Shadowseldil, thankyou for taking the time to reply to my post, I have a few points if I may.
Verses stating God didn't want sacrifice:
Psalm 40:6
Psalm 51:16
Isaiah 1:11
Isaiah 1:16: wash, make yourselves cleam. Take your wrongdoing out of my sight. Cease doing evil. Learn to do good, search for justice, disipline the violent, be just to the orphan, plead for the widow.
Isaiah 7:21-28
Hosesa 8:13 They offer sacrifices to me because they are those who eat the meat, but Yahweh does not accept their sacrifices, for He is mindful of their sin and remembers their wickedness
Hosea 6:6 Mercy is what pleases me, not sacrifice
So Jesus came to do what?
Why does the bible continuously strive for people to turn away from their sinful lives and try to be righteous? Why all Paul's letters to the church teaching them about how to live more righteous lives? Why did Jesus say (in Matthew 25:31-46) that at the end of time he will separate the goats (those that did what was wrong) from the sheep (those who did what was right)? (notice that he didn't say he'd separate those that believe he existed from those that didn't!).
The verses you quoted obviously can't be taken the way you and many other christians have taken them because they clearly contradict most of the bible.
It would seem then that they may have meant something else or been mistranslated or (God forbid) been tampered with. After all, Paul commanded that no woman should speak in church for were inferior to men (1 Timothy 2:11-15, 1 Corinthians 14:34-36 and 1 Corinthians 11:2-16)! And Jesus said cut off your right hand if it causes you to sin!
We must read verses in context with the rest of what the bible's saying and allow the spirit of God (and common sense) as a guide.
I think I know the answers to all my questions (but I probably can't say here what I believe). I wanted to hear what christians had to say about them. It's good for christians to try and answer challenging questions as it is good practice for witnessing in the world.
God bless.
That's what the bible makes it out to be, people went through a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins (repentence means 'to turn around' from their sins, and it's obvious what forgiveness means) and then John told them to live good lives to keep in with their repentance. Could it not be any clearer?Shadowseldil said:Sacrifices and baptism do not bring forgiveness from sin.
So what a waste of time that was then!Shadowseldil said:John himself said that his baptism was nothing.
Erm... no one knew about Jesus then!! Yes there was indeed no excuse for not believing in God for he reveals himself in nature (as mentioned in an earlier christian post). So that's all people had to do it seems, also God kept urging people to repent (turn away) from their sinful life and he would forgive them. Why wouldn't he, he's a just loving God, makes sense.Shadowseldil said:When did god apply this rule (to believe in Jesus to be saved)? Easy, it was at the very moment that Adam sinned.
Verses stating God didn't want sacrifice:
Psalm 40:6
Psalm 51:16
Isaiah 1:11
Isaiah 1:16: wash, make yourselves cleam. Take your wrongdoing out of my sight. Cease doing evil. Learn to do good, search for justice, disipline the violent, be just to the orphan, plead for the widow.
Isaiah 7:21-28
Hosesa 8:13 They offer sacrifices to me because they are those who eat the meat, but Yahweh does not accept their sacrifices, for He is mindful of their sin and remembers their wickedness
Hosea 6:6 Mercy is what pleases me, not sacrifice
So Jesus came to do what?
Something's wrong here.. these verses seem to imply that all God wants is faith and that trying to do what is right is meaningless. After all God's grace suposedly covers any sins. This is one of the biggest lies that stains the church today and is a very dangerous thing to believe. According to this, a christian can just go and do whatever sin they like, it doesn't matter. It is an excuse for laziness/complacency in the church where people just don't care whether they are leading righteous lives or not - they're going to heaven anyway so what does it matter!Shadowseldil said:how was Abraham saved? By sacrifices? By circumcision? No, it was by faith. Salvation has always been by faith in God for salvation. "For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. "
Why does the bible continuously strive for people to turn away from their sinful lives and try to be righteous? Why all Paul's letters to the church teaching them about how to live more righteous lives? Why did Jesus say (in Matthew 25:31-46) that at the end of time he will separate the goats (those that did what was wrong) from the sheep (those who did what was right)? (notice that he didn't say he'd separate those that believe he existed from those that didn't!).
The verses you quoted obviously can't be taken the way you and many other christians have taken them because they clearly contradict most of the bible.
It would seem then that they may have meant something else or been mistranslated or (God forbid) been tampered with. After all, Paul commanded that no woman should speak in church for were inferior to men (1 Timothy 2:11-15, 1 Corinthians 14:34-36 and 1 Corinthians 11:2-16)! And Jesus said cut off your right hand if it causes you to sin!
We must read verses in context with the rest of what the bible's saying and allow the spirit of God (and common sense) as a guide.
I think I know the answers to all my questions (but I probably can't say here what I believe). I wanted to hear what christians had to say about them. It's good for christians to try and answer challenging questions as it is good practice for witnessing in the world.
God bless.
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