Information war and Jews

Fish · Apr 9, 2002

Glad to see some discussion on this topic.
Thanks, but I have all the info I need on the Liberty topic..
Why does any serious discussion on this topic always
have a party bringing up Hitler?
So the Jews "Puchased" the occupied territories?
Kind of like Americans bought their land? Give us
a break, we are not that naive. We as Americans
are equally as guilty, but our oppressed foes are
pretty much wiped out and politically weak. Of course
as comfy Americans do not even think about our nations
own sins against humanity, we seem to be fixated
on the middle east.
Us Gentiles, goyum, heathens need to fight for Israel.
Pollard has given our military secrets to Israel, who
has sold them to China, and many unsavory players.
How many British did Jewish terrorists kill in the
1940's?
Fish

Shane Roach · Apr 9, 2002

Well you're stuck in 1940-1970 and as I mentioned, most Americans are more familair with the massive international terror of Islaam over the last few decades, not just in Israel but worldwide.

That's the reason why I sense most Americans are not real tolerant of the idea of Palestine-as-victim. I really would be intrested to know, however, what the deal in Europe is. I think the difference is Europe is mindful of the 40 years or so of Israeli occupation of the west bank, whereas for whatever reason most Americans think, "Jews-Holocaust-Israel. Leave them alone!" The whole hostage crisis really bred an entire generation of Americans who have a constant low-grade dislike of Arabs and Islaam.

And I mean, technically Iran isn't even Arab is it? that's "Persian". But la la la la who cares in the USA.

They just blew it with us with the hostages and its gone downhill since then. I also think in general Islaamic countries were cozier with the USSR than us all through the Cold War, which didn't help their rep here either. Iraq had a lot of USSR weapons and really, pre Iran-Contra Iran's weapons came from the Soviets too. Saudi Arabia has been closer to the US.

I just always revert to Islaam as conquorer though. I mean people complain and complain about the Christian crusades but let Islaam spread through violence and military means all through the middle of Asia and into the far east and does anyone care? noop.

Fascinating.

Yauming · Apr 9, 2002

Originally posted by Fish
So the Jews "Puchased" the occupied territories?
Kind of like Americans bought their land? Give us
a break, we are not that naive. We as Americans
are equally as guilty, but our oppressed foes are
pretty much wiped out and politically weak. Of course
Fish

Really? Next time some North American Indian terrorist group blows up a kindergarden or high school - I'm sure you'll be ready to leave the "occupied terrorities" and return sovereignity back to the oppressed Indian nations who have been languishing cruelly in the reservations concentration camps! Just kidding

I agree that Israel should stop its occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip. But the PLO must also stop the extreme activities of the Hamas and Hezbollah factions.

http://www.geocities.com/willow1d/
I am a tree that stands tall yet frail.
My branches reach out but cannot hail
The remains of this forsaken world
And nature forgotten, unwontedly hurled.
Take my branch and your might can twist,
But I will not snap from only your jest.
Nor will I lash out in vengeful strike
But in the breeze Ill return as right.

Dilgalisgi Uwangatlv

RKF · Apr 10, 2002

Originally posted by Shane Roach

The Philistines were in Canaan. Palestine as a word is derived from the very word that means Philistine. Furthermore, whatever mandate Israel had to destroy all foreigners in Canaan is long since past.

No it is not. The Palestinians are from Ishmael, who is the son of Hagar and Abraham. The philistines were a different race altogether

I wasn't saying that they have a right to kill them Just that the land was given to them by God forever to own!

Shane Roach · Apr 10, 2002

Arabs come from Ishmael, theoretically, although really I have no idea if that is independently verifiable historically. But the word Palestine is directly related to Philstines and Philistia, and this is not something that can be debated back and forth. You either are aware of the thing, or you aren't. Sure they are descended from Ham, through Casluhim. Fine, but they are still Philistia. Ishmael comes later in the story. Perhaps through interbreeding you believe they are now more Arab than Philistine, but since all these tribal groups are closely related anyhow, this is not likely to be anything anyone is going to care about. The Palestinian claim to the land is no weaker because of it.

If your interpretation is that the land still belongs to Israel alone, fine, but my point is that is not aposition likely to be taken to heart by the Palestinians, nor indeed anyone else in the world. This belief of yours is basically a Zionist view and many find it unfair because people are pushed off the land they were born in without any sort of due process of law or anything else.

Fish · Apr 10, 2002

That is kind of my point. If a religous book says a God
gave the land {U.S. in this example} to a Native
American nation, who has remained racially pure for a
couple of thousand years. A foreign power, helped
this Native American nation occupy land in the U.S.,
and the people that had been living there for 250 years
were forced out of their homes, to live in refugee camps
and become second class citizens of this "Indian"
nation. Don't you think these displaced "Americans"
would be angry and militant? The Palestinians have
been living there for considerably longer. The attitude
of why don't they pack up and go back to whereever
they came from is silly, as they have lived there for
centuries. It is the Israelis who are the conquerers,
invaders, and occupiers. The naive attitude of "Why
do they hate us so much?" is quite apparent.
Using the bible as an excuse for invading and occupying
other people's land is not right, no matter how you
wish to try to justify it.
Fish

Tyler · Apr 10, 2002

Originally posted by Fish
Rolling Thunder,
You have kind of unknowingly hit upon the reason why the Palestinians are angry. They have been forced
out of their homes, and many have been in refugee
camps for decades. But pondering why they don't
go back to where they were before the Jews showed up
is kind of silly and immature. You tend to simplify real
problems by by reasoning and logic that can best be
described as racist.
The Jews that settled in Palestine came in great numbers after WWII, and a lot of terrorism was going
on then too. But the terrorists then were Jewish,
killing and bombing the British.
What to do with the millions of displaced Palestinians
that were forced out of their homes is the main problem.
Living in Israel they are second class citizens with no
voice and few rights. Don't you think they deserve
a a right to have their own government? Would you be
upset if your family was forced out of your home at
gunpoint and they were made to live in a camp for
the rest of their lives?
The attitudes of many on this forum are not very
Christ-like in regards to Arabs, and some are downright
bloodthirsty. To oversimplify the issues and make racist
comments only fan the flames more on a big enough
fire. I am not pro- arab or pro-jew, just know that there
are two sides to every coin.
As far as a pro-Israel bias in the news media, that
is fairly obvious. Nixon and Billy Graham could see the
obvious. That discussion was not too long after the
attack on the U.S.S. Liberty. Of course none of you all
here know about that. 34 U.S. sailors were butchered
by Israelis aircraft.
Sorry to barge in on your happy little forum with a bit of truth.
Fish

If you want to know the truth read the Bible, it will tell you why the Jews are where they are! We all know the story of the palestinians, weren't they the ones dancing in the streets and cheering after 9-11???

Fish · Apr 11, 2002

Truth is quite relative. That is an easy out for any
discussion on this topic. The bible tells little of the current problems in the mideast, and does not
condone Israel's current actions. Other than quoting my whole post, could you please discuss specific
contentions with my post?
Fish

coastie · Apr 11, 2002

Racially pure, Fish?

Why would this be a value? Is it wrong to mix races?

Fish · Apr 11, 2002

According to the Jews it is. I used that term as it seems to somehow prove that the Jews are right. That they have retained their cultural identity{racially pure} seems
to convince some that God must be behind them all the
way. Zionism is racism , any other thinking about it is
silly. The racist tone on this forum is shocking as well,
pretending to be a Christian forum.
Fish

coastie · Apr 11, 2002

Explain how you have come to the conclusion that this site is racist. Toward what race does it appear that we are showing favoritism?

Your statements are unfounded because you have no quotes or proof. Making vast generalizations of a group of people or this forums participants will not win you any points in a debate here.

Show me where I have been racist and I will repent. If you cannot, do not post unless you can give us some sort of factual information. We are open to non-offensive and polite rhetoric, but not to people who throw out ideas without backing them up.

Understand that there is a difference between debate and throwing verbal stones.

Shane Roach · Apr 11, 2002

Originally posted by Fish
According to the Jews it is. I used that term as it seems to somehow prove that the Jews are right. That they have retained their cultural identity{racially pure} seems
to convince some that God must be behind them all the
way. Zionism is racism , any other thinking about it is
silly. The racist tone on this forum is shocking as well,
pretending to be a Christian forum.
Fish

Exodus 12:48-49 makes it clear that anyone can become a Jew by circumcision and keeping the law, and that all people are to be treated equally under the law in Israel.

One might argue back and forth if the present policy of Israel upholds this teaching. Certainly though there ARE Jews who loudly and vocally support the Palestinian cause. The problem lies in the habitual terrrorism of Muslims, worldwide.

I would point out that even Europe only supports the Palestinian cause inasmuch as it calls for Israel to let Palestine control its own borders. If Palestine wants to control its own borders, then Israel must have that right as well. But Palestine consistently wants to have it both ways, excluding Jews from Palestine but demanding the right of return for displaced Palestinians back into Israel.

coastie · Apr 12, 2002

Oh yeah...

Back to Fish about the USS Liberty.

I don't know how much you know about the incident, but it was an accident largely the fault of the US Navy.

This incident changed a lot of policies for the US Navy and the Israeli Air Force actually thought that the ship was an egyptian ship that had been previously reported to be possibly planning to attack El Arish.

This incident is completely irrelevant in this argument.

And don't play conspiracy theory with me. I wont buy it.

Fish · Apr 12, 2002

Well that clears a lot up!! I am sure the family of those
murdered are glad to hear it is our fault! Why was it
covered up ? It os relevant since we are on the brink
of WWIII for the sake of Israel!! The one sided junk
put out bt this forum would make any clear headed
individual feeling ill.

RKF · Apr 13, 2002

The WWW3 will be USA vs China. Israel has it's own problems. That problem began with Ismael, and will end with Jesus.

Fish · Apr 14, 2002

What scripture tells the war between China and the
U.S.A.?

RKF · Apr 16, 2002

RKF Chapter 1 verse 1

coastie · Apr 16, 2002

Well that clears a lot up!! I am sure the family of those
murdered are glad to hear it is our fault! Why was it
covered up ? It os relevant since we are on the brink
of WWIII for the sake of Israel!!

What Fish?

You call this clear headed?

Mudered? These sailors were killed by accident. Being at see on a military ship is inherently dangerous. These people volunteered for the job knowing the dangers.

How is this covered up? You could find this information on an interenet news archive if you looked. What probably happened is that we didn't have enough info about this incident when it first happened and when the investigation was finally complete the average viewer had lost interest in the issue.

The one sided junk
put out bt this forum would make any clear headed
individual feeling ill.

Do you not like the forum? I think you just didn't like my answer. This is not one sided in anyway, these are the facts. Your passion for the issues does not allow for one to believe that you are clear headed. Maybe you could try an approach that wouldn't insult us.

Information war and Jews

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