Jews for Jesus

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mjterry87

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Is the MJAA, or IAMS associated with this group? Also, how do you guys and basically all of Messianic Judaism feel about this group? Does it truley represent Messianic Judaism, or Christanity for Jews? (P.S. I am not trying to Christian bash :sorry: again :sorry: ) I am just curious?
 

Shimshon

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I do not believe they co-exist in unity. From my experience JJ is more "hebrew christian" than messianic jewish. But when you read the MJAA statement of faith you find they consider themselves former HC's. That HC is now MJ. I believe that in the plethera of congregations that call themselves MJ most do not agree with the JJ mission. JJ seeks to bring Y'hudim into Christian church settings and ways. Most of todays MJ seeks to bring Y'hudim and Goyim into a mixture of Christian/Jewish ways I term as "Messianic Rabbinicalism" while maintaining Hebrew Christian roots.

In short, JJ and the MJAA seem to state similar missions but from opposite points of the spectrum. I do not believe they are associated together. At least I've not seen this. JJ has more of a hebrew christian perspective. (Jews can be Christian) MJ has more of a messianic rabbinical perspective (Christians can be Rabbinically Orthodox). Neither are hitting the mark in my opinion. Note: MY OPINION.

b,shalom
shimshon
 
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iitb

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Pray4Isrel said:
I personally do not agree with the J4J approach...
And I would say it's more of a Christianity for Jews as opposed to actual Messianic Judaism.
I tend to agree. I've heard a few less than positive stories about some of J4J's evangelical techniques, which make me a little wary of this group.
 
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mjterry87

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I am not trying to Christian Bash, but do you guys feel the same way about guys like, I think his name is Benny Hinn, or Hill? You know, these evangelical Christians who go to these large stadiums and "heal" people, and who are shouting at the top of there lungs, and in toungs? I mean, that is one of the reasons who I started to look into Judaism. What do you gusy think? I think that it is wrong to do things like that, and try and trick people into believing in something. I don't know.
 
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Wags

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mjterry87 said:
I am not trying to Christian Bash, but do you guys feel the same way about guys like, I think his name is Benny Hinn, or Hill? You know, these evangelical Christians who go to these large stadiums and "heal" people, and who are shouting at the top of there lungs, and in toungs? I mean, that is one of the reasons who I started to look into Judaism. What do you gusy think? I think that it is wrong to do things like that, and try and trick people into believing in something. I don't know.

Benny Hill :D Naughty English COMEDIAN
Benny Hinn :( Naughty (and VERY controversial) "religious leader"!!

Here is just one of many websites that exposes the truth about Benny Hinn
http://www.banner.org.uk/wof/Hinn.html
 
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yod

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I appreciate that the J4J is very focused on evangelism. Sure, sometimes an individual will be overly aggressive or pushy or whatever...but they are at least obeying the Great Commission.

There are a lot of messianics in J4J but the organization itself is not. In fact, it's probably safe to say that they view messianics as being "distracted" by things other than the Great Commission.
 
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P_G

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I have nothing bad at all to say about J4J but I would not call them messianic. For the most part they do not embrace torah or any sense of "jewishness" And there is very little save for asking for donations that they have to do with Gentiles.

I beleive that their roots are in the Baptist church but I could be wrong on that.

I think that in the similar line I would steer people towards Chosen People Ministries.

PG
 
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Ahavah

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yod said:
I appreciate that the J4J is very focused on evangelism. Sure, sometimes an individual will be overly aggressive or pushy or whatever...but they are at least obeying the Great Commission.
Evangelism....Aughhhhhhh...What ever happened to just walking out what Yeshua wants us to walk out. Be "Torah" like. I've always seen evangelism as "christian" talk trying to get the people into the churches.:sick: Just me....
 
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yod

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Wasn't it Yeshua who said to his jewish followers "Go into all the world and preach the good news to every creature, and lo I am with you always"???

No go...no lo.



I have a lot of MESSIANIC JEWISH friends J4J. The organization is not about promoting judaism...they are about making sure that jewish people hear the gospel. Is that a bad thing or is it just uncomfortable for the rest of us to consider?

I praise Adonai for every time that Yeshua is preached!!! Who has been a bolder witness to the jewish people than J4J? They are the BRAND NAME of jewish evangelism by jewish people to jewish people.

They have also been extremely helpful in church/jewish relations because there is no ambiguity about where they stand. I have a friend who was in The Liberated Wailing Wall (music ministry of J4J) and they went into thousands of churches to show Messiah in the Passover...and to help gentiles understand the need for a specific understanding of jewish people. These folks had to commit to living on a bus for 2 years to do this! What kind of dedicated nut would do that? Someone who really wanted to reach their people.:prayer:

Chosen People Ministries is another ministry like J4J in that they aren't concerned with spreading judaism...they are focused on Romans 1:16
 
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Sephania

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I agree that there is the commision given thousands of years ago,and now it is coming full circle. The only thing I think that they are doing wrong is instead of steering the new Jewish believers in their Messiah to a Messianic congregation, they are still ( that I know of) steering them into Protestant churches. Now some of these churches may even be the ones that are cutting themselves off from supporting Israel and that ain't good.
 
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Shimshon

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17 And these signs will accompany those who do trust: in my name they will drive out demons, speak with new tongues, 18 not be injured if they handle snakes or drink poison, and heal the sick by laying hands on them."

If your going to stand on verse 15 will you not also include the rest of the paragraph? Sure, preach it. But what good does it do to only be told? And not be shown how. As Zayit hinted at, leading them to protestand churches after telling them an inacruate witness is useful in what way?

We were told to tell the whole world, AND that these things would follow. But all I see from most evangelical organizations is "Tell them Tell them".... But, as Yochanan said:

"8 If you have really turned from your sins to God, produce fruit that will prove it! 9 And don't suppose you can comfort yourselves by saying, `Avraham is our father'! For I tell you that God can raise up for Avraham sons from these stones! 10 Already the axe is at the root of the trees, ready to strike; every tree that doesn't produce good fruit will be chopped down and thrown in the fire!

Seems Yochanan didn't just go around telling about the comming, he also told them that if they wern't producing fruit (backing up thier words with actions) the axe was ready to strike them down. And 'don't just say' "Avraham is our father, or Yeshua is L-rd, or REPENT" DO it, SHOW them, Lead the way in this crooked world. Make the path straight for him. Don't deviate to the left or the right, but hit the mark he shoot you toward.

Don't just tell 'em.

b,shalom
shimshon
 
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yod

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Torah observance does not necesssarily equal good fruit (if that is what you are saying)

But seriously folks....we are all part of the same Body. I don't agree with everything J4J does but I rejoice for them!

And where do we send the new believers? It really would depend on where a person lives. There are decent churches almost everywhere but the same can not be said about messianic congregations. Knowing how organized J4J is, they are certainly not sending these people to places without some idea of what is being taught.

You can usually count on the average church to teach the basic fundamentals of being a new creation. They usually have better youth ministries too. I wish that every new believer could go to Baruch HaShem in Dallas but it just isn't possible.
 
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Yahudim

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Ahavah said:
Evangelism....Aughhhhhhh...What ever happened to just walking out what Yeshua wants us to walk out. Be "Torah" like. I've always seen evangelism as "christian" talk trying to get the people into the churches.:sick: Just me....
Shalom Ahavah, :wave:

It seems that there is a "catch" to this evangelism stuff.
Mat 28:18 Yeshua came to them and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth.
Mat 28:19 Therefore go, and make talmidim of all nations, immersing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you. Behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amein.
The problem seems to be that whoever "evangelizes" them is supposted to "disciple" them. The questions then becomes, whos interpretations of scripture do you think that they should learn? A basically christian perspective or a contextually accurate Hebraic perspective? Should these new talmidim learn the doctrines of those that followed Constantine's directives? Or should they learn the doctrines of Yeshua HaMeshiach?

His teaching was always the same. Even way back when He instructed the seventy, He told them to abide with those that were receptive to His message:
Luk 10:7 Remain in that same house, eating and drinking the things they give, for the laborer is worthy of his wages. Don't go from house to house.
And so it is today. We are to teach those new to His teachings to, "observe all things that I commanded you." So... Do you think that J4J or the general Christian community disciples in that way? I don't.

b'Shalom
tal
 
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Sephania

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talmidim said:
Shalom Ahavah, :wave:

It seems that there is a "catch" to this evangelism stuff.

The problem seems to be that whoever "evangelizes" them is supposted to "disciple" them. The questions then becomes, whos interpretations of scripture do you think that they should learn? A basically christian perspective or a contextually accurate Hebraic perspective? Should these new talmidim learn the doctrines of those that followed Constantine's directives? Or should they learn the doctrines of Yeshua HaMeshiach?

His teaching was always the same. Even way back when He instructed the seventy, He told them to abide with those that were receptive to His message:
And so it is today. We are to teach those new to His teachings to, "observe all things that I commanded you." So... Do you think that J4J or the general Christian community disciples in that way? I don't.

b'Shalom
tal
:thumbsup: Well said talmidim! And yod, I don't think he was implying that they be sent to orthodox shuls. But if so that would be better than being made to no longer follow your traditions as HaShem Commanded. Do you think it right that someone raised at least nominally Jewish that celebrated Pasche each year, come to know Yeshua and then be but into a church that teaches Easter? Instead of what the whole Passover fulfillment is? Yeshua warned to stay away from the traditions of men, and I don't believe he meant only those invented by Hebrews. ;)
 
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Shimshon

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Yes, babies in Moshiach need milk as any baby does.
And Shaul here equates these babies as 'worldly' not 'spiritual'. In need of milk.
1 Corinthians 3:1-4 1 As for me, brothers, I couldn't talk to you as spiritual people but as worldly people, as babies, so far as experience with the Messiah is concerned. 2 I gave you milk, not solid food, because you were not yet ready for it. But you aren't ready for it now either! 3 For you are still worldly!

But, the milk needs to be PURE. We don't feed our babies anything but organic milk that has not been injected with Vit. D3. This added man made substance is usually made of pig brains or some other form of non-kosher substance. They say your body needs it. Though your body produces the chemical itself naturally (by Elohim) they say we need more of it. So they manufacture this genetically altered non-kosher substance and add it to your milk. "UNPURE" milk. Will keep your baby alive but will cause much trouble in the future. This pure milk is described here as being free from malice, deceit, HYPOCRACY, envy and all the ways of rebelling against others.
1 Peter 2:1-3 1 Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice, of all deceit, hypocrisy and envy, and of all the ways there are of speaking against people; 2 and be like newborn babies, thirsty for the pure milk of the Word; so that by it, you may grow up into deliverance. 3 For you have tasted that ADONAI is good.
He we see that we are to drink this 'pure' milk in training. To become experienced in applying the Word about righteousness. Traning by continuously exercising our ability to distinguish good from evil. Not by mixing them.

Hebrews 5
13 Anyone who has to drink milk is still a baby, without experience in applying the Word about righteousness. 14 But solid food is for the mature, for those whose faculties have been trained by continuous exercise to distinguish good from evil.


We are one body, but the body is in unity, different parts doing the same thing, working in tandem for the same cause. Glorify Elohim. We are told not to mix in this body the things of the world or pagan ways. This verse implies that if you partake in the ways of pagans and of Elohim you are "sharers of the demons".

17 Because there is one loaf of bread, we who are many constitute one body, since we all partake of the one loaf of bread. 18 Look at physical Isra'el: don't those who eat the sacrifices participate in the altar? 19 So, what am I saying? That food sacrificed to idols has any significance in itself? or that an idol has significance in itself? 20 No, what I am saying is that the things which pagans sacrifice, they sacrifice not to God but to demons; and I don't want you to become sharers of the demons! 21 You can't drink both a cup of the Lord and a cup of demons, you can't partake in both a meal of the Lord and a meal of demons. 22 Or are we trying to make the Lord jealous? We aren't stronger than he is, are we?


So I have to disagree with the logic of leading new talmidim to Churches. No Church i've ever seen or heard of is free from these trappings. I just see those who want to condone them, say it's o.k., when clearly Adonai says it is not.
 
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Shimshon

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JJB said:
What trappings are these?


Mixing of good and evil, Torah and mans wisdom, Jewish and Hellenistic theology, saying one thing but doing another.

JJB said:
Is it Easter?

This would be one prime example as is Christmas.
JJB said:
What pagan rites do you see or perceive that take place in churches?

Pagan=worldy, in common usage it ment "country men" those not in the city. The unlearned, the barbarian. The worldly, those following other gods.


as far as the rest, I do not believe I have a right to speak of these things in here. I do not want to breach the rules nor do I want to pay a fine at the moment for speaking my heart. This is a Christian forum and I am aware I am in the minority here.

Maybe if you would search the previous posts made on "easter, christmas, holidays," in this MJ forum you can glean some meat from it.

In short, it's the mixture of worldy ways with what Churches think is the Truth. eg. once saved always saved, sinner saved by grace, modern church is ordained by Elohim, KJV is a divinely written book, tithing, buildings, money, not feeding the sheep, ..............look at the sins of Yisrael and you will see a striking similarity, read the prophets and you will see organized religion fit right in with the condemned, not the righteous.

My issue with this is not to condemn nor to hate, but to speak the Truth, walk the straight path in a crooked perverse world, I will not be silent till Elohim is glorified by his creation, till his will is done. I will not stop glorifying him. No matter who calls me what or persecutes me in any way. Love is not tolerance, it is usually shown in sacrifice. I sacrifice my "good standing" with beni when I discipline him. He doesn't like me that much when I discipline him. But I sacrifce my position with him in order to teach him. I do not let him be and pray Elohim will do something about it. Adonai says to me, "I have given him YOU, THAT is what I did about it you fool, now GIVE YOURSELF TO HIM." Even if he thinks your a big ole meany. Love is kind, patient, long suffering, not proud, not boastful, ......Love seeks to give all you have so that another might be blessed. I love all mankind because Elohim created us. His will is that we give him glory. That we love him. If we love him we follow his commandments. It dosn't say he will love us anyway though we don't.

b,shalom v,ahavah
Shimshon
 
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mjterry87

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shimshon said:
Mixing of good and evil, Torah and mans wisdom, Jewish and Hellenistic theology, saying one thing but doing another.



This would be one prime example as is Christmas.


Pagan=worldy, in common usage it ment "country men" those not in the city. The unlearned, the barbarian. The worldly, those following other gods.


as far as the rest, I do not believe I have a right to speak of these things in here. I do not want to breach the rules nor do I want to pay a fine at the moment for speaking my heart. This is a Christian forum and I am aware I am in the minority here.

Maybe if you would search the previous posts made on "easter, christmas, holidays," in this MJ forum you can glean some meat from it.

In short, it's the mixture of worldy ways with what Churches think is the Truth. eg. once saved always saved, sinner saved by grace, modern church is ordained by Elohim, KJV is a divinely written book, tithing, buildings, money, not feeding the sheep, ..............look at the sins of Yisrael and you will see a striking similarity, read the prophets and you will see organized religion fit right in with the condemned, not the righteous.

My issue with this is not to condemn nor to hate, but to speak the Truth, walk the straight path in a crooked perverse world, I will not be silent till Elohim is glorified by his creation, till his will is done. I will not stop glorifying him. No matter who calls me what or persecutes me in any way. Love is not tolerance, it is usually shown in sacrifice. I sacrifice my "good standing" with beni when I discipline him. He doesn't like me that much when I discipline him. But I sacrifce my position with him in order to teach him. I do not let him be and pray Elohim will do something about it. Adonai says to me, "I have given him YOU, THAT is what I did about it you fool, now GIVE YOURSELF TO HIM." Even if he thinks your a big ole meany. Love is kind, patient, long suffering, not proud, not boastful, ......Love seeks to give all you have so that another might be blessed. I love all mankind because Elohim created us. His will is that we give him glory. That we love him. If we love him we follow his commandments. It dosn't say he will love us anyway though we don't.

b,shalom v,ahavah
Shimshon

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Mixing of good and evil, Torah and mans wisdom, Jewish and Hellenistic theology, saying one thing but doing another.
Shimshon, you have spoken well...and it will needed to be said over and over again. Sins must be pointed out as sins. Anything that separates us from God need to be shown so that we may repent of the dross that has held us afar from Hashem.

You have said it well....Those things that are held dear, are the hardest to let go of, even for Christ. Yeshua wants us to surrender it all. When He said all, we didn't realize that it meant those rituals, understanding, and doctrines that we thought brought us to Him, were the very things that keep us from Him. We need to be told over and over again in many ways and from many angles, so that we may be rid of the dross of this world, and have accepted God's kingdom as He set it up for us, which He says is perfect.
 
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