to me) All I have read so far are a bunch of verses that you assume back up your interpretation of scripture, but those very same scriptures don't necessarily back that up at all.

Anyway, the unregenerate heart certainly is capable of all sorts of evil. However, I can tell you there is a distinct difference between the evil that men do and the presence of a supernatural EVIL. I am not one that sees devils hiding under every rock, but to deny that reality is like putting on blinders.

Catchup · Apr 15, 2002

I was curious about one question that was not addressed. Where did you arrive at the teaching that Satan has already been thrown into the Lake of Fire? I believe that time is to come with the judgement of the world...at the "End of Times". So do you also believe that the world has been judged...or was it cancelled?

At any rate, I am sure you do not convey the common belief held by most Christian churches...if any.
What denomination teaches the messages you are posting?

I know my Bible well. I can see that the verses, you quote to back up your stance, are out of context. You also ignore verses that do not agree with you. I do not have the time to relate to all your misconceptions.

So I am asking again... Can I dismiss this as merely individuals who have decided to make the Bible say what they wish to hear....Or can you tell me...
What denomination of Christianity do you belong?

LOVE

davo · Apr 15, 2002

Originally posted by TheUnknown If Satan was defeated, then why isn't there peace in the world?.

Because the heart of man is evil ABOVE ALL ELSE Jer 17:9.

Have you noticed Rev 22:2 (KJV) In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Futurists say this is a revamped world -a new physical re-creation. They are wrong! The is the new creation in Christ i.e., "born again", 2 Cor 5:17. Can you see that sin is still present -it has to be, because people are still in need of "healing". The eternal Gospel [leaves of the trees] is what the church ministers to the nations continually, brining Christ's healing.

Originally posted by TheUnknown Why are we still tempted to do the things which we know aren't right?

Because each one of us is tempted and drawn aside by OUR OWN desires and enticed James 1:14-15.

Originally posted by TheUnknown But telling ppl that he's been defeated gives them a false sense of hope.

I find it interesting that you link the devil's defeat with hope -Oh that you would see how true this is.

Blessings

davo

rollinTHUNDER · Apr 15, 2002

Originally posted by GW

The greatest thing that the Church can ever do is convince man that satan is defeated and under the feet of Christ and the Church now and forever.

You have been deceived already. If this is true, that Satan is already defeated, then why are millions of christians still being martyred??? What evil force is responsible for this madness??? The danger of the preterists view, is that you will not be ready and waiting when the Bridegroom calls, infact, I've read some of your posts that say you want to be left behind. I am not name calling here, but I am very concerned for your very souls. And if Christ returns and grants your preterist wishes, you could also be tricked into receiving the mark of the beast, which would guarantee your separation from God forever. Heres what I see in your views, and this is not an attack against you, but you better be right, or you're in big trouble.

I think we all can see that you preterists are correct in some of your interpretations, but what I see is that you only receive the scriptures for there face value. There is no faith needed. You take it all in the natural, or with your human minds, which blocks the Holy Spirits spiritual guidance into all truth, and opening up your understanding to the word of truth. In other words, it appears that you can only understand like a lost man understands, and the lost man is blind. Don't take that as a cut down, because it was not intended that way. I'm just trying to show how bad you could really miss everything, including your rewards. These verses remind me of your views.

Jude 17-21 - "But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. (18)They said to you, "In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires. (19)These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the spirit. (20) But you, dear friends, build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in the Holy Spirit. (21)Keep yourselves in God's love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life."

Look in verse 21 - Although they were already born again, they were still waiting for eternal life. This world is not as terrific as you say. There are still thorns and thistles, and women still have severe pain when they give birth, and we still have murders, theft evil is running wild everywhere. If you Preterists are wrong, then you could miss everything. Just something to think about. I wouldn't take it lightly. It appears that you are gambling your whole lives on it, while the rest of us are watching and waiting like the good book says. Be very, very careful my friends.

Catchup · Apr 15, 2002

Davo : Are you ignoring my question or possibly was it overlooked??

Futurists say this is a revamped world -a new physical re-creation. They are wrong!

Futurists, as you call us, receive this guidance not only from our own interpretation of the Bible but from the teachings of the Church.

I belief your teaching to be false. What denomination interprets the Bible in the way you present?

Now I know you can see my question. lol

Could you please honor me with an answer?

LOVE

GW · Apr 15, 2002

Originally posted by Ephesian
I am not sure how AD70 becomes the completion on Biblical Prophecy.

Jesus promised his apostles:

Matthew 24:33-34
"So, YOU too [the apostles], when YOU see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place."

Matthew 23:36
"Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation"

Originally posted by Ephesian
Revelations was written in AD90 and it was written with the future in mind, not twenty years ago.

Revelation was written in 66-68AD under the sixth Caesar (Rev 17:10) who was Nero and during the jewish persecution of the Church (Rev 2:9 and Rev 3:9). The Temple was still standing (Rev 11:2). Jerusalem, the Great City, was under siege (Rev 11:8 and 11:13). That was the siege led by the Romans and its Ten imperial provinces (Rev 17:16-18).

click links:
DATING REVELATION -- AD 66-68

BEFORE JERUSALEM FELL
by Kenneth Gentry
--the definitive book on the dating of Revelation

--FINALLY--
Revelation was most certainly not written with the future in mind. It was written for St. John and his contemporaries as explicitly stated:

Revelation 1:1,3
This is the Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things WHICH MUST HAPPEN SOON ... Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and keep the things that are written in it FOR THE TIME IS AT HAND.

GW · Apr 15, 2002

Originally posted by TheUnknown
If Satan was defeated, then why isn't there peace in the world?. Why are religions still against each other?

Because in the final state the wicked stand just outside the gates of the New Jeruslalem city (Revelation 22:14-15). We are safely inside the covenanted Church, but just outside are the dogs and liars and the fornicators and idolaters etc.

And, the Church has the tree of life whose leaves have been given to us for the healing of the nations (Rev 22:2).

Originally posted by TheUnknown
If ya want to stick you head in the sand then that's fine. But telling ppl that he's been defeated gives them a false sense of hope.

Click to expand...

The Gospel of the Kingdom really is that hopeful and all powerful.

parousia70 · Apr 15, 2002

Originally posted by Catchup
I was curious about one question that was not addressed. Where did you arrive at the teaching that Satan has already been thrown into the Lake of Fire? I believe that time is to come with the judgement of the world...at the "End of Times". So do you also believe that the world has been judged...or was it cancelled?

At any rate, I am sure you do not convey the common belief held by most Christian churches...if any.
What denomination teaches the messages you are posting?

I know my Bible well. I can see that the verses, you quote to back up your stance, are out of context. You also ignore verses that do not agree with you. I do not have the time to relate to all your misconceptions.

So I am asking again... Can I dismiss this as merely individuals who have decided to make the Bible say what they wish to hear....Or can you tell me...
What denomination of Christianity do you belong?

LOVE

Hi Catchup, Preterists can be found coming from all denominations.
I myself come from a Presbyterian, then Catholic background.

If you are looking for a list of Churches that teach "realized eschatology", click HERE , and/or HERE , for several links to get you started.

As for your statement that preterism is not conveyed by most Churches today, you are absolutely correct, but you must surely know that just because a particular view is "popular", dosen't make it "right" don't you?
In fact, even today, the prevailing view held by most people on planet earth is that Jesus is NOT the Messiah.
Go figure

Oh well, that is changing even as I type, as the Church continues to roll on in victory, as it is forever destined to do.

You say you know your Bible well, and I'm sure you do, and I know my bible well too, but I also know I have much more to learn about it, Don't you?

When you say Satans Judgement is for the "end of times" you do know that nowhere in scripture can we find the "end of time" prophesied don't you? In fact Scripture teaches that the Kingdom, and the generations of man, and the earth itself are all to continue "forever" (Ps. 104:5; 145:13; Eccl. 1:4; Dan. 4:3,34; 7:14,18,27; Lk. 1:33; Eph. 3:21).

YBIC,
P70

Catchup · Apr 15, 2002

GW, Davo, and whomever???

I belief your teaching to be false. What denomination interprets the Bible in the way you present?

LOVE

Catchup · Apr 15, 2002

I will make it easy on you. I will give you the correct answer....

NONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gday

LOVE

parousia70 · Apr 15, 2002

Originally posted by Catchup
I will make it easy on you. I will give you the correct answer....

NONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gday

LOVE

Apparantly you didn't visit the links I gave.
It would seem that you really don't want to have your have your question answered after all.

Thats OK, I understand your reluctance to investigate these things for yourself. Perhaps you're afraid of what you might find, I don't know. I was once afraid too, until the truth of past fulfillment freed me from the shackels of my fear.

God's riches to you in your journey!
YBIC,
P70

Ephesian · Apr 15, 2002

Originally posted by GW

Jesus promised his apostles:

Matthew 24:33-34
"So, YOU too [the apostles], when YOU see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place."

Matthew 23:36
"Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation"

Revelation was written in 66-68AD ...[/color]

However, when you read verse 33 in light of verse 32 it doesn't necessarily mean that at all. Verse 32 basically says by looking at the signs you can tell when summer is near,Even so you too means in likewise manner they could tell by looking at the signs they would know. NOWHERE does it say they would see the signs. THIS GENERATION doen't mean their generation, it means the generation that DOES see all the signs.

And of course, there are many great scholars today that date Revelations between AD90 and AD95. A small matter of 30 some years which really means very little to "a futurist" but means the world to a "preterest" for obvious reasons.

But I will say this...I love you guys and I love the fact that we discuss this as friends and brothers and sisters without alot of animosity

I am glad I found this website.

GW · Apr 15, 2002

Originally posted by Ephesian
However, when you read verse 33 in light of verse 32 it doesn't necessarily mean that at all. Verse 32 basically says by looking at the signs you can tell when summer is near,Even so you too means in likewise manner they could tell by looking at the signs they would know.

The "YOU" all throughout Matthew 24 is the apostles to whom Jesus is speaking. Grammatically and contextually that is the "YOU." In all the following verses the "YOU" is the apostles to whom Jesus is speaking: 24:2, 4, 6, 9, 15, 20, 23, 25, 26, 33, 34. We know just before Jesus starts into the passage of Matthew 24 he says:

Matthew 23:35-36
upon you will fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon THIS generation.

Next, very many translators understand Matthew 24:33-34 and emphasize it [as is the traditional understanding of the verse in Church history] :

New English Bible:
"I tell you this: the present generation will live to see it all."

Today's English Version:
"Remember this! All these things will happen before the people now living have all died."

Moffatt's Translation:
"I tell you truly, the present generation will not pass away, till all this happens."

Contemporary English Version:
I can promise you that some of the people of this generation will still be alive when all this happens.

Weymouth's Translation:
"I tell you in solemn truth that the present generation will certainly not pass away until all this has taken place."

King James:
"Verily I say unto you, this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

Finally, Revelation was written in 66-68 AD under the persecution which came under Nero. The jewish persecution was still in full swing (Rev 2:9, 3:9). The temple was still standing (Rev 11:1-2). Jerusalem, labeled the "GREAT CITY" in Revelation 11:8, was under siege by the Romans (Rev 11:13; Rev 17:16-18). Nero was the 6th Caesar and mentioned as such in Rev 17:10 [although some scholars think it could als have been the 6th of the Herodian dynasty].

Catchup · Apr 15, 2002

James 3:31 Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.

LOVE

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