aforchrist
yeah yeah sure. great excuse. didnt you say this was your ministry?
romans828
i heard what you called truth, i told you exactly why i do not agree. if i am in anyway wrong, then show me, as you should be able too.
youve posted absolutly nothing that proves me wrong. you post scripture, yes, i agree with all scripture.
but does it mean what you say it means? i dont think so. does that make me one who runs from truth? absolutely not, just diffrent.
keep talking to me, tell me why, i am trying to think through this as logicly as i can.
my foundations are scriptures, just as yours are.
jrmorganjr
i understand that jesus said that.
but at the same time, you must consider scriptures like HEBREWS 10.25-30
which talkes of sanctified men going back and trodding jesus underfoot even despite the grace of god and being in danger of HELL agian.
HEBREWS 6.4-6
which speaks of saved men who have deeply matured in god, yet going back on god and it says those cant even be renewed!
which means, you cant get them to come back to god. again, this is the choice of the person, nothing else. they simply wont decide to come back.
in many places we read of names being REMOVED FROM THE BOOK OF LIFE. in BOTH testaments.
i could go on and on.
so, jesus said you cant be pulled away, but we read over and over of men who SOMEHOW LOST IT, WENT ASTRAY, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT.
how does it fit together?
my conclusion is that NO YOU CANT BE PULLED OUT, BUT YOU CAN TROD JESUS UNDERFOOT YOURSELF. which is not being PULLED AWAY.
but you simply leaving and doing it all on your own accord.
i think a clear example is adam, he was made perfect, he knew god personally, and many other great things. yet, he had the choice to throw it all away. as i believe we do, and always will.
ALL OF YOU ANSWER ME THIS
DO I HAVE THE CHOICE TO WILLINGLY, OF MY OWN ACCORD, CAST AWAY MY SALVATION?
if not, show me why not.
THATS WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT, APOSTACY, A PERSON WILLINGLY SAYING "JESUS I DONT WANT YOU IN MY LIFE ANYMORE, GET OUT!"
that is why i believe losing it is always an option.
not becuase you must work to keep it, or that it is hard to keep it at all.
i dont disagree simply becuase i dont want to, but that i simply do not see anything in scripture that means a person cant go back on god and willingly return to a hell bound life by their own choice.
i see scripture that clearly says men have done this, thus somehow it must be possible, i say its by our own choice. it must be by our choice becuase you are all correct in most of what you say, when you speak of jesus keeping you, preserving you, doing it all for you.
yet, somehow, the men im speaking of did end up in a state of godlessness AGAIN.
so, i say its our choice.
do you see how im really trying to use scripture? i really am! i dont simply want to believe this, but it is the only thing i see that truely harmonises with the entire bible.
i understand you have scriptures and reasons to believe what you do, but you seem to forget the rest of the bible, or just certain parts.
you have a half truth.
yeah yeah sure. great excuse. didnt you say this was your ministry?
romans828
i heard what you called truth, i told you exactly why i do not agree. if i am in anyway wrong, then show me, as you should be able too.
youve posted absolutly nothing that proves me wrong. you post scripture, yes, i agree with all scripture.
but does it mean what you say it means? i dont think so. does that make me one who runs from truth? absolutely not, just diffrent.
keep talking to me, tell me why, i am trying to think through this as logicly as i can.
my foundations are scriptures, just as yours are.
jrmorganjr
i understand that jesus said that.
but at the same time, you must consider scriptures like HEBREWS 10.25-30
which talkes of sanctified men going back and trodding jesus underfoot even despite the grace of god and being in danger of HELL agian.
HEBREWS 6.4-6
which speaks of saved men who have deeply matured in god, yet going back on god and it says those cant even be renewed!
which means, you cant get them to come back to god. again, this is the choice of the person, nothing else. they simply wont decide to come back.
in many places we read of names being REMOVED FROM THE BOOK OF LIFE. in BOTH testaments.
i could go on and on.
so, jesus said you cant be pulled away, but we read over and over of men who SOMEHOW LOST IT, WENT ASTRAY, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT.
how does it fit together?
my conclusion is that NO YOU CANT BE PULLED OUT, BUT YOU CAN TROD JESUS UNDERFOOT YOURSELF. which is not being PULLED AWAY.
but you simply leaving and doing it all on your own accord.
i think a clear example is adam, he was made perfect, he knew god personally, and many other great things. yet, he had the choice to throw it all away. as i believe we do, and always will.
ALL OF YOU ANSWER ME THIS
DO I HAVE THE CHOICE TO WILLINGLY, OF MY OWN ACCORD, CAST AWAY MY SALVATION?
if not, show me why not.
THATS WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT, APOSTACY, A PERSON WILLINGLY SAYING "JESUS I DONT WANT YOU IN MY LIFE ANYMORE, GET OUT!"
that is why i believe losing it is always an option.
not becuase you must work to keep it, or that it is hard to keep it at all.
i dont disagree simply becuase i dont want to, but that i simply do not see anything in scripture that means a person cant go back on god and willingly return to a hell bound life by their own choice.
i see scripture that clearly says men have done this, thus somehow it must be possible, i say its by our own choice. it must be by our choice becuase you are all correct in most of what you say, when you speak of jesus keeping you, preserving you, doing it all for you.
yet, somehow, the men im speaking of did end up in a state of godlessness AGAIN.
so, i say its our choice.
do you see how im really trying to use scripture? i really am! i dont simply want to believe this, but it is the only thing i see that truely harmonises with the entire bible.
i understand you have scriptures and reasons to believe what you do, but you seem to forget the rest of the bible, or just certain parts.
you have a half truth.
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