What is Evolution?

AYEEE!!!

Does the bible SAY anything about giant flesh eating reptiles? No! Does the bible say anything about a creature that resembles a stegosaurus or a triceratops? No!

No, instead you get mythical representations like the Laviathan (fire breathing water creatures? spare me), cocatrice (look at him and turn to stone), the "tannin" or whatever sea monsters are called these days, and the Behemoth which is prolly a freakin' hippo to begin with.

You see, the bible offers no clues to the fossil record either. NONE!!!! Did god (if he exists) create it? If so, when in genesis does he create giant bi-pedal flesh eating reptiles (tryannosaurs and kin)?

The bible is even moreso non compatible with the fossil record through the creation story and the genesis account isn't it?

We are both on the same ground, except, we arn't on equal footing.

My only problem is that this does not prove evolution. I have stated repeatedly that I don't think any of this can be proven or disporven. There are problems with both ideas about how the world was formed and where life comes from, but instead of admiting that you just continually resis tthe fact that you cannot prove the assertion.

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Oh, and how compatible is it with holy scripture? If it dosn't prove or disprove our theory, how is it compatble with the bible?

Originally posted by Zadok
Oh, and how compatible is it with holy scripture? If it dosn't prove or disprove our theory, how is it compatble with the bible?

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The bible has the answer. "God did it."

You see, the bible offers no clues to the fossil record either.

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Just so as not to confuse, I meant this as pertaining to evolutionary theory...

The bible has the answer. "God did it."

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God did it? When, where, at what time?

If the bible gives answers, where is the one for this?

Originally posted by Zadok
AYEEE!!!

Does the bible SAY anything about giant flesh eating reptiles? No! Does the bible say anything about a creature that resembles a stegosaurus or a triceratops? No!

No, instead you get mythical representations like the Laviathan (fire breathing water creatures? spare me), cocatrice (look at him and turn to stone), the "tannin" or whatever sea monsters are called these days, and the Behemoth which is prolly a freakin' hippo to begin with.

You see, the bible offers no clues to the fossil record either. NONE!!!! Did god (if he exists) create it? If so, when in genesis does he create giant bi-pedal flesh eating reptiles (tryannosaurs and kin)?

The bible is even moreso non compatible with the fossil record through the creation story and the genesis account isn't it?

We are both on the same ground, except, we arn't on equal footing.



Oh, and how compatible is it with holy scripture? If it dosn't prove or disprove our theory, how is it compatble with the bible?

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The Bible doesn't mention a lot of animals. I find this a rather emotional argument.

The reason you seem to think you are on superior footing is because you discount the possiblity of a sentient and powerful being. In fact, there is clear evidence that we ourselves are spiritual beings, as there is no convenient explanation for consciousness. There are debates to be sure, but the esoteric nature of them leaves evolution in the dirt. The bottom line is, if the world was designed by a conscious being, there is no bluwprint from which to extract why or how it was made in any specific way.

This is why a person who believes in the creation as the Bible teaches does not believe it because of science. Indeed, if one found God's signature on a rock somewhere in the Labrea tar pits, it would rather upset the concept of salvation by grace through faith.

I point out the mulitiplicity of problems with the theory of evolution because it is the only one atheists have ever put foreward, and it is patently absurd. The universe popped into being from nowhere, and one tiny spec of life on one rock in the corner of one galaxy in millions of galaxies in the universe, one single living thing popped up and its progeny eventually developed into literally millions of different organisms.

Is it possible? Heck yes it's possible. But probable??? Please!? All of reality can seem pretty improbable if you look at it too closely, but there are some obvious things. We exist, therefore something has always existed. Whether or not that something was inanimate unthinking matter, or whether it was a spiritual being with power to create, is not yet determined.

Whats more probable, that the universe came about through natural order? or...

That god created the universe with full knowlege of his creations. He gives us "free" will yet knows the outcome of our actions making it destiny. He creates something, knowing it will fail, and then damns it and its decendants for all of eternity.

Then god came down and sacrificed himself to himself in order to prevent himself from condeming us ALL to hell because of the way he made us and for sins he knew we were going to commit.

Chose the right path of salvation or burn in hell for all eternity. Chose? God already knows the choice. You don't. Have fun picking the means of salvation that fits with what you "think" god wants while a million denominations, sects, and trillions of other theological standpoints on redemption claim the true path.

Did you pick the right path and religion? Gambling is a sin don't ya know?

Originally posted by Zadok
Whats more probable, that the universe came about through natural order? or...

That god created the universe with full knowlege of his creations. He gives us "free" will yet knows the outcome of our actions making it destiny. He creates something, knowing it will fail, and then damns it and its decendants for all of eternity.

Then god came down and sacrificed himself to himself in order to prevent himself from condeming us ALL to hell because of the way he made us and for sins he knew we were going to commit.

Chose the right path of salvation or burn in hell for all eternity. Chose? God already knows the choice. You don't. Have fun picking the means of salvation that fits with what you "think" god wants while a million denominations, sects, and trillions of other theological standpoints on redemption claim the true path.

Did you pick the right path and religion? Gambling is a sin don't ya know?

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Interesting. So God is at fault, and we are not. And you say the Bible teaches us that God is at fault, and we are not? Am I reading this coorectly?

You understanding is significantly skewed, as to what eh Bible actually implies.

Originally posted by Ray K


The concept of an "unforgivable sin" is contradictory to the notions of eternal life and a all-loving God.

You can't have both. As described by Christians, God has enough love and enough time to forgive anything.

If God exists as you describe him, how many of you in Heaven will be irked as God is forgiving the repentant sinners in Hell? Or will you be happy that someone in Hell was able to rejoin the flock?

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I don't think the Bible hypothesizes an "all loving" God in the sense you seem to be implying. Rather, it seems to put forth a belief that some people are, by their own choice, rebellious to the idea of treating others equally and kindly, and as long as they have a chance they will try to usurp power for their own ends, no matter who it hurts. In Genesis 11:6 there is the strong implication that mankind, acting together, can do anything at all, saving perhaps overcome God. This is the reason for the confusion of language and so forth.

Also, in Ezekiel you see the nature of Satan's fall (or Lucifer, if you prefer, there has been some discussion on these forums about the difference, but I find the terms to be interchangeable, along with "serpent" and "dragon" when preceded by the word "the". ) In any event, read Ezekiel 28, whole chapter, and you will find that the sin found in Satan was caused by Satan's own pride and desire to dominate by merchandise and trade. You may balk at reading these verses as pertaining to Satan, but because of the shift in verse 12 to refer to the King of Tyrus, and because of the descriptions that follow, most Christians take this to be referring to Satan.

In any event, this understanding has it that sin is found in a being who chooses to do wrong for corrupt purposes. The only thing I have ever been able to understand from a viewpoint like yours is, sometimes I very much resent God not just making a simpler world where such things did not happen. But I find in myself, when I begin to feel this, that I am unconvinced that all of creation should be made a certain way just so the evil people and beings who might take advantage of a freer and more "real" (for lack of a better descriptive) world could be safe from suffering of their own fault, from being selfish.

It's interesting that Marx took the view of religion that he did, as the Bible in specific is a very "communistic" document, claiming over and over again that the mighty must use their strength and power for the good of all. This is what God will do, according to the Bible.

Lastly, many people object strongly to the hypothesis laid out in the Bible that there is anyone who would rebel to God's face. Let them see God, the argument goes, and all would believe and obey. The Bible story however makes the point that Satan, Adam ,and Eve all rebel in full knowledge of who they are dealing with. The rest of the epic unfolds as a narrative of God repeatedly expressing what would be a good thing and people repeatedly turning their backs on charity and love. It culminates in the New Testament in Christ, come to us through the promise of the Jews, who as a people have rebelled, but by the faithfulness of a few have been saved and guarded for the purpose of illustrating God's promises are reliable. Much of what is, by all accounts, reliably dated as having been written, at the latest, in the first century AD, describes a progression of the Christian church that, sure enough, has come to pass. Who could have guessed in Julius Caesar's Rome that the Christian sect would grow to be one of the most powerful in the world?

You may not like this worldview, but it is by no means self contradictory.

Originally posted by Zadok
God did it? When, where, at what time?
If the bible gives answers, where is the one for this?

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Ahhh no matter. God did it. Whatever the answer is.

Umm...What happened here. I think the last several posts belong in the free will thread.

Does anyone object to me moving them over there?


John

nope.

Originally posted by TheBear
Umm...What happened here. I think the last several posts belong in the free will thread.

Does anyone object to me moving them over there?


John

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I find that free will as it pertains to how God may have made the universe is applicable to evolution. I think it's interesting that you would want them moved.

VERY interesting indeed.

Whats more probable, that the universe came about through natural order?

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What has the origin of the universe got to do with evolution?

Evolution and the Big Bang have nothing to do with whether God exists or not, it's more to do with whether we should take Genesis literally or not.