Scripturally, what's wrong with polygamy?
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Tyreth and Debi, I think y'all could go round and round on this topic without a definate result. Just one of those things I guess.
Iamsharp......I agree....I wouldn't want to share my husband with another "wife" either. Marriage is a bond between 2 not 3 or more. I don't see why a man would want more than 1 wife, as I think it would be difficult to be in a sharing, loving relationship with more than one woman. Most men have difficulty with living with just one woman, let alone more!
But that's just my thought on this.
Iamsharp......I agree....I wouldn't want to share my husband with another "wife" either. Marriage is a bond between 2 not 3 or more. I don't see why a man would want more than 1 wife, as I think it would be difficult to be in a sharing, loving relationship with more than one woman. Most men have difficulty with living with just one woman, let alone more!
But that's just my thought on this.
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You are so right!!Fiat said:Tyreth and Debi, I think y'all could go round and round on this topic without a definate result. Just one of those things I guess.
Iamsharp......I agree....I wouldn't want to share my husband with another "wife" either. Marriage is a bond between 2 not 3 or more. I don't see why a man would want more than 1 wife, as I think it would be difficult to be in a sharing, loving relationship with more than one woman. Most men have difficulty with living with just one woman, let alone more!
But it is interesting to see how they justify polygamy. It truly amazes me that they look for justification of the flesh. I agree, men have a hard enough time with one woman....
Debi
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Christy,imasharp said:
Glad to see other woman have spoken!!! And I don't think you speak for a small minority, but a hugh majority!!!
Debi
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Debi, it's so amusing to watch you as you think you've made an amazing point.
Can you summarise for me your case again that explains clearly that David, Solomon, Abraham, Gideon, Jacob and others were sinning when they took more than one wife? To what Scripture do you point to show that they were wrong?
I agree we could go around in circles, but I'm not bored yet, so I don't mind
You are so right!!
Can you summarise for me your case again that explains clearly that David, Solomon, Abraham, Gideon, Jacob and others were sinning when they took more than one wife? To what Scripture do you point to show that they were wrong?
I agree we could go around in circles, but I'm not bored yet, so I don't mind
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If there are things in my post inside the quotes you have not said could you please point them out to me?tyreth said:
Like I said I am not a shcolar, but the verse did say that Sarah gave her maidservent. Different than God giving him another. Sarah made the decision and not God. BTW, thanx for the history lesson...all the lineage confuses me sometimestyreth said:
Oktyreth said:
The greek word mia means one or by inferal first and by futher inferal...."a"? Sounds like decay of the language to me, but allright "a" still means singular...tyreth said:
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In english, if I say "do you have a dog", I am not asking about the number of dogs so much as I am about you posessing one or more dogs.
The difference is critical. If we translate it as an indication of number, "husband of one wife", then Paul is saying something purely about the number of wives a man has. If we translate it as an indefinite article, then Paul is saying something not about how many wives he has so much as him being married at all. Just like the question above, when asking about dogs, I'm more interested in whether you have a dog at all, not so much the number of dogs.
And this is perfectly within the realms of what we expect - because Paul would have written his recommendations from the perspective of what's common - unruly kids, unmarried men, etc. All the things in that list might happen to many people - yet polygyny is the only one that was incredibly rare.
The difference is critical. If we translate it as an indication of number, "husband of one wife", then Paul is saying something purely about the number of wives a man has. If we translate it as an indefinite article, then Paul is saying something not about how many wives he has so much as him being married at all. Just like the question above, when asking about dogs, I'm more interested in whether you have a dog at all, not so much the number of dogs.
And this is perfectly within the realms of what we expect - because Paul would have written his recommendations from the perspective of what's common - unruly kids, unmarried men, etc. All the things in that list might happen to many people - yet polygyny is the only one that was incredibly rare.
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Tyreth, Abraham did not take a 2nd wife. Sarah gave her maidservant to Abraham to fulfill God's promise. No where does the scripture tell us that Abraham took her as his wife. He did not love her, did not want her, did not marry her. His only "sin" was his disbelief in what God promised him and Sarah.tyreth said:Debi, it's so amusing to watch you as you think you've made an amazing point.
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Can you summarise for me your case again that explains clearly that David, Solomon, Abraham, Gideon, Jacob and others were sinning when they took more than one wife? To what Scripture do you point to show that they were wrong?
I agree we could go around in circles, but I'm not bored yet, so I don't mind
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Tyreth, after doing a search, I found that you are not alone in your thinking of Abraham and Sarah:
3. The Old Testament and Polygamy: The complications introduced into morals by polygamy are not often considered. But the Bible sets them forth in plainness. The marriage of Abraham and Sarah seems to have been an original love match, and even to have preserved something of that character through life. Still we find Sarah under the influence of polygamous ideas, presenting Abraham with a concubine. Yet afterward, when she herself had a son, she induced Abraham to drive out into the wilderness this concubine and her son. Now Abraham was humane and kind, and it is said "The thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight" (Genesis 21:11). But he was in the toils of polygamy, and it brought him pain and retribution. A Divine direction may be hard to bear.
http://www.searchgodsword.org/enc/isb/view.cgi?number=T7014
Althought I do not necessarily agree that this was a truly polygamy marriage because Sarah was the one who cast the maidservant out to the desert (due to jealousy and possibly a raging PMS moment) and not Abraham.
1) If this was a polygamy marriage Sarah would not have been "permitted" to cast her away as the man is in total control of polygamy marriages
2) Sarah gave the maidservant as a way to fulfill God's promise
3) Abraham did not want the maidservant but only did so to satisfy Sarah
3. The Old Testament and Polygamy: The complications introduced into morals by polygamy are not often considered. But the Bible sets them forth in plainness. The marriage of Abraham and Sarah seems to have been an original love match, and even to have preserved something of that character through life. Still we find Sarah under the influence of polygamous ideas, presenting Abraham with a concubine. Yet afterward, when she herself had a son, she induced Abraham to drive out into the wilderness this concubine and her son. Now Abraham was humane and kind, and it is said "The thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight" (Genesis 21:11). But he was in the toils of polygamy, and it brought him pain and retribution. A Divine direction may be hard to bear.
http://www.searchgodsword.org/enc/isb/view.cgi?number=T7014
Althought I do not necessarily agree that this was a truly polygamy marriage because Sarah was the one who cast the maidservant out to the desert (due to jealousy and possibly a raging PMS moment) and not Abraham.
1) If this was a polygamy marriage Sarah would not have been "permitted" to cast her away as the man is in total control of polygamy marriages
2) Sarah gave the maidservant as a way to fulfill God's promise
3) Abraham did not want the maidservant but only did so to satisfy Sarah
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It says that Sarah gave her maidservant to Abraham to be his wife - Genesis 16:3. Now it is important to note in vs 5 that the trouble from Sarah was because her maid despised Sarah - it seems because she had been able to give Abraham a child, so she elevated herself above Sarah.Fiat said:
Now that is not a problem of polygyny, but of the people involved - which I'll comment on shortly.
I believe that to become a wife, Abraham did all that was necessary. What more did he need? If you read 1 Corinthians 6:16 - 'Or do you not know that he who is joined to a harlot is one body with her? For "the two," He says, "shall become one flesh.' Therefore the act of sex is sufficient to bind two together as one flesh.
Abraham gave Sarah permission to cast her away - Genesis 16:6
No disagreement with this.
That is not something the Scripture tells us either way - it is entirely possible that Abraham had desired the maidservant for a long time before. It may be that he did not want her and just tried to satisfy Sarah. It may be that he genuinely thought it was the only way for God's promise to come true.
On the topic of troubles in polygyny, I find it frivolous to mention the difficulties. There are difficulties in most marriages, monogamous and polygynous. Some polygynous marriages work, some don't. Same for monogamous. So an appeal to the difficulties of polygyny in the bible fails on two grounds:
1. You are saying that polygyny *always* produces troubles, and therefore it is wrong. Because if there's ever an exception, then polygyny is not the cause.
2. Gideon is at least one pious man who had multiple wives, but no mention of any troubles for.
It's really not a useful position. Sure there were troubles - so what? Are you going to tell me that any man who marries one woman only is in for a smooth ride?
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Tyreth, I disagree, let's look at Gen 16:6 where Abraham gives Sarah permission to cast Hagar.tyreth said:
KJV: "Behold, thy maid is in thy hand; do to her as it pleath thee."...
NIV: "YOUR servant is in your hands", Abram said, "Do with her whatever you think best".
NLT: "Since she is your servant, you may deal with her as you see fit."
NAS: "Behold your maid is in your power; do to her what is good in your sight".
Tyreth, clearly here Abraham states that Hagar is Sarah's servant only and not his wife. He tells Sarah to do as she pleases with Hagar since it is her servant. Does this sound like words of a man regarding any of his wives?
Agreed, the scriptures do not clearly give us any indication about whether Abraham desired Hagar prior to Sarah giving her to him. However, the scriptures clearly indicate that Abraham loved Sarah and was a devoted husband to her. So I find it doubtful that he desired Hagar at all. Sarah gave Hagar to Abram as a substitute, a common practice in that time. A married woman who could not have children was shamd by her peers and was often required to give a female servant to her husband in order to produce heirs. The children born to the servant woman were considered the children of the wife. Abram was acting in line with the custom of the day. (I think your technically hanging on a limb here).
I'm not stating here that my reasons of supporting a monogamous marriage versus a polygynous marriage. But clearly polygynous marriages were biblical but for a purpose. The purpose was for men to reproduce. I can not see any other reason. I can see more troubles in a polygynous marriage versus that of one wife. Jealous, rivals, etc.....would be a result in such marriage. Do you truly think that this would be of God? God gave marriage as a gift. Marriage was not just for convenience nor was it brought about by any culture, it was insittutded by God and has 3 basic aspects (1) the man leaves his parents and in a public act promises himself to his wife (not wives) (2) the man and woman (not women) are joined together by taking respnsibility for each other's welfare and by loving the mate above all others; (3) the two become one flesh in the intimiacy and commitment of sexual union that is reserved for marriage. IT IS impossible for a man to fulfill what God intended for marriage by being married to several woman. A man can not possibily fulfill ALL of these women's emotional, spiritual and individual needs.
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Fiat said:
I can tell that the author of this article you provided does not know what he is talking about. I will demonstrate this here.
The marriage relationship between Abraham and Sarah is not an ideal in today's world. How many of you would marry your half sister?
Please pardon my bad grammar, but this calls for some real description. This is nothing but a bunch of shuck and jive. We have Gen. 16:3 as an authority to show that the author is way off base. Read the record where it says, "And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram "to be his wife."
More shuck and jive nonsense. If polygyny were all that disagreeable to Abraham, then why did he marry two more wives AFTER Sarah died, and also had several concubines? Let us look at Gen. 21:10-12 and see just what was going on IN CONTEXT:
Gen 21:10 Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.
Gen 21:11 And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son. (NOT because of polygyny itself, but because of Ishmael, his SON.)
Gen 21:12 And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Now you are in error. I have quoted above in verse 12 the words of the Lord to Abraham for HIM to cast Hagar out, not Sarah. Sarah just so happend to want something that was in line with the will of the Lord for the sake of the calling.
Yes, which was an active denial that God would fulfill His promise.
The record does not reflect such thinking. I am sometimes amazed at how much someone can know about the thinking of a man he has never met.
Dr. Don Dean
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Fiat said:Sorry Tyreth, I think I killed your thread
S'ok
After a while it stopped for a few months until it was woken again just recently. I've been doing a lot of reading and thinking about this topic since I started. So for me the benefit of this thread is now mainly for others, not myself.
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This is true. It is also true that the Lord gave to David at least two of his already plural wives, so the Lord's own actions give us a good indication that He had no problem with a man having plural wives.water_ripple said:
Dr. Don Dean
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The question you may want to ask is: When did monogamy become law? The answer to that was over a period of years around the year 1034. That's when it became law. Another question is why?
paul speaks of the restrictions on marriage in...
1 Timothy 4-3. they forbid marriage
It is not against the law for man to have many wives. And if something should be legal certainly, this is it, because if the law doesn't make it illegal, then men should not think of polygamy as illegal, but as normal.
What is abnormal is monogamy. That's what's abnormal.
paul speaks of the restrictions on marriage in...
1 Timothy 4-3. they forbid marriage
It is not against the law for man to have many wives. And if something should be legal certainly, this is it, because if the law doesn't make it illegal, then men should not think of polygamy as illegal, but as normal.
What is abnormal is monogamy. That's what's abnormal.
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Surely it's not against the law for man to have two wives:
Deuteronomy 21:15. `If a man has two wives, one loved and the other unloved, and the loved one and the unloved both bear him children, and if the first-born son is of the unloved wife...
Deuteronomy 21:15. `If a man has two wives, one loved and the other unloved, and the loved one and the unloved both bear him children, and if the first-born son is of the unloved wife...
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Actually, it is difficult to present a case for polygamy being biblically unacceptable. After all, on the very most basic level, one has the example of how God built the bloodlines of His chosen people with the twelve sons of four women by one man. To say that polygamy is not something God sanctions would be the same as saying that God would use unrighteous means to acheive a righteous end. Now...if you want to discuss the ramifications of men lusting after more wives in this time, that is a whole nuther thread........but strictly scripturally?...no prohibition. I would however reiterate the words of the Apostle Paul....All things are legal, but not all things are profitable.(I freely admit to paraphrase due to poor memory and short time but I think the point is clear)
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