Brutal occupation tactics
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by shooting someone in handcuffs in the head?MichaelFJF said:
by destroying someone's livelihood deliberately?
what about the Iraqi POW who was tortured to death?
look at how outraged you were over the issue of reports of Iraqis killing American prisoners:
http://www.christianforums.com/t40654
http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=750655#post750655
http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=748549#post748549
now that it's American troops shooting an Iraqi civilian in handcuffs, it's now a question of survival? on the same issue, you take the exact opposite stands depending on which side carries it out. why is that? do you know what hypocritical means?
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UUm killing handcuffed prisoners is premediated murder and nothing else. That´s death penalty not some prison term.
Mediated destruction of livelihood of the native citizens is sure a good way to gain the hearts of said natives...
Mediated destruction of livelihood of the native citizens is sure a good way to gain the hearts of said natives...
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UCMJ-Uniform Code of Military Justice
These are individual acts,not every soldier is committing them.Most of our military operates by the book(UCMJ).Walk a mile in the shoes of the soldiers in Iraq and watch how quickly your tone changes.It's easy for people to talk about military issues when they have not been there,and since you have not been there how do you truly know what's going on.Don't put your trust in the words of men,for the tongue is treacherous and full of deceit.The news media spins everything to suit their agenda.
These are individual acts,not every soldier is committing them.Most of our military operates by the book(UCMJ).Walk a mile in the shoes of the soldiers in Iraq and watch how quickly your tone changes.It's easy for people to talk about military issues when they have not been there,and since you have not been there how do you truly know what's going on.Don't put your trust in the words of men,for the tongue is treacherous and full of deceit.The news media spins everything to suit their agenda.
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How accurate are these reports from March about American POWs being executed? I've been trying to find reference to any proof that these reports were ever confirmed. Does anyone have any information to back up these original claims of American soldiers being executed?datan said:
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I think there were some video clips of the bullet holes in their heads floating around.No gods said:
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did you read the article on the US military being criticised for their non-investigations of civilians casualties? When higher-ups make it an official policy to not investigate civilian deaths, that sends a message to US troops that civilians casualties will be tolerated as long as there is no media present. What about the guy who died simply because the US troops shot around in a circle after being attacked, without aiming at any targets in a civilian neighbourhood. It's a known US military tactic to respond to attacks by shooting indiscriminately around themselves without concern for civilians. How can you condone this.Driver-X said:
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unfortunately nothing will come of this. Remember the prisoners who died in Cuba after alleged torture? There wasn't even an investigation much less a trial. Or the US pilot who bombed Canadian troops in Afghanistan who was let off without so much as a court martial? Or the Reuters cameraman who was shot? Or the Iraqi intepreter to some foreign diplomat who was shot in traffic? Or countless Iraqis killed because stupid US checkpoints were poorly marked? Or the US helicopter crew who removed an Iraqi flag from a tower and incited a riot?Lacmeh said:
I can't wait to see the kangaroo courts set up to execute the "enemy combatants". US Military Justice my big stinkin' foot. This administration doesn't want anyone asking questions about its war.
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[font=TIMES NEW ROMAN, TIMES]here's another one ...
Meanwhile, in Khaldiyah, just west of Fallujah, hundreds of Iraqis protested Wednesday to demand the release of two women arrested in raids this week. Protesters said U.S. troops raided the home of a former Iraqi army officer but when they failed to find him, they detained his wife and mother. There was no comment from U.S. officials.[/font]
Meanwhile, in Khaldiyah, just west of Fallujah, hundreds of Iraqis protested Wednesday to demand the release of two women arrested in raids this week. Protesters said U.S. troops raided the home of a former Iraqi army officer but when they failed to find him, they detained his wife and mother. There was no comment from U.S. officials.[/font]
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I believe there was video footage of what looked like it could be bullet wounds that would be expected from but not limited to execution style shootings. However, I can find no confirmation that this video footage was of actual executed soldiers. Can anyone provide any updated information on this issue?datan said:
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Plan 9
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In my case, posts like this, which attack other members for no good reason, are getting old.datan said:
So you harm people with a war of words; how is that any less wrong than the "crimes" you so deplore?
There is a downside to the fact that the pen is mightier than the sword. Words have power; we have as great a responsiblity to try to limit the hurt we cause innocent people with them as does any army with its weapons.
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the_malevolent_milk_man
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So datan should just say "Oh, my bad. Go ahead and kill, torture, or deny rights to all the civillians you want. Don't bother punishing the soldiers, I trust them all."
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Plan 9
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You know perfectly well that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that brutality in our posts is wrong, too, and accomplishes nothing. No one changes their mind when verbally abusive tactics are used.the_malevolent_milk_man said:
I read your posts with enjoyment all the time and I've posted with you, too. Why are you attacking me now and why is Datan attacking Adam?
If you want to make war; not war, instead of making love; not war and you want this to be just another battlezone, knock yourselves out. Just remember this: I will probably avoid reading your posts and posting with you again on any thread, for fear of encountering a sudden and intellectually dishonest attack, which is not like you, and which hurts for that very reason.
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he started the attacks with "wow this is getting old guys. come on", which implies that our concerns are frivolous. I don't see you criticising him.Plan 9 said:
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datan said:
hey unless you were an active soldier fighting in a war i dont want to hear your comments on how cruel we are. you must not understand what war is. us soldiers dont go in their and hold every ones hand singing jesus loves me. we go in their to defeat the enemy. if we suspect that the enemy is hiding in a feild we are gonna tear it up. if you live on that farm you might wanna leave. war isnt fun or peacful it is hell. no one likes war so dont go throwing around comments that bush is war hungry and we are brutal bullies terrorizing iraqi citezens. you must remeber how they were treated by saddam. would wanna hang in the street with you tongue sticking through your neck, or have the us bulldoze your crops searching for the enemy? by the way, that loud music stuff is a scare tactic, it is supposed to freak out the enemy. this reply was not aimed directly at you datan i was just quoting the articles you posted.
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burrow_owl
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"if we suspect that the enemy is hiding in a feild we are gonna tear it up."
what if the field is torn up as a punitive measure, or for political reasons (the farmer not supporting the occupation)? am i allowed to criticize that even though i've never been an active soldier? it would seem that i certainly can, and, once more, i think people should criticize the army in that case.
"you must remeber how they were treated by saddam."
ergo it's all the more important that we comport ourselves properly. iraqis aren't going to think, "well, the americans destroyed my livelihood, but at least they didn't torture me." They're just gonna think we're horrible, too.
what if the field is torn up as a punitive measure, or for political reasons (the farmer not supporting the occupation)? am i allowed to criticize that even though i've never been an active soldier? it would seem that i certainly can, and, once more, i think people should criticize the army in that case.
"you must remeber how they were treated by saddam."
ergo it's all the more important that we comport ourselves properly. iraqis aren't going to think, "well, the americans destroyed my livelihood, but at least they didn't torture me." They're just gonna think we're horrible, too.
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Plan 9
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datan said:
That's because I post with Adam a lot, we are often on opposite 'sides' of an issue, and I have a pretty good idea what he meant and I don't think he was implying that at all. He isn't the kind of person who belittles other peoples' concerns.
You could have asked him what he meant, instead of jumping to that conclusion and you might have done that in a kinder, gentler thread, datan.
Now, if you prefer a verbal bloodbath to the kind of discussion in which you might affect the viewpoints of others, go for it, but you are losing your chance to change my mind, if that's what you want.
Don't think I'm only speaking of you, or the posters here who hold your views.
Adam's right: this is getting old, plus it's ugly and painful to read. Taking part in it is a mistake; you did not bother to reply to my central argument, you essentially said, "But MOM he started it FIRST!
Datan, I turned 51 today; the Vietnam War is not history to me. If you want to make a difference, you have to have a peaceful heart yourself. If you do, then others will feel your passion for the innocent victims of this war.
Our soldiers are also victims; they're dying and 19 year old Army Pfc. Jessica Lynch was captured and horribly tortured. An Iraqi citizen passed a note to a Marine giving her location, so that she was rescued. You should not portray soldiers like Pfc. Lynch as monsters.
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ACougar
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I have faith that the vast majority of our armed forces would not take part in brutal "Israeli" style tactics of this nature. If some of them are... then I hope and pray that they are held accoutable for thier crimes and jailed/executed not only for crimes against humanity but for the shame they have brought upon our great country.
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