Can you lose your salvation??

Ok, interesting that Squelchmaster doesn't want to recieve either emails or pm's, but I had a very similar experience to his, without the voices in my head, and the verse I found most comforting and that brought me fully back into confidence in my salvation was the description of what one who has fallen away is like:

Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

This most frightening of verses holds the key to the most delightful security. So long as you are able to repent, you cannot belong to this group of people, whatever group it is you think they are. As long as you can and do repent, you are not without hope.

I only wish Squelchmaster could read that. I was sorely, sorely afraid when I began to get that condemned feeling. I never heard voices, but I know the feeling. I think it does come to us when we have walked too far away from God.

God will judge rightly, in any event.

To Shane:

I too, was heartbroken by TSM and his interpretation that Jesus was shunning him. God wants us back, no matter how far we stray, no matter what terrible things we have done, or even THINK we have done. God's love is so complete, so pure, that He only wants us to come home.

It is WE who turn our backs to God. And try as He would like, God cannot FORCE us to turn back to Him. It has to be OUR choice.

The father in the story of the prodigal son may not have been so understanding if the kid had been a yo-yo....go, come home, leave, return, run off, slink back....

But God will always have the Welcome Mat out for us.


Peace be with you,
~VOW

"This most frightening of verses holds the key to the most delightful security. "

I think that verse is speaking of nonchristians God has reveiled himself to and then the don't choose him. I adhere to that point..preservation of the saints.

Lizzy4christ-

Thanks for the verses- You are so right on! If a person is a Christian, he can't loose his salvation.

SquelchMaster-
I know you are going through a ton off bad stuff right now. I am going to pray right now before I hit the Send button that God will show you how much he loves you and help keep you away from Satan's influence, and help guide you to the right path.

God bless you,
Karen

Hi Liz,

I would take an opposite view from you on the issue. I respectfully disagree and would like to state what I see in the verses that you have quoted in defense of your position. Not to start a spat, but just to give you a perspective on how someone else may see the same verses.

Blessings

>>>>"Romans 8:35-39
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written: "For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered." No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

The context of the verse speaks of the love of Christ for those that are going through intense persecution. Nothing external to the believer can bring separation, even though they may feel that God has forsaken them. There is a universal love of God for mankind, and a love for only those that are “in” Christ. This passage concerns that later. The passage is dealing with the love of Christ and assurance. However, the context is not dealing with an assurance that says that one cannot ever forsake salvation through Christ. “Keep yourselves in the love of God” Jude 21.

>>>>"John 10:27-30
My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are one."

The “sheep” are secure and “shall never perish.” Nothing external to the sheep shall be able to snatch (take by force) them out of the hand of God. The passage also defines the “sheep.” Only those that are (present tense) hearing, and (present tense) following Jesus are called sheep in this context. Ones that cease to hear (listen) and follow are not His sheep. “And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know his voice.” Jn. 10:5

>>>"I hear that we can "jump off His hand" I don't believe that. If the angels who are higher then humans cannot separate us from His love, how can we, puny mortals, separate ourselves?"

Angels and principalities are external influences, which the entire context of both verses speak of. If one is free to accept salvation, there is nothing within scripture that says that freedom ceases at that point. “If the Son shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”

>>>> "Hebrews 9:15
For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance --now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

The passage says that the inheritance is eternal. It is eternal whether we accept it or reject it. The passage does not say that anyone has an eternal and irrevocable possession of it. The inheritance is eternal, not our possession of it.

>>>> "Ephesians 1:13-14
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession--to the praise of his glory. "

The Holy Spirit is our seal. He is an “earnest,” a down payment as a guarantee of our inheritance until we actually have our redemption in its fullness. No doubt a glorious promise. Nothing is said in this verse of the possibility the loss of salvation, and equally, the impossibility of losing salvation, that is not the context of the discussion.

>>>> "1 Peter 1:3-5
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade --kept in heaven for you, who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time."

The “inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade” which is stated for our hope. It is “kept in heaven for you,” who are “kept by the power of God through faith.” Faith is the condition, for, “without faith it is impossible to please Him. “ Heb. 11:6.

If a person is a Christian, he can't loose his salvation.

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I wouldn't be so sure about that.

I don't think we're being constructive here over the specifics of Once Saved Always Saved, guys & gals. The major dispute over OSAS is whether a person can knowingly, in full consciousness, with spite and purpose, throw away his own salvation by overtly rejecting Christ. That doesn't appear to be the case here, it seems to me this person is suffering with wondering whether God will have them back, whether they've gone too far to come back. This person is not here in defiance of Christ or as an atheist.

I know the title of the thread is about losing your salvation, but let's try to be clear about what we're saying to the author of the thread. What they are doing does not qualify them to eternally lose their salvation, and we should be emphatically supportive to them and clear in this regard.

And I really think that we shouldn't let one person's dream have any effect on our spiritual lives, and certainly not allow it to give us doubts about God.

Guilt doesn't equate to lost salvation. Our guilt is actual proof of salvation. Those that do not have ears are never guilty.

We grow in Christ (from sinners saved by grace too saints that occasionally sins) If we became perfect at the time of salvation then there would not be "baby Christians", we would be born fully grown.

If you believe that once saved you became a "son/daughter" of God, it's settled. You can't break a kinship by your actions. Kinship is not in my power to change.

There is only one question, are you saved?

Blessings

Originally posted by Shane Roach
Ok, interesting that Squelchmaster doesn't want to recieve either emails or pm's

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Hi sorry you can private message me now- I am to be a bit honest a bit cautious when signing up to forums with stuff like that.

I went to a Baptist Church and the sermon went something like this:

"Jesus died for our sins and gave us the gift of eternal life. All you have to do is say a simple prayer and accept Jesus into your heart and you'll be saved."

so you ask me "Does this mean all I have to do is accept Jesus into my heart and then I'm saved no matter what."

I tell you "Yes, today if you repent of your sins and ask Jesus to come into your heart you will have eternal life"

You say "So I can do whatever I want and be given eternal life?"

I tell you "Yes, you can live your life as you wish and be given eternal life"

you say "Cool so I can run around stealing, commiting adultry, cursing...ect? and still know that I have eternal life?"

Then I tell you "If that is what you want you better check and figure out what you asked into your heart cause it sure wasn't Jesus!"

I thought it was a really cute sermon that explained a lot.

Love and God Bless

What makes me so sick with worry and fear is that I was warned not to fall and commit this in a dream, and not once either- at the the time I didn't believe in eternal security- I didn't know about OSAS and was convinced that even if I ever just said a word of rejection against Christ I would be eternally condemned to hell, with no way back.
This eventually caused me to have a partial nervous breakdown- I almost had to go to a mental hospital and in any case have needed drugs and psychiatric help as an outpatient. The problem is that when I expressed my fears to people including my pastor at Church they told me about OSAS and their words were that Jesus would never let me go, even if I let go of him etc.
Eventually though I got so broken spiritually and having absolutely no assurance from God, only an overwhelming sense of judgement and condemnation, I gradually lost virtually all hope and in the absence of any word from God (for well over a year now) I finally got to the point where I lost all hope and faith that that I was ever saved and became convinced that I was eternally lost- This overwhelming temptation never ceased however despite me constantly pleading with God to take it away from me- and in total despair a few weeks ago, I finally fell after trying to resist it for months.
Now all I have is an overwhelming hardness of heart and I find it almost impossible to seek forgiveness and in any case only have an overwhelming sense that because I fell, not once but three times to date (because after the first time I became so convinced that I was doomed to eternal destruction that I went beyond caring) that I am now well and truly beyond redemption- God only seems to say that I have well and truly fallen and committed the eternal sin and that I was on probation (last chance) before.
The absolute tragedy of it is that if I had known this would cause me to become another Judas Iscariot, I would never have committed it and would have killed myself rather than fall and do this.
My feelings are that God is willing to let 9/10s maybe more? of all that will ever live eternally perish and that he was willing to let me go to eternal destruction too because to be honest I am just the lowest form of scum there is- I wouldn't have ended up doing this if I wasn't- I can't see any way back now.

Well I was told and made to believe that all you had to do was ask Jesus to forgive your sins- I think I have been decieved by Satan to my eternal loss- Satan wouldn't let me go and I was prevented from finding/even wanting to find out out the truth until it was too late.

Whatever the situation, always check your dreams, or what you "hear", against the Word of God.

John

what ever you had done, no matter how lost you are, if you truly seek Him, you can find Him.

If you know you diserve punishment dont dewll on the bad things that happen but welcome them as you know you diserve to be punished for your deeds. And know that the Father is watching and will stop the punishment after he deems it you have had enuff.

eye for an eye tooth for a tooth.

It's not too late, TSM. That is deception.

Choose God and force out everything else. Surround yourself with Christian friends. Immerse yourself in His presence. The past is the past - leave it there. Live today in Christ. His robes of righteousness can cover the worst stains!

You are still alive and the day of Judgement is not yet here. The day and time is unknown so give your life to Jesus and live according to his teachings. Tell Satan to be gone and have faith in God to prevail. Don't put off what you can do now. God will forgive you but you must forgive yourself and move forward. God loves you. Take Care and Don't be afraid to ask for help. Goodness is still around...Satan has not won....God is incharge and always will be. Think possitive and let go of the negative. Be thankful that we have a loving God. God will help you but you must be welling to accept Him. Love and God Bless you.

BTW What does your screen name stand for?

I believe that you, Squelch Master, are being decieved by Satan because God has called you to do a great work for Him(God) on this earth and the devil is trying to confuse you so that you can not do it. This level of temptation is rare. If Satan had you, he wouldn't be bothering you, so to me that means you are a child of God. And Satan is trying to make you doubt and trying to drown out the word of God and the Holy Spirit and by doing so make you useless for God's will and plans for your life.

I will be praying for you daily.

Praise God!

I have known a person who, after having sinned, walked away from Christ, instead of repenting, because she was told that you can sin so bad that God will not take you back. In other words, that you can lose your salvation. Forget the story of the prodigal son, it doesn't apply to real people, I guess.

So when you spout off that you can lose your salvation, there are people who think that means you can't repent and be accepted back.

Is that what you really mean to say?

BTW What does your screen name stand for? [/B][/QUOTE]

Oh it just means something silly such as someone who loves jumping and rolling in mud and maybe eating it too!- just the result of a crazy imagination!- I do have a much more street cred? name which I usually post under but didn't want this issue to be associated with my usual id on here- not that I pretend to be a holy joe with the other id or anything!