The Greater and the Lesser YHWH

Hay Yall
This is Interesting what do you think of this,
Coming from a Messianic Rabbi.
I've been told a few times that I should go see this guy,
and this congragretion, and that they think alot like me.


By Rabbi Moshe Yoseph Koniuchowski



Most Believers in the New Testament are not fully Believers in Yahshua's own Words when it comes to His
position in YHWH. His testimony and His Father's testimony concerning Him contradict man's religious
edicts, interpretations and convocations. Councils such as Nicea and Constantinople only served to reinforce
the error of the trinity by causing sincere men and women to over look and even disregard the Words of
Messiah in favor of the words of men. Modern Judaism and Islam have gone to the other extreme stating that
monotheists cannot ever entertain a duality of powers (not persons) considered to be echad in the heavens.
That is all well and good, but ancient Judaism and more importantly the prophets, the sages, and the Messiah
of Israel, all speak a different message concerning true insight into understanding Elohim.


In John 10:29 Yahshua calls the Father, the Greatest Person/Power in the universe. He clarifies that by stating
that the “Father is greater than all.”[1] That all would then relegate Yahshua, as being “less great” in position
and all other attributes, since all attributes that He possesses are said to come/originate from the Father. The
Greek word for “greater” is meizon[2] meaning “greater”, “larger”, “stronger” or Elder”.The “Greater YHWH” is
also acknowledged as Yahshua’s own Elohim or Superior in many references such as John 20:17, Revelation
3:12 and countless other scriptures in both covenants.[3] This concept is eternal and eternally binding on all
worshippers in all generations. IT cannot be limited to a time from Bethlehem to Golgotha, as many
dispensationalists try to convey! Christians realize that the Father is greater BUT in order to preserve their
"holy cow" doctrine of the trinity, they caveat that by insisting that Yahshua’s lesser status was only for a
limited period of 33.5 years!


In order to fully grasp Messiah's own Words, worshippers are going to have to be willing to leave Trinitarian
dogma along with monotheistic explanations that are manmade, based on man’s dogma but not divine
revelation. When one accepts sola scriptura/scripture alone as divine revelation, one is left with a picture of
YHWH, that completely opposes all religious perversions of His nature.


Speaking of His own existence both before and after Bethlehem, the Messiah Yahshua teaches us in John
13:16 that the Servant, in this case the Suffering Servant of YHWH, is not greater than the One who sent Him.
That is plain and simple. There should be no argument and no dissenting opinion. In the literal Greek this
verse reads “Neither is the apostle or YHWH’s messenger (Malach in Hebrew) greater or the elder of Him
who sent Him.” He said in John 13:17, “blessed are you if you know these teachings!” What teachings must
we know? We must grasp that the Father is always greater the Yahshua. That is where the truth and the
blessings of comprehension reside!


Here Yahshua states that as the “Messenger of His Presence” known in times past as Metatron, He was not,
is not and will never be the elder over the Father or equal unto the Father. Unlike Christianity, Scripture does
not teach of a “plurality of equal elders” but of the Father above all, in all and through all including his Son.[4]
The Father is said to be Greater or larger or stronger, and the Elder of ALL, which includes the “Lesser
YHWH” Yahshua. Many times in Scripture, Paul teaches us this ancient Jewish understanding, by beginning
his epistles with a greeting in Elohim the Father the Elohim and Father of Yahshua the Messiah. He is not only
Yahshua's Father, but also His Elder Elohim. This is not to say or even hint at the denial of Yahshua’s deity.


That in Scripture is a foregone conclusion. Yahshua is fully and equally YHWH in that He is and has all that the
Father is and has, by first receiving all things from the Father. This bestowing upon Yahshua of all things from
the Father establishes Him forever as “YHWH the Lesser”, or the “Lesser YHWH”, eternally under the Elder or
Greater YHWH. This understanding may not initially sit well with the reader. It may make the reader very
uncomfortable, but it is pure Scripture, reiterated many times by the Messiah Himself. When properly grasped
it is a most liberating truth from the shackles of religion and man's puny attempts to explain His Creator, as
the clear references to the duality of divinity sets us free to worship in truth. This understanding is that “two
powers abide eternally as one”, in the heavens.


Yahshua Himself Declared


In John 14:28 Yahshua declares that “pater meizon mou” or “the Father is greater than me.” There are those
who teach that Yahshua was limited in His days as a man, and that the Father was greater than Yahshua
ONLY for those days when Yahshua was on earth. This cannot be so. Malachi 3:6 tells us that YHWH does not
change. Since YHWH is a plurality of divinity, then Yahshua, as the brought forth YHWH, or YHWH the Lesser
is always under the authority of YHWH the Greater. Hebrews 13:8 declares that Yahshua’s status had to be
the same for eternity, past, present, and future.


Throughout the Old Testament, it is YHWH the Greater always sending YHWH the Lesser as YHWH the
Lesser, Yahshua, is known as many things from the Messenger of YHWH to the Captain of YHWH’s Hosts, to
YHWH’s Face to the young man Metatron, to the Word/Memra of YHWH. In order to protect the heretical
views of the trinity, Christians of all persuasions have tampered with the Word of YHWH by applying
dispensational reasoning and human logic, into what is seen as a protection of Yahshua’s deity against
heretics. In so doing, they have refused Messiah's own teachings in both testaments, that He always was,
always is, and always will be YHWH, but YHWH the Lesser, who reflects, images, and perfectly magnifies
YHWH the Greater.


If these terms are puzzling, new or challenging to you, it is because religion has hid them well from you. That
has brought s.a.tan much joy. These references we site do not even hint at the fact that Yahshua’s submissive
role to YHWH the Father was in anyway limited to just 33.5 years on earth, nor does He make any reference
to His Lesser YHWH designation as being merely a “role within divine government”, or a “limiting human
condition” or a “lesser role player” in the so-called “pecking order” of heavenly government. These
understandings are isogesis or insertions of man's views into the texts. Yahshua does not speak of a
subservient position, or of a limited role as a Lesser YHWH for just 33.5 years. No, not at all. He speaks
plainly of an eternal state of being, YHWH that is eternally a submitted Lesser Power, which is exactly what
Scripture tells us, yet being fully YHWH.


Early Nazerenes


The early Nazarenes who actually wrote the Scriptures believed the truth of the Greater and Lesser YHWH,
since Yahshua taught them personally, before the “leaven of religion” crept in unawares. Yahshua warned us
about the false trinity (from Rome) and absolute unity (from Rambam’s “13 Principles of Faith”) heresies in
Matthew 13:33, where the leaven as a type of sin, leavens the truth of the one pure Bread of Life (Messiah).
Satan introduced leaven into 3 measures of meal or the 3 primary faces/pillars or manifestations of YHWH,
the Father, Son, and Spirit by turning them into persons at one extreme, and into one single face of YHWH at
the other extreme. Both extremes are to be avoided! The John 14:28 pronouncement is fully understandable
in combination with Hebrews 13:8, where Yahshua declares that He was, is and will yet be YHWH the Lesser
or “YHWH Ha Katan” forever. Both He and His Father never change and continue throughout eternity as
YHWH the Lesser submitted to YHWH the Elder. Apparently, much of organized religion chooses not to
remember the Words of Yahshua Himself as reiterated again in John 15:20, where Yahshua commands His
disciples to never forget this understanding. “Remember the [this] word that I said to you.”


The Ancients Understood


The ancients of Israel understood full well this concept of two literal powers in heaven, both being part of the
echad of Israel. We see this understanding in such places as Exodus 24:1-2, Psalm 110:1-5 (where one
YHWH converses with another YHWH), Ezekiel 10:1-2, Ezekiel 1:19-28, Daniel 7:9,13,14 and many other
places. In Genesis 19:23, for example, we see the “Sent YHWH” or “YHWH Katan” calling up to His Elohim or
YHWH the Greater who SENT Him to destroy the cities of the plains. The ancient sages of Israel referred to
the Lesser and Greater YHWH with the Lesser YHWH appearing to prophets such as Ezekiel in Ezekiel 1:28,
or as He did later on earth to his disciples.[5] In Jewish literature the understanding was that the Word of
YHWH, who we know to be Yahshua, was known as the Lesser YHWH or YHWH Ha Qatan.[6]
Yahshua did not come to earth with a new revelation. He was reiterating what had happened in the Old
Testament, as well as confirming the ancient understanding[7] of the Greater YHWH sending the Lesser
YHWH, with the Sent One being the One who carries the Divine Name. Yahshua reiterates that He is eternally
the Sent One or “Angel/Messenger of His Presence” and has come to be known as Messiah YHWH, to carry
the Divine Name to Israel through His disciples.[8] The Lesser YHWH was known as the “Guardian of Israel”,
as Yahshua refers to Himself in John 17:12, where He "is carrying" the divine name of YHWH, to deliver it to
the disciples, all the while claiming to be guarding them. In Aramaic He was known as Metatron.[9] The
Lesser YHWH received His Name from His role as guardian of YHWH’s people. Whether or not the concept
of the Lesser and Greater YHWH may be new to the reader is not the issue here. Yahshua taught it and we as
His true Torah honoring disciples must perceive Him as He is revealed, not as we might like to recreate Him
in our image after our likeness.
Jewish understanding does not only coincide with Messiah's revelation of Himself as YHWH Ha Qatan. We
are fortunate in that historical ecclesiastical records of the early Israelite Nazarenes have been preserved for
us to examine whether this truth was familiar and was embraced by them, or rather if this doctrine would have
seemed strange to them.


Epiphaneus states that the early Believers were “just like the Torah keeping Jews” and differed in no way
from their accepted practices.[10] The Israelite disciples then were no different than their non-believing
Jewish counterparts in all ways. Because of these Messianic Torah beliefs, the Nazarenes were considered
heretics along with another similar group by the name of the Cerinthians, named after Cerinthus, a Born
Again Believer who followed Torah. And what did his group believe?


According to Epiphaneus, they believed the same thing the early Nazarenes believed. What was that? They
believed in Messiah Yahshua, Torah and a view of Elohim that held that the world was not created by the
Supreme Deity but by a certain power emanating from Him. Epiphaneus 2:29:1 affirms that the Nazarenes
and Cerinthians held common views on the true Creator emanating from the Supreme One. According to this
historian, he couldn’t say who came first the Nazarenes or Cerinthians, but they held similar beliefs.[11]
Irenaeus, another anti-Nazarene, kirch historian and father who lived in 130-200 CE states that the
Cerinthians/Nazarenes taught that “the world was not made by the primary God [sic] but by a certain power
from Him, and at a distance from the Principality who is Supreme over the Universe and ignorant of Him who
is above all.”[12] Furthermore he also stated that, “But a certain Cerinthus himself being discipled in the
teachings of the Egyptians, asserted that the world was not made by the Primal Deity, but by some virtue
which was an offshoot [Branch/Tzemach/Messiah] Power, which is above all things.”[13] The idea of a Lesser
YHWH, still YHWH but above all powers, thrones, dominions, principalities, having preceded forth from YHWH
the Greater was so common among Yahshua’s disciples in the Nazarene, Ebonite and Cerinthians Torah
Messianic communities, that all these Messianic groups were labeled as heretics by the “church fathers.” Of
course, as the reader can see not much has changed.


Nevertheless Yahshua and the Old Testament teach the same thing, and as we return to the faith once for all
delivered to the saints, we can do no less. We can expect the same treatment from both sides of the issue.


We are left with the overwhelming evidence of Scripture, history and Messiah’s very own Words. No matter
how unsettling or new this understanding may be, it nonetheless stands solely on His Word in both covenants.
We have merely touched the tip of the iceberg on this subject of the Greater and Lesser YHWH, as we could
literally pen a separate work with hundreds of pages of documentation further substantiating the concept.


For Now


For now however, let the reader understand that the anti-missionary’s teachings flies in the face of all
testimony concerning the eternal identity of Messiah as YHWH. We have brought this concept to the reader in
order for the reader to understand that the concept of the Messiah being divine as YHWH emanating from the
Father YHWH, and yet not being the Father, but One of two ruling powers in heaven in one echad, is the most
Jewish of concepts. Moreover, it remains the most Messianic of concepts, and most importantly the truest
understanding of YHWH-Elohim-Echad, explaining all the “duality of divinity” references in the Old Testament.
This understanding preserves Abba-YHWH as the Greatest of all powers in this age, and in all the worlds
without end.

Le Chaim... To life!


[1] John 10:29
[2] Strongs Greek # 3187
[3] For a full consideration on the topic see Messiah Volume Three B. Mordechai chapters daled and kuf
[4] Ephesians 4:6
[5] Zohar, Shemot Section 2. p. 126 a
[6] Messiah, Volume Three p. 392
[7] Zohar Amsterdam Edition p. 114 Col 1
[8] John 17:12
[9] Aramaic word for guardian
[10] Parnarion Eusebius Section 29,7. 1-9:5
[11] Epiphanius Panarion 2:29:1
[12] Irenaeus, The Refutation Of All Heresies Chapter 20 p. sec 1 p351-352
[13] Ibid. P.114

This, once again is kabbalah.


HT, Explain where Kabbalah is used in this paper?

I admit the man is looking at things much diffrent then I but I agree with most of it.

Ooooops Hit post.

(YHWH, still YHWH but above all powers, thrones, dominions, principalities, having preceded forth from YHWH
the Greater was so common among Yahshua’s disciples in the Nazarene, Ebonite and Cerinthians Torah
Messianic communities, that all these Messianic groups were labeled as heretics by the “church fathers.” Of
course, as the reader can see not much has changed.)


To me this is an interesting statement because I have studied how many or the True YAHUDAH were put to death. And most of it gives detailed description of the Torcher but very, very little about the crime.
Detailed Information on how they were killed.
but Why is a big Question?
The disciples included.

Being able to differentiate between The FATHER ELOHIM and The SON ELOHIM in the NT.-----

ELOHIM created the physical universe. Gen 1

The YHWH ELOHIM of the OT is not The FATHER ELOHIM that first existed. Gen 2:4 YHWH ELOHIM

YHWH ELOHIM of the OT is the FATHER of the physical creation in that all things that are physical were created by HIM.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was with ELOHIM, and the WORD was ELOHIM.
John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with ELOHIM.
John 1:3 All things were made by HIM; and without HIM was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:4 In HIM was life; and the life was the light of men.
YHWH ELOHIM of the OT was the being that Physical man had contact.

YHWH ELOHIM of the OT is the right arm of The FATHER.

YHWH ELOHIM of the OT was given responsiblity for bringing salvation to mankind.

YHWH ELOHIM of the OT gave up HIS glorified body to become physical in the form of YAH's Salvation(YAHSHUA)the Messiah the annointed.

YAHSHUA revealed The FATHER ELOHIM.

Mat 11:27 All things are delivered unto ME of MY FATHER: and no man knoweth the SON, but the FATHER; neither knoweth any man the FATHER, save the SON, and HE to whomsoever the SON will reveal HIM.
Luk 10:22 All things are delivered to ME of MY FATHER: and no man knoweth who the SON is, but the FATHER; and who the FATHER is, but the SON, and HE to whom the SON will reveal HIM.

Mat 11:25 At that time YAHSHUA answered and said, I thank thee, O FATHER, Adonay of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

Well sun worshiper I'm not sure I know what you want me to explain.

I think that the YHWH ELOHIM of the OT That was seen by Humans, and Showed the WILL of the FATHER to mankind Was The SON (YAHSHUA).

The FATHER YHWH ELOHIM which I
believe Should be Translated in a singual forum like FATHER YHWH EL or ELAH, is also Part of the OLD TESTAMENT. But Mankind has not seen the FATHER except Through the SON.

I believe the SON pre-exsisted as the First of the FATHER's creations. HE was and is the RIGHT HAND of the FATHER. He was born of Flesh and became 100% Human. But YAHSHUA was created Before that. And HE is not The FATHER for the FATHER is GREATER. So it Seems to me That We have a GREATER YHWH The FATHER Who is the EL of the Lesser YHWH.
In other words there WAS a FATHER and SON in the OT.

Is that what you did not understand From me.

Again I believe YHWH to be a FAMILY name, and applies to both FATHER and SON. I believe that YAH is the FATHER's name and HE is EL.
I believe YAHSHUA is the SON's name and That YAHSHUA is our ELOHIM but not our EL.
Because there is only one EL that is the FATHER.
I believe they are both YHWH. I also believe that any other Being that is part of the FAMILY of the FATHER YAH is also YHWH, and also Our ELOHIM, but not our EL. If there are other ANGELS with FATHER YAH in HEAVEN they are obeying the WILL of the FATHER which makes them Greater then us. ELOHIM- mighty ones.
But I also believe we will be Greater then the other angels because we will be overcomers. We were born in sin and chose to follow the WILL of FATHER YAH. But not Like YAHSHUA did, YAHSHUA will always be GREATER then US HE will always be Our ELOHIM and FATHER YAH will always be our EL.

SonWorshipper said:

OK, how can he be the creator if he is created?

And Sabian please be careful, I am not pagan, I worship the SON only,

Click to expand...

Yes it looks like I need to be careful. I do not understand your statement?
I worship the SON only? You do not worship the FATHER ? Or you believe the SON is the FATHER? You say I am not Pagan , I never said you were.
Or are you saying my views are pagan? Please help me out here because i do not understand you.

(how can he be the creator if he is created?) I believe that it is the FATHER's WILL but YAHSHUA's hands that Created.

Oooops did not mean to type Sun.

YES I believe YAHSHUA's hands created the EARTH and US Through FATHER YAH's WILL.
But it was the FATHER's HANDS that created YAHSHUA and I dare say , the angels and Heaven. We are a seperate Creation. All was not created at one time. In fact Creation is still Happening.