God is not a spirit!

To what are you referring to when you say that God has a body of flesh and bone - to Jesus' resurrection body? Or are you saying that God would have such a body even if he had not become man in Jesus Christ?

You say that "a" is the definite article, but this is not the case. In English, "a" is indefinite because it can refer to any one of a kind. The definite article is "the," because it refers to a specific person, place or thing.

In Greek, there is only a definite article (pronounced "ho" in ancient Greek), and no indefinite one. So translators must decide whether or not they think an indefinite article is implied by the context - whether or not it would make better sense to insert an indefiinite article in the English translation.

John 4:24 is better translated "God is Spirit," because God is not a spirit like an angel. God is not a localized presence, but is present everywhere at the same time. God is not one of the many entities that make up the universe, or even one of the invisible intelligences that exist apart from the material world. God is the Source of all that is not God. So the mode of God's existence as "Spirit" is vastly superior to that of a created "spirit."

Hi twhite982.

Well as you rightly mention, the bible does clearly state at John 4:24 that God is a spirit Person, which would indicate that he does not have a material body, but a spiritual one. All who reside in the spirit realm have such bodies including Satan and the demons.

That a spirit body is required to be in heaven is confirmed by the Apostle Paul when he wrote concerning what kind of body those resurrected to heavenly life would be raised with, we read, “It is sown a physical body (Flesh), it is raised up a spiritual body (Spirit). If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one. It is even so written: “The first man Adam became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit” 1 Cor 15:44, 45.

Paul explains why this change from a physical body of flesh to a Spirit body is essential when he says of these ones who would be part of God’s Kingdom and who will reside in Heaven "As for us, our citizenship exists in the heavens" Philippians 3:20. “However, this I say, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s kingdom" 1 Corinthians 15:50

Since they were to inhabit the heavenly spirit realm of God, their bodies had to conform to the spirit realm.

When Jesus came to the earth from heaven the bible at John1:14 say’s of Jesus “So the Word became flesh”. From what we may ask did he become flesh, clearly from Spirit. While in this spirit form in heaven the book of Phillippians states of Jesus that he "Was existing in God's form" Phil 2:6. Yes, while he was in heaven he was in the same form as God, a spirit. To come to the earth he had to become a Man and be given a body of flesh, Become flesh, clearly then, he hadn't a body of flesh previously. After his death and resurrection he was destined to return to the Spirit Realm and and has been given back a spirit body. Paul understood this and so wrote, “Even if we have known Christ according to the flesh (while on earth), certainly we now know him so no more (now that he is back in heaven and is once again a spirit)” 2 Corinthians 5:16

Peter, a man who had personally met the resurrected Jesus also confirmed this when he stated, “Why, even Christ died once for all time concerning sins, a righteous [person] for unrighteous ones, that he might lead YOU to God, he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive (through his ressurection) in the spirit” 1 Peter 3:18

Christ explains how to receive everlasting life..To be born again. The flesh birth of course is impossible. We must be reborn in Spirit and have the Spirit manifest in ourselves...

KJV
John6:5-12 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily I say unto thee, Except a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of God. (6) Nicodemus saith unto him. How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? (5) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water, and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (6) That which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (7) Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. (8) The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. (9) Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? (10) Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Isreal, and knowest not these things? (11) Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. (12) If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things.Litteraly we must be born in the Spirit of God to enter heaven.

He explains in laymen's terms what everlasting life is like. How it is like never going thirsty again.

KJV
John 4:7-14 There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink (8) (For his disciples were gone away unto the city to buy meat.) (9) Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans. (10) Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewst the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water. (11) The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water? (12) Art thou greater than our father Jacob,which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle? (13) Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thrist again: (14) But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give himshall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Then Christ tells her to call her husband and come to Him...Really He is reffering to God..Ya know the story of the bridegroom who has prepared for His bride and such..That is how the kingdom is described to us...She says she has no husband and asks Christ how to get that water that is like everlasting life. She then goes on to say how her people have worshipped in physical places..

KJV John 4:15-20 The woman saith unto him, Sir, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come hither to draw. (16) Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither. (17) The woman answered and said, I have no husband, Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband: (18) For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly. (19) The woman saith unto him, Sir I percieve that thou art a prophet. (20) Our fathers worshipped in this mountian; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought worship.

Next Christ goes on to explain how the day will come when God will be worshipped not in the physical but in Spirit, and she is told by Christ that He will teach her and show her the way...

KJV John 4:21-26 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, not yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. (22) *Ye worship ye know not what:* we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. (23) But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. (24) God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. (25) The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. (26) Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.**Something they obviously cannot see..Something not physical or fleshy..

Afterward when the disciples return they make no quarrel about this woman comming to Christ. They do not question Y she is there. The woman then takes her faith and leaves her old waterpot (that always needed to be refilled, but since finding Christ she had no need b/c she had the living water so that she might never thirst again..i.e..everlasting life.) She then goes to tell others of the good news and send them to Christ. (She bids them that they pay Him a visit...He knew everything about me how can he not be the Christ?)

KJV John 4:27-29 And upon this came his diciples, and marvelled that he talked with the woman: yet no man said, What seekest thou? or, Why talkest thou with her? (28) The woman then left her waterpot, and went her way into the city, and saith to the men, (29) Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ?

In the following verses Christ again speaks of needing the Spirit and not the physical things..

KJV John 4:30-32 Then they went out of the city, and came unto him. (31) In the mean while his disciples prayed him, saying, Master, eat. (32) But he said unto them, I have meat to eat that ye know not of.

Is God limited to a Spirit only? Well heck no...Christ had a fleshy body. God can do whatever He wants. I think the valid point is what God wants of us..He desires us to worship Him in spirit..Christ Himself tells us that God is a Spirit and so desires to be worshipped that way. He says we cannot see Him in the physical sense, but it matters not. We are to be reborn in spirit and follow after Christ and heed His teaching. In another sense is Christ with me? Yes He is always with me even though I cannot see Him.

The human body and spirit is confined to the material realm and can only operate within the constraints of the laws of physics; time, space, distance and the law of entropy (gradual deterioration). We exist as humans for a very short time in the scheme of things.

The condition of the resurrected body ( 2 John 3:1-2)is not restricted by these conditions, and yet is able to operate within these limitations and beyond them.
Christians in this life, can and do, receive spiritual understanding, but cannot, without God's power that has been demonstrated in the Bible in unique cases, overcome the laws of physics.

twhite982 said:

My point exactly. Then why am I attacked on believing that God can have a tangile body, albeit not like the ones we have.

Click to expand...

I really cannot speak for others, but for myself I can just accept the fact that we are to worship God in spirit. If that is what God wants of us then that is what I think we should do. I think I understand Y you think it is not impossible for God to have a tangilble body. Like I said God is capable of anything, but He tells us what He wants of us when it comes to worship and the way in which we live our lives. He also says to be reborn, but seeing as though we cannot be reborn through the womb of our mother, we must be reborn in spirit. Reborn in the Spirit of God. The danger of God having a physical body after Christ has been sent is something that we are specifically warned against.ie. many will come in my name saying that I am Christ..where they say that he is do not go..So if a person with a physical body is going around saying that they are God or Christ we should be aware that they are in effect an anti-christ. God is not limited to any form, but it is made quite clear in the scriptures what happens when a person of the flesh declares themselves Christ or God after Jesus Christ...If you are looking for help besides the fact that God is capable of anything I am sorry, but I cannot give you help. The scriptures are quite clear that God is above man and wishes that in every way we worship Him in spirit. Even as to rebirth. The only physical manifestations that God wishes are water baptisim and communion. Our spirit is supposed to transcend the flesh so that during our flesh life our spirit may become as close as possible as a spirit. If it walks like a spirit, talks like a spirit, and acts like a spirit...It must be a spirit. God's power really is a mystery to human beings. He has no limitations, but His promises are always true. He said that flesh that comes after Christ is not of Christ, but actually His advesary..I hope now that you can understand Y everybody freaks when people say God is not just a Spirit..Also we are told that humans are beneath God..It wouldn't make much sense for God to want to be in a lower form unless of course when He sent Christ to teach us. Once was enough or we would not be facing the consequences for following other flesh teaching that he or she is the Christ.

twhite982 said:

In the context of John 4, I believe this is what Jesus is teaching. He builds up His entire case to the thesis that we must worship God in spirit.

Click to expand...

Not just there, but also in the fundementals of being a Christian and walking with Christ..One must be reborn in the Spirit of God, one must spiritually and physically be baptized, and one must spiritually eat the body of Christ and drink the blood of Christ. Even Christ was subject to the actual water baptisim, and so we are also subject to it. It is an act that pleases God, and one not to be taken into lightly. We cannot actually take a bite out of Christ in this day and age, so we have communion. Christ had a fleshy body at one point, but if someone were to come and say I am the Christ at this point and time...the scripture says he would be an antichrist. See the problem? If that were to happen then the rest of the bible would be a lie.

twhite982 said:

But again, in the modern translations the "A" is removed from John 4:24 in "God is a spirit", yet people still hold to the idea of limiting God to a spirit and nothing else. I personally believe God has a spirit just like I do. And in this way our spirits may communicate.

Click to expand...

Again God has no limitations, but any flesh that comes after Christ that claims to be him is an antichrist. I do not presume to know the mind of God but it only makes sense God would be wanting us to worship Him in spirit, and to be reborn in His Spirit. Not only for the Glory of God, but it also makes it plain that no flesh after Christ is equatable to God. It means on another level that the spiritual is above the physical or the tangible.

twhite982 said:

Aside from John 4:24 I haven't seen strong evidence to prove that God is only spirit, except a KJV MIS-TRANSLATION!

Click to expand...

Well if the KJV is a mis-translation than the rest of them must suffer the same penalty. The KJV was the first published. They had to base other translations on something. God is well aware of human error, and I think He has a hold on everything. The KJV may or may not seem archaic, but with the very first widespread publication of the word of God so that even common people could know His gospel...I sincerly doubt so many mistakes were made that it perverted His wants of His people.

Well, scripturally, I don't think you can argue that point. Traditionally you can.

One of the reasons I like the unorthodox forums.

That God is only a Spirit

twhite982 said:

God being described as spirit doesn't in any way preclude him from having a physical body. We here on earth have physical bodies as well as spirit bodies, coupled together they make who we are.

I was asking for other biblical evidence that limits God to only a physical body. John 4:24 does not do this IMHO.

BTW, the reference is to God the Father.

TW

Click to expand...

If God the father was flesh and bone, there would have been no need for God to come as flesh in the form of Jesus. One God three distinct purposes.

I think God has a lot more than three distinct puposes.

twhite982 said:

So you're saying that scripturally it can't be argued that "God is only a spirit".

Its been argued to me scripturally using John 4:24. But I was wondering if this is the only verse that supports this idea?

As a mormon, I'm considered a cultist and this being one of the major reasons, because I believe God has a corpeal nature.

Isn't there more to this belief than tradition?

Please help me understand, I really want to know.

TW

Click to expand...

Rather I think that the extreme scriptural evidence of God acting as a Spirit is telling us what He wants. Christ was in the flesh for a time for the purpose of teaching and as a sacrafice for our sin so that all might have the chance for salvation. As a whole in the bible God relates to people as a Spirit, and embues His Spirit inside of Christ. Litteraly. God took mercy on His children and sent Christ (who was manifested in the Spirit of God by God Himself). On the converse side there is no evidence that God has remained in a tangible form before or after Christ. I think this also speaks for itself and to the contrary of a physical body. God never manifested Himself in any sort of physical body before or after Christ. His Spirit moved people like Moses and Noah or an angel was sent to deliver the message. And an angel is also a spirit. Even in the OT everything is saying Spirit.

The bible is also quite clear that a house divided will not stand. In the NT the pharisees say that Christ is only able to cast out devils b/c He has a devil..Christ says no way. Beezlebub would only be defeating the purpose if he were going around casting devils out of people..which logically he would be. Allrighty then.. In the OT the very first book of the bible God casts out Adam and Eve. Now these people were created in the image of God, but obviously were not equal to God. If God had cast out those who were exactly like Him in all aspects He would be casting Himself out. He would be dividing Himself...and what happens when a house becomes divided? Christ gives us the answer. All throughout the bible God teaches us that no person or angel is equal to God. Satan even tries to take over the throne of God b/c he thinks he is better or equal with God. What happens to this guy? If a person thinks this of themselves then seeing that God is just the same would be in store for them.

explorerofmind said:

I think God has a lot more than three distinct puposes.

Click to expand...

I cannot speak for the OP, but I think the 3 distinct purposes might be in referal to the trinity. God has His purpose only, and the forms thereof encompass all. They are united in one.

hi.

i just wanted to comment on John 4:24. man is made up of three parts- soul, spirit, and flesh. flesh is the desires of man. spirit is the part of man that communes with God. the soul is the place where the two meet (i'll find a link to a Watchman Nee site that explains this with extensive scriptural proof soon). the point of John 4:24 was that our spirit is that which communes with God. our flesh cannot because God is of a different nature than us. He is not flesh and bones. He is spirit. thus, only in spirit can true worship take place.

http://www.worldinvisible.com/library/nee/sprtmnv1/1968cont.htm

http://www.worldinvisible.com/library/nee/sprtmnv2/1969cont.htm

http://www.worldinvisible.com/library/nee/sprtmnv3/sprtmnv3cont.htm

there are the links i promised. read them. it's really long, but absolutely some of the most amazing things i've ever read in my life. the first link is the one specifically relating to the concept i mentioned.

hey, wow. i just noticed that the thing to the right of my posts shows my age. that profile is a pretty cool thing.