The Flood

Wasp said:

Shame that Calculus homework, a need for sleep, and a 7:30 class prohibit me from continuing at the moment. I'll come back tomorrow!

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Big deal I have Chemistry at 7:30. Maybe you're in a different time zone? You Pacific?

Did creation say it wasn't so, or did (fallen) human scientists?

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Creation. If you like I can once post several falsifications that involve data untouchable by scientists.

Trace the lineage of Jesus to see that it is approximately 6,000 years.

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Trace the lineage of the Pharoahs to see that it is approximately 5,000 years. Oops, that goes right through the flood date, huh? Dang!

So to answer your question, Leviticus is inspired. God permitted divorce because of the hardened hearts of the Israelites, however he never approved of it.

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Then why do you hold a double standard with regards to Genesis? Genesis can be inspired and God could have permitted the Hebrews to write a creation story they could actually understand (they would not understand the concepts of the big bang, the nature of matter and energy, gravity, nuclear fusion, supernovas, planetary formation, abiogenesis, genetic mutations, heredity, or natural selection). Why must Genesis be different from Leviticus?

In addition, you are pitting scripture against scripture in one analogy, and scripture verse man in another. False analogy. Show me the verse where Christ, Paul, John, etc. say "Oh by the way, God was just joking when he revealed Genesis."

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So are you saying that the nature of existance is not on equal footing with scripture? Would God design reality to conflict with His Word?

Wasp said:

You make that decision yourself, Jet Black

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what's the oklo phenomenon then?

Creation groans awaiting liberation for sin (Romans 8:22)...I didn't know that it also groaned that God lied to mankind?

Wasp said:

Creation groans awaiting liberation for sin (Romans 8:22)...I didn't know that it also groaned that God lied to mankind?

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Is the Bible part of God's creation?

Central time...I'd take chem over calc anyday!!!

I'll get back to your posts, but for the moment I simply must retire.

At the very least, we can at least be glad to see that this thread is alive and well! (Through 15 pages of evolution)

Wasp said:

So if what scientists believe at a given date contradicts scripture, then Science trumps God? Hmm...

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Overwhelming evidence trumps a literal interpretation of the Bible. This is why I do not believe the whole world was taxed despite Luke 2:1

How was creation not a miracle?

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YEC would be a miracle but the evidence shows that this particular miracle never happened. We are not saying God *couldn't* have created 6,000 years ago, we are saying that the data shows that He didn't.

Conclusive evidence?

For you maybe.

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If it is not conclusive then please refute it:


The organization of fossils spanning the American midwest

The world's biogeography showing that a global flood could not have occured

Features of the Grand Canyon that could not exist if a global flood occured

Lines of evidence revolving around the Hawaiian Islands which falsify a global flood

Further evidence from the Hawaiian Islands which falsify a global flood

The presence of angular nonconformities falsify a global flood

The presence of varves falsify a global flood

The sheer mathematical impossibility of a global flood falsifies it

Extensive salt deposits falsify a global flood

Massive volcanic events and large impact craters falsify a young earth

Here can be seen Frumious Bandersnatches analysis of massive, quick tectonic changes required to quickly raise mountains

Y chromosome DNA falsifies the theory that the MRCA for humanity lived 4,500 years ago

Useless features (such as my elephant bird's humerus) falsify an "intelligent" designer

Same with these whale hindlimbs

Same with these vestigial structures (genetic and otherwise)

Cultures extending through the proposed date of a global flood falsify it

The inability of YECs to determine which strata are pre, post, and flood strata make's their stance on scientific ground shaky

This set of dinosaur footprints falsifies a global flood

The cosmic microwave background falsifies a young universe

Stellar distances falsify a young universe

The following characteristics of certain genes, proteins, and endogenous retroviruses provide evidence for evolution and falsify a "non-deceptive" creator

The enormous amount of transitional fossils falsify special creation by anything but a creator looking to trick us

Corresponding dates arrived with radiometric dating falsify beyond a shadow of a doubt a young earth

Dendrochronology falsifies a young earth

I didn't know that it also groaned that God lied to mankind?

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Did God lie when he allowed Moses to write that divorce was okay?

Did God lie when he allowed Moses to write that divorce was okay?

Been covered, scroll up

Wasp said:

Central time...I'd take chem over calc anyday!!!

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Oh, not me. Calc is a blessing compared to Chem. I have anthropology right afterwards though; something to look forward to.

I'll get back to your posts, but for the moment I simply must retire.

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I'll be looking forward to them

Wasp said:

Been covered, scroll up

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And I covered your response, scroll up

I'm not new to this forum or these types of threads. I refuse to sit here and read through 50 links that I have already read. You know the evidence that YEC claims, and I know the lies that evolutionists claim. Same stuff back and forth shan't change anyone's mind. I really just wanted justification scientifically for the resurrection of Christ. But beware troodon, this is where your agnostic/atheist fellows will leave your side. (Miracle don't seem to stand up scientifically)

troodon said:

And I covered your response, scroll up

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Good show troodon, I am a filthy liar but I really will try to leave sometime soon...for my sake. What school are you attending?

Wasp said:

I really just wanted justification scientifically for the resurrection of Christ. But beware troodon, this is where your agnostic/atheist fellows will leave your side. (Miracle don't seem to stand up scientifically)

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as an agnostic/atheist scientist, Iwould just like to say that the resurrection of christ was supposed to be a miracle, not a normal natural event. so science can't touch it. The ressurection becomes a matter of faith, since there is no evidence for or against it (other than "eyewitness accounts"). In short, if people want to believe in it, that is fine by me, I have no scientific quarrel with them.

Creation was a miracle, as was the resurrection, as is every breath that we take.

Wasp said:

I refuse to sit here and read through 50 links that I have already read.

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Fair enough; I dislike having to refute whole YEC sites as well. I just ask you, tomorrow, deal with this one. No lies, no false claims. I wrote it and I stand by every comment I made in it. If you can explain it then you are the only YEC who can.

I really just wanted justification scientifically for the resurrection of Christ.

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I don't believe in Christ's resurrection because of science; I do it because it is the only logical conclusion that I can come to given the evidence at hand.

But beware troodon, this is where your agnostic/atheist fellows will leave your side. (Miracle don't seem to stand up scientifically)

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Of course they'll disagree with me on that point; doesn't mean that they are right. Just because I agree with the agnostics on this board on some issues (evolution among them) does not mean that I won't deal with attacks on Christianity. I have made brief forays into the Apologetics forum (even though I dread apologetics ).

I am a filthy liar

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did I miss something?

I really will try to leave sometime soon

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good night... eventually

What school are you attending?

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University of California - Davis

Wasp said:

Creation was a miracle, as was the resurrection, as is every breath that we take.

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So breathing does not have a scientific explanation now?

Wasp, please answer why the Bible should put so much emphasis on every day of creation. Why would God have to work progressively if he could just make it suddenly? It is fairly obvious that God is working progressively. And now, with our scientific findings, we see that the "days" are actually major time frames. I have heard many people interpret these time frames and they actually do work.

Your scripture about scripture being divine was not what you thought. 2 Timothy tells us that it is useful, not key to the faith. The Word is Jesus. Not the Bible. And Jesus tells us to love- which is the sum of the prophets.

Michali said:

Wasp, please answer why the Bible should put so much emphasis on every day of creation. Why would God have to work progressively if he could just make it suddenly? It is fairly obvious that God is working progressively. And now, with our scientific findings, we see that the "days" are actually major time frames. I have heard many people interpret these time frames and they actually do work.

Your scripture about scripture being divine was not what you thought. 2 Timothy tells us that it is useful, not key to the faith. The Word is Jesus. Not the Bible. And Jesus tells us to love- which is the sum of the prophets.

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That is a fairly hasty generalization. You make a few sweeping claims without any reasoning. We see that days are actually major time frames? I don't, especially not when taken in a biblical perspective. You will have to explain to me then why God created plants before he created the sun, moon, and stars. And if you are using an evolutionist perspective, why he made the sun, moon, and stars millions of years after plants?

Michali said:

The Word is Jesus. Not the Bible.

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Wonder why Jesus taught from the Bible than?

The Word is not the Bible? Hmm...we would need to step into a theological thread on this one.

Well written troodon.

I don't claim to be a scientist and I admit that I can't explain what you have written. However, I still don't see how that is conclusive evidence.

I was a liar cause I claimed to be going to sleep at an earlier time, but interesting posts prohibited me.

I hope you made it to your class, I skipped mine