Antichrist one person?

Originally posted by RKF
You preterest are utterly hopeless

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Still waiting for a Holy Ghost led apology for some of you calling us preterist brothers liars concerning Hal Lindsey. I'm sure you all believed you were ranting "under the anointing," but you were clearly in the flesh at that fine moment.

In Christ's love,
GW

Hi RKF,

I thought i would throw this link out for you and perhaps anyone else interested.

http://www.apocalipsis.org/preterism.htm


I dont have the knowledge to argue this stuff, but it's a great read outlining the differences between full and partial preterism.


Regards

I think i should point out as well,

You preterest are utterly hopeless

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While i may not agree with a full preterist view, i think the message that it carries is one of the most bright and hopeful ones i see. It's not the doom and gloom of waiting for the end of the world to come, it's God is alive and working in our lives today. He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. Rejoice !!!

no thanks I am happy with my views and believes.
BTW I am not the one who called you Preterest lairs but I will say this
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

no thanks I am happy with my views and believes.

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Blessings to you RKF..we're all brothers and sisters in Christ and that's what's most important.

Phoenix, although I am not nearly informed enough to enter this debate (nor do I have the stomach for it), it makes me feel happy to read the kindess and love in your posts. Thank you. It's really all about being like Christ, at the end of the day, right? Thanks for letting me see him in you.

although I am not nearly informed enough to enter this debate

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Neither am i ( seriously !! ) But i'm learning.
Thank you Christi, that was very nice.

Originally posted by RKF
but I will say this
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

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Brother,

I don't know if you include your personal view of eschatology into the "gospel," but if you do then it might just be to you that Paul's words apply:

If any preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed (Gal 1:9)

Just something to think about.

In Christ's love and victory,
GW

OK... I get from scanning this thread that many think the antichrist has already came and gone. If it works for you then go with it.

But I do not remember the end of time happening.
Maybe I slept through it.

GW: Do you know how irritating it is when someone decides what they believe the Bible to mean and then drowns out everyone else? But here is your chance to make me eat crow.... :o

Revelations 13:11 Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb , but he spoke like a dragon .

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No it does not say Anti-Christ. But lamb is symbolic for Christ, and dragon is symbolic for Satan. This is the person we are referring to when we talk about the end time anti-Christ. None of your post are relative to the end-time AntiChrist.

But here you go ....Since he has already appeared to you. Then you are the one we are looking for. I believe you alone have the wisdom.

Revelations 13:18 This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666.

What's his name?

LOVE

he thinks that it was Nero.

Originally posted by Catchup

I do not remember the end of time happening.
Maybe I slept through it.

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There is no scripture to support any belief that time will end. No such scripture exists that states "the end of time".
Conversley, scripture does teach us that the Kingdom, and the generations of man, and the earth itself are all to continue "forever" (Ps. 104:5; 145:13; Eccl. 1:4; Dan. 4:3,34; 7:14,18,27; Lk. 1:33; Eph. 3:21).

Originally posted by Catchup


Revelations 13:18 This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666.

LOVE

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John knew it called for wisdom, and he also knew that particular wisdom was available to those who first received his words.

This is not about some future to us person that no 1st century christian would have had the "wisdom" to calculate.

Nero was the man beast of Revelation.

YBIC,
P70

Originally posted by Willis Deal
Manifestation, nice try bro, but you ended up pretty much confirming what I said, early church fathers recognized the destruction of Jerusalem as fulfillment of prophecy, but they were still looking forward to the return of Christ. I imagine if they'd put forth the idea that Christ had returned, was ruling and reigning, that the graves of the dead were empty etc. they would have been branded as heretics.

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Hi Willis. What would you say if I showed you from scripture that the saints in the "first century" never had a concept of literal bodys coming from the grave. Would you believe it or would you still reject the concept of a spiritual resurrection?

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ

Nero was the man beast of Revelation.

This = Preterest

Rev 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

Rev 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

Originally posted by RKF
no thanks I am happy with my views and believes.
BTW I am not the one who called you Preterest lairs but I will say this
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

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RKF I will say this much. You really should find out what the true meaning of a verse is before you QUOTE it out of context. What was the "other gospel" that was being preach to them? That they could be saved by keeping the Law.(Galatians 4:21)

In AD 59, Paul entered Jerusalem with funds for those in need. Jesus' physical brother, James, was the central pastoral figure. He warned Paul. "You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jew of those who have believed; they are all zealous for the law" (Acts 21:20).

More crucial, however, was that they were very suspicious of Paul. "They have been told about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses telling them not to circumcise their children or observe the customs" (Acts 21:21) To alleviate these fears, James encouraged Paul to go to the Temple, take upon himself a Hebrew vow, be purified according to the torah and show the zealot Hebrew Christians that he was okay (Acts 21:22-24).

"Thus all will know that there is nothing in what they have been told about you, but that you yourself live in observance of the law" (21:24) Isn't that amazing? Here in the bosom of the mother Church were ten-thousands of thousands of messianic Jews who believed in Jesus who were still very much caught up in the Torah; "zealous for the law" Early Christianity indeed had a very difficult time getting away from the Judaistc influences!

It did not occur overnight. This same Judaistc influences tryed to turn the Galatians away from Christ to the law (Galatians 1:6) Paul warns them do notturned away from Christ by a different gospel which is not another vs 7

Paul then go on to tell them. no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for "the just shall live by faith." 3:11

A clear understanding of the Bible begins with the realization of the historical socioc-political and religious situation that characterized Israel in the first century. To fully appreciate the NT letters, and the historical account of the early Christian movement it is neceessary to understand there were Jews among them who tryed to entangled then again with a yoke of bondage (the law ) 5:1 They were the ones who bewitched them

The whole book of Galatians is about this very subject. They were warned not to be turned away from Christ to a different gospel. And stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made them free,* 5:1

Originally posted by RKF
Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ

Nero was the man beast of Revelation.

This = Preterest

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This is indeed the Preterist teaching. Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Every mislead futurist believes God takes 2.000 plus years to compleat his work. While the inspired Paul says. For He will finish the work and cut it short in fighteousness, because the LORD will make a short work upon the earth. (Rom. 9:28) Imagine that! God has the funny idea that His work through Jesus Christ will be a short work! I'm afraid He hasn't spoken with our futurist friends on these matters. It makes one wonder were the futurist are getting their information. Obviously it isn't coming from the Bible.

I will not debate the promise of Jesus second coming with you. If you prefer to pull the covers over your head, that is OK. You are Christian and that is the important thing. I am sure Christ will awaken you when he returns. Because even though you are not wrong….You are only half right!

Jesus' message was "the kingdom of God," the rule of God in human life and history. The kingdom was both future (Matt 25:31ff.) and present (Luke 11:20). This last reference connects the kingdom with the activity of Jesus in casting out demons. To the degree that Jesus invades the kingdom of Satan in this fashion, the kingdom of God has already come. Doing the will of God was the mainspring of Jesus' ministry (Matt 6:10; 12:50; Mark 14:36; John 4:34). Entrance into the present aspect of the kingdom comes through faith in the Son of God (John 3:3, 5, 15, 16). Jesus came in the Incarnation to reveal God (John 1:14, 18), to redeem people from their sins (Mark 10:45), and to relate sympathetically with their needs (Heb 2:17-18).

But also one purpose of the Incarnation is reserved for his second coming. His kingly rule will then be introduced following his work as judge (Matt 25:31-34). This future coming is one of the major truths set forth in the epistles (Phil 3:20-21; 2 Thess 1:7-10) and is the leading theme of Revelation. Christ will enter with his people the blessedness of the eternal state, which will be unmarred by the inroads of sin or death.

LOVE

Originally posted by parousia70


While I agree that theology is not a popularity contest, I am confused by how, in the same breath you say If preterism is right, more people would be preterist???!!! How does that make any sense?
P70

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Originally posted by GW


Wait a minute...which viewpoint do you hold to and WHEN did your eschatological view come to dominate? From what I read you don't seem like you hold to the Historicist view, which the reformers developed in the 14-1600s. Nor do you seem to be of the Amillennial view which goes back to the earliest times but was spelled out most clearly by Augustine. If you are of the basic Left Behind teaching then MANY of your beliefs only go back as far as the 1800s!

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I'd suggest you both go back and read my post again. Seems you guys are so used to overlooking important words and reading things into passages that it comes automatic to you. p70 stated that the holy spirit was leading people to embrace preterism. I pointed out that if the holy spirit were leading people to preterism then surely over the last two thousand years preterism would have had a much wider following than it does. The emphasis is on what the Holy Spirit is doing, not whether preterism is true. I stated that theology is not a popularity contest.

GW, your question about what theology I follow and when my views became the dominate view... Well, I never implied that my views were the most popular. As far as I know I may be the only person in the world who holds my particular viewpoint on prophecy. I believe that many people have part of the truth, but I disagree with other things which they believe. I believe that prophecy is too complicated for any one person to have a full understanding of exactly what it all means. After much prayer and study I came to the understanding that God is not limited to fulfilling prophecy just one time in only one way. It can be spiritual and literal, it can have a fullfillment over a long period of time and still have a specific fulfillment at a future time. As such, I can see the truth in the historic view, truth in the amillennial view, truth in the preterist view, truth in the premillennial view. What I don't see is the truth in one particular view negating the truth in another view.

Now about the arguement that a view point being wrong because it was developed on a particular date. This seems nonsensical to me. After all, weren't some things sealed (hidden) until a future time? Aren't we told that knowledge will increase? It doesn't matter when a particular teaching developed, it matters whether it can be supported from the word of God.

manifestation,

What the early christians thought concerning resurrection is relevant only if it is in agreement with the word of God. Paul taught the resurrection and tied it so closely to the resurrection of Christ that to deny the physical reurrection of the body is to deny the physical resurrection of Christ.

AMEN!

LOVE