Life in the tribulation?

cbk · Oct 23, 2003

In regards to the belief that Revelation is in the future.

Many believe it is not already happened, because, try as you might, Nero did not have authority over the WORLD during his reign.

I am sure that he would have met his match in China, India, Japan, Africa, etc..... Why, I believe the German tribes were enough of a match.

Therefore, if by WORLD, Revelation means the WORLD and not just the Empire ruling over Israel and much of the surrounding area, then it has yet to be fulfilled.

cbk · Oct 23, 2003

onetruechurch said:
The word rapture is never in the Bible. The things that Jesus talked about in Matthew was the fall of Jeruselem, 70 a.d. It was prohesised in the OT. We are now living in the last 2 chapters of revelation, waiting on the lords return. read 2 peter 3:3-10. The Lord will come and the Earth shall be burned up.

This is merely your opinion, not a fact.

For yours to be a fact, Jesus either 1)DOES NOT appear on the clouds as he promised us or 2)no one saw him or 3)it was witnessed and never written about.

For your belief to be a fact, almost everything in Revelation is symbolic. Like a Nostrodamus book.

Your belief MAY be true, but it is only a fact in your mind.

jesus720 · Oct 23, 2003

I was reading and (now I'm a baby christian) I've heard different things. Some say first will come the rapture tahn tribulation an others say first tribulation than rapture. Which is it? What do yu think?

cbk · Oct 23, 2003

In addition, the period of 128-136AD would hold more significance to prophecy, IMO, than 70ad.

Codger · Oct 23, 2003

Dear CF members,

First post - Just curious if there are any Amillenialists here. If not - I don't imagine I will do much posting to this particular forum. Really trying to avoid the anger, rage, and driveness of those holding the DT point of view.

Codger

Justme · Oct 23, 2003

Hi Forum,

This thread is one of the sad displays of what christianity and maybe religions in general has decayed to. I read the first few pages and read where people are worried about what to tell their children about the tribulation and on and on.

Religion, Christianity or any other, should provide a comfort, a feeling of security and a system to help people thru difficult times in their lives. On this thread we see people scared to death of the future brought on by false teachings of religious groups.

In my opinion the ones who fill honest God fearing people with junk that brings on fear instead of peace and understanding are the scum of the earth and those people rate no higher with me than child molesters.

My suggestion to anyone who fears the future that God has in store for mankind, and yet believes in God is to spend a Sunday or two in a totally middle of the road mainstream church. One where the speaker is not hollering at the top of his/her lungs, one where they are not telling you to belong to their group or die and a church that doesn't end each discussion with "send us money.""

If you come out of a religious meeting scared of what God is about to do to mankind, you have been in the in the lair of a lion. (not the animal, just a man who's lyin')

Justme

nephilimiyr · Oct 24, 2003

Justme said:
Hi Forum,

This thread is one of the sad displays of what christianity and maybe religions in general has decayed to. I read the first few pages and read where people are worried about what to tell their children about the tribulation and on and on.

Religion, Christianity or any other, should provide a comfort, a feeling of security and a system to help people thru difficult times in their lives. On this thread we see people scared to death of the future brought on by false teachings of religious groups.

In my opinion the ones who fill honest God fearing people with junk that brings on fear instead of peace and understanding are the scum of the earth and those people rate no higher with me than child molesters.

My suggestion to anyone who fears the future that God has in store for mankind, and yet believes in God is to spend a Sunday or two in a totally middle of the road mainstream church. One where the speaker is not hollering at the top of his/her lungs, one where they are not telling you to belong to their group or die and a church that doesn't end each discussion with "send us money.""

If you come out of a religious meeting scared of what God is about to do to mankind, you have been in the in the lair of a lion. (not the animal, just a man who's lyin')

Justme

We're just being honest with our true feelings about this Justme. I'm not a know it all as some people love to be around this forum. I have an open mind about alot of things but I also have some pretty strong beliefs also. I didn't receive these beliefs by listening to preachers as you have suggested, as if you'd know anyway.

I'm a little confused though about your motivations? You say you've read this thread but I've been apart of this thread and I don't recall anyone saying or implying that they were scared to death at what God has in store for our future, at least this isn't my feelings on this. I posted before, months ago, that I'm worried about my family and friends, I don't want to see them perish. So instead of giving condemnation and insults why don't you offer some love and support with a little understanding. For someone who believes he knows what Christianity is all about this shouldn't be too hard for you to do.

nephilimiyr · Oct 24, 2003

Codger said:
Dear CF members,

First post - Just curious if there are any Amillenialists here. If not - I don't imagine I will do much posting to this particular forum. Really trying to avoid the anger, rage, and driveness of those holding the DT point of view.

Codger

Hi Codger! :wave:

Welcome to CF!

Tell me a little bit about Amillenialists and what the belief is and then I'll tell you if I agree. I promise I won't yell and scream at you if it turns out I think your belief is going to drag you down to hell but if it is something I don't believe I will let you know about it.

jayswife29 · Oct 24, 2003

Amillennialism is the belief that prophecy isnt taken literally and that there will be no literal millenium. They believe that the book of Revelation is a description of the persecuted church.
Anyways, no I dont believe this view to be accurate. And in response to the other post...so what if we are wondering what to tell our children or friends if we live through the trib. This thread was started months ago to discuss different POSSIBILITIES, different scenarios, different views on what life would be like during the tribulation. These are our opinions, we arent stating anything that we believe to be written in stone. This was an interesting thread while it lasted, I am glad jhessel dug it back out.

Codger · Oct 24, 2003

Dear nephilimiy and Jayswife,

Im surprised that this term is not known on this site. Maybe I should review the different viewpoints, so we are all on the same page.

Historic Premillenialism Probably the earliest defined viewpoint, which is traceable to Papius who is said to possibly have known John the writer of the apocalypse. Back then it was known as Chiliasm, which relates to the number 1,000. The Church historian Eusebius has only scathing words for Papius as to his misunderstanding of the writings of the Apostles. It is Papius whose errant writings are believed responsible for the Premillenial viewpoint among a lot of the early Church Fathers.

Postmillennialism Was a viewpoint, which was in flower in the late 1800ds. It is the most positive of the different views. It said that the Gospel would be preached in the entire world and eventually most of mankind would be won to Christ. Christ would then return and set up a 1,000-year reign on earth. This view fell out of Vogue when current history did not align with it with the coming of WWI. And by the end of WWII people had given up on it as a viable viewpoint. It just wasnt happening in real life and it pretty much went to seed after WWII.

Dispensational Premillenialism Was a viewpoint that developed in the late 1800ds and is attributed to one J.N. Darby of the Plymouth Brethren. It combined a doctrine called Dispensationalism with Historic Premillenialism. This doctrine was primarily brought into vogue by the creation of present day Israel in 1948. This factor has fueled the doctrines of Darby, which was promoted by his disciple Schofield and later by the alumni of Dallas Theological seminary Hal Lindsey and others.

The success of present day Israel is essential to the implementation of the eschatology of Disp theology. Disp theology divides the program of God into two camps one for the Church and a completely different one for present day Israel. And so the promises and prophecies are also divided into two piles also. Had it not been for the reemergence of present day Israel I doubt if DT would be popular as it is today.

Amillennialism Was a viewpoint attributed to St. Augustine, which was unchallenged from his day until the 1800ds. "A" millenialism basically means no Millennium - but this is a misnomer. The Amillenialists "millennium" is basically the unknown amount of time between the first and Second Advent because the term 1,000 is a symbol and not a literal number. Amillennialism is usually attached to Covenant theology and Partial Preterism. Amills see Revelation as being primarily addressed to the first Century Church in Asia Minor and to the Church under persecution under Roman domination.

Do you really believe that it is the correctness of our theology that is the basis of our relationship with God? Who has totally correct doctrines and how would you know if you did?

Codger

nephilimiyr · Oct 24, 2003

Codger this sounds like preterism or close to it. In any event this wouldn't belong in this thread. You can try and start a thread on this and see what others here at CF think about this but I'm sorry I don't hold to any of those beliefs but thanks for explaining it. If your not well recieved here you can try and go into the open forums and post it there as well.
God Bless!

Pericles · Oct 24, 2003

nephilimiyr said:
Codger this sounds like preterism or close to it...!

Not even close....they are two different theological systems.

nephilimiyr · Oct 24, 2003

Pericles said:
Not even close....they are two different theological systems.

LOL, ok maybe your right about that. I really haven't studied either one of these beliefs at all but neither of them come close to what I believe.

Codger, I'm more then sure others here at CF believe the same as you. I really do strongly suggest that you create a seperate thread on this.

Knee V · Oct 24, 2003

Codger,

You misrepresented postmilenialism. You stated that they believe that after the majority of people on earth are converted, Christ will return to set up His 1,000-year kingdom. That is a mixture of post- and premil. The postmil believes that the gospel will have an increasingly greater affect on society until the majority of people are converted, and that state will remain for some time. Then Christ returns. No 1,000 year period after that. Postmilenialism is very close to a- in that the reign occurs during the time from the first advent to the second, and the 1,000 years is symbolic. The main difference is the affect the gospel will have during Christ's reign.

Knee V · Oct 24, 2003

But to stay on the topic of the thread, I'm sure life in the trib was a pretty terrible experience. I'm glad I'm not a first-century Jew.

jayswife29 · Oct 24, 2003

Oh good grief, I suppose you too believe that the tribulation already took place? Neph....I just cant respond to these posts, maybe you can take over. I dont have the patience to read through argument after argument of 'how the tribulation already happened to the first century jews' when I dont believe that. What I hold to be the truth, (to me and by the sounds of it to Nephilimiyr )I am a premillennialist.

jhessel · Oct 24, 2003

Pericles said:
I haven't really followed this thread, but I am wondering, where does the Bible say that believers will be hunted down like the jews were hunted down by the Nazi SS?

What does the Bible say will happen to those that refuse the mark of the beast? (read it)

I am surprised at how passive most people are. They believe that everything will continue to be the same way it is now. That we will continue to go to work, travel, and chat on the net like we are doing now.
It is going to be hell on earth.

BonoMan · Oct 24, 2003

jhessel said:
I am surprised at how passive most people are. They believe that everything will continue to be the same way it is now. That we will continue to go to work, travel, and chat on the net like we are doing now.
It is going to be hell on earth.

I just want anyones opinion weather any of these things will start to happen in our lifetime. Just curious.Do you think we are close to it?

jhessel · Oct 24, 2003

BonoMan said:
I just want anyone’s opinion weather any of these things will start to happen in our lifetime. Just curious.Do you think we are close to it?

I do not expect to be alive in 5-7 years. I am only speaking to what I have read. I have read everything from the Bible prophecies/hopi indian prophecy/nostradamus/conspiracy theories etc. They all point to the same thing (huge global cataclysms/whole cities destroyed/land going underwater) etc etc.

BonoMan · Oct 24, 2003

I think you are right that we are very close to it Jhessel , I still think we have 20 years or less of moral decay then things will start to happen but this world is so full of demon activity that if you could see it with your naked eye it would scare you to death!!!

Life in the tribulation?

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