Church Members Who Commit Sexual Sin

Originally posted by Debbie
Thanks dave, the nab footnote helped. Yes, the harvest is at the 2nd coming & only God can judge salvation. AS your footnote & Fishers of men pointed out, patience & preaching of repentance is required.
At least we all agree so far that repentance is required, but what if the church memeber shows no sign of wanting to repent?

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Pray Harder .

It seems to me you already knew the answers to these questions. Didn't we discuss this in the homosexuality thread? Are you trying to prove a point or see what other people say?

I'd also like to add, anyone going out of their way to go to church is trying to become a better person. There have to be a very slim percentage of the church population who go just to sit in the confy seats and for some free coffee.

If someone has the mind set that they are going to try to repent, no one in God's green earth should have the right to make them leave church, Period.

This fictional person, the one who is rebelous, and goes to church drunk and homsexual at the same time, does he/she go for any reason at all? If this same person has not even a hint of remorse or regret of their bondage of sin, I question, why are they there.

I ask because I'm wondering if such a person exitsts.

"I'd also like to add, anyone going out of their way to go to church is trying to become a better person. "

dude, I guess you haven't been to church in a lonnngg time. I would say the current church is rampet with people that DON'T go to church to be better people.

"If someone has the mind set that they are going to try to repent, no one in God's green earth should have the right to make them leave church, Period. "

That's the point. If they are repenting. If they are not that is unrepentant sin that is harmful to the body.

A truly tough question. For those sins that I can't see like, a person lusting after person thus committed adultery, or a person who does not love his brother has committed murder. Those sins God will judge because God can see those sins. I can't see those sins, so I can't do anything about it.

But for those other sins that I can see like homosexual, adultery, incest, I would confront them in private. But it's important that they know that my confrontation comes from love & compassion, and not from an eye of judgment. Another important thing is I would want to know how they feel and what they think about it. And I would periodically check to see the progress and how the person is dealing with the issue or if that person is dealing with it at all.

But I definitely think that issue should be addressed. After all, are we or are we not salt of the world?

You guys are good!

I can see the Spirit at work everyday on this board. You deal with some of the hardest problems and misunderstandings of man. There is this vast exchange of thought from people of different experiences and circumstances. You listen to each other, with a desire not to win a debate, but to further the envelopment of mankind within the arms of Christ. I am blessed to be here.

I have little more to add to this thread. You have said it all. Yes, our Churches are to be kept sacred… but not secret. Anyone guilty of desecrating the house of God should be banished. But a sinner , as we all are, must be welcome. However, this notion of acceptance of sin, is not of God. We are not to weaken our desire to please our God. It will take a lot of praying and work of the Spirit to separate the sinner from his sin. This is a task more universal then just the individual suffering from the sin. This separation must come into your own hearts and souls. If God’s will is to be done, than we must see the sinner separate from the sin. All people are worthy of love. Learning to love, as Jesus taught , is the work of Christians.

Please accept my hug LOVE

Originally posted by Catchup
You guys are good!

I can see the Spirit at work everyday on this board. You deal with some of the hardest problems and misunderstandings of man. There is this vast exchange of thought from people of different experiences and circumstances. You listen to each other, with a desire not to win a debate, but to further the envelopment of mankind within the arms of Christ. I am blessed to be here.

I have little more to add to this thread. You have said it all. Yes, our Churches are to be kept sacred… but not secret. Anyone guilty of desecrating the house of God should be banished. But a sinner , as we all are, must be welcome. However, this notion of acceptance of sin, is not of God. We are not to weaken our desire to please our God. It will take a lot of praying and work of the Spirit to separate the sinner from his sin. This is a task more universal then just the individual suffering from the sin. This separation must come into your own hearts and souls. If God’s will is to be done, than we must see the sinner separate from the sin. All people are worthy of love. Learning to love, as Jesus taught , is the work of Christians.

Please accept my hug LOVE

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Amen to that!

I too am blessed to be here!

Praise God!

I haven't been able to get this subject out of my mind, but I would like to make a suggestion. If any are willing, I would like to request people to join me to commit to 15 minutes a day in prayer for these people who are church attenders, yet not having much success with turning from their sin. It seems especially sexual sin is a real stronghold for people who have become involved in it. Not just homosexual behavior, but adultery, inappropriate contentography, etc. Maybe "where 2 or 3 gather in His name" we can lift these people before Him, asking Jesus to give them a true sorrow and also to fill them with His power--to resist this evil. I just feel that some of these people can go on to becoming mighty warriors of God, because after all.....he who is forgiven much, loves much. Will anyone join me?

Hi Debbie; I think it is important to understand that the "church", according to the bible, has been described as a gathering of people, not an actual building. What truly matters is keeping the commandments and the word of God; whether it is in your own home, or otherwise. Remember how Jesus was not at all impressed with the temple, as his disciples were. But told them, that one stone would not be left upon another, that would not be thrown down.
So the church is within ourselves.
What you are asking is; what will happen to those "church members" who willingly offend God, and seek no repentance?
Jesus tells us that we cannot hate our brother, and also serve him. No man can have two masters. If we break one of the commandments, we break them all. And if we sin, knowing that we can be forgiven by Jesus, it will not be forgiven to us. The book of Revelation tells us this;
chapter 22
"He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according to his work shall be.
I am the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and enter in through the gates into the city.
For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Wildfire

by Wildfire...And if we sin, knowing that we can be forgiven by Jesus, it will not be forgiven to us.

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Where did you get that idea?

All sin is forgiven by God if we are saved and ask for forgiveness.

At least that is MY understanding of the Gospel.

Originally posted by Wildfire
Jesus tells us that we cannot hate our brother... Wildfire

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Not all acts are acts of hate - even if it hurts.

soulsister;
In the book of Hebrews, chapter 10, I read this:

For if we sin willfully after that we have recieved the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.

I don't believe this means that we will not be saved. We are told that many shall be called, but few chosen.

Remember how we are told that if our right hand offends us, we are to cut it off or if our eye betrays us, we are to pluck it out and cast if from us? <because> it is better to enter eternal life maimed, rather than our hands and feet thrown into the lake of fire.
It is written that we shall be judged according to our works. And there is the parable of talents; which to each man was given according to his own ability, and then his reward from Christ for what he had gained.

Charity is the greatest of all things, and if we follow after that it shall cover a multitude of sins.

So if we (knowingly, willfully) sin on purpose, believing that it will be instantly forgiven, this scripture tells us that it is not so.
The book of Corinthians is interesting; here the mysteries of our bodily members vs. the spiritual members of Christ are explained.

We are told to strive for perfection; to seek that which is above, and not here on earth.
Tha is what I was trying to emphasize. I'm sorry if I confused anyone.
Wildfire

It is okay Wildfire, it got me thinking...

I actually started a thread on it see Deliberate Sin - Not Forgiven.

I did find that verse.

It still puzzles me though...

Still doesn't quite sit right...

Maybe I am scared...Oh well, see that thread...I don't want to get off topic

I just read an excellent essay on church discipline. One key thing to remember that "expelling" the immoral brother is for redemptive purposes, not punitive. It is ment to remove fellowship with the church, BUT NOT to remove your care for that person. YOu don't shun them but they are to realize they are wrong in their sin. Read 1 cor..great book.

I just stumbled across this verse, God is great!

Galatians 6[NIV]
1 Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted.
2 Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ

Makes sense to me!

Praise God!

Give God all the Glory for this one!

Hi soulsister; yes I have seen that thread. I am happy to have encouraged some deeper searching on your part and any others who may have read this. I don't want you to feel scared; that was not my intention. <Fear him> yes. <Love him> and you will not be left comfortless.
What shall happen to all of us, after our death is a wonderful mystery. We are told that we shall all change, from a physical body (earth) to a spiritual body (heaven). Jesus spoke in many parables, and I greatly enjoy this. He also said, that he will talk to us plainly, and show us the mysteries of life and of his father.

We are told; The part of ourselves that betray us into sin, should be "cut off" from our body, so that our entire (being) is not cast into the lake of fire. I find this interesting. As the book of Corinthians explain how we are all members of Christs' body, so are we made up of members of our own bodies. The ear is not greater than the eye, the hand not greater than the foot, but working together as one. If one member feels pain, the entire body suffers; so is it with Christ.
There appears to be a greater plan of our lives with God after this one; judged by our works here on earth, our spiritual (members) shall be placed accordingly with Christ as it so pleases him.

Wildfire

Reading Wildfile's post reminded me of this scripture:

If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell. Matthew 5:29 - 30

Thanks Wildfire. Prior to reading your post, I was sure of what I would do if a church member who sinned without repentance. But I think Matthew 5:29-30 has made it clear for me.

Confronting or punishing the sinner is not the church's job. It is God's.

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I am surprised that noone has mentioned Matthew 18:15-18

(Jesus said: )
"And if your brother sins, go and reprove him in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. And if he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax-gatherer. Truly I say to you, whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. "

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And the heart attitude is revealed in the Galatians 6:1-2 passage.

Umm...yes it is the peoples job. paul also says it very clearly. Go to him privately, then with a witness, then as a church..then its time to take more drastic action.

and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax-gatherer.

How would you interpret this? Which actions are appropriate to fit the interpretation of this verse?

The action is you withdraw your fellowship from this person.