Futurism is Starting to go down Big Time

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CrownCaster

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Hidden Manna said:
Futurist seem be believe all preterist are nuts. ”
Okay, this is our last interaction but I had to respond. I have never said anything that would mean your view is nuts. I still see preterists as the Body of Christ and do not care if you see this issue the same way I do. I only care that you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior. If that is established then I say lets now take the Message to the world and not be concerned about our different views of peripheral subjects. For some reason though, you feel you are so right that you need to attack those who are already saved. I am sure Jesus just loves to see that.
 
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Justme

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Hi unbound,

Your concern is that the earth and life upon it goes on as it always has. There appears to be no improvement in the lifestyle we face.

I guess it's actually funny how this works. In all the times I've read the bible I never once got the impression that this life on earth would ever become the utopia. That utopia is found in the heavenly existance that follows this earthly life.
I felt the life lessons in the bible should improve the overall character of mankind over time and the learning process of the passage of time should improve the life of mankind by their own doing.

I consider the life of mankind to have improved significantly over the centuries and would think that it will continue to. I just don't see this the same at all.

Example:
Just today I heard about a pregnant woman who was strangled to death by another woman, and her baby was cut out of her and abducted. No how do we compare this to the above verses? It just doesnt seem to fit in too well, does it?
This is a horrific and sad thing, there is no doubt and things like this happen. Aircraft sometimes crash, diseases sometime reach an epidemic, I would say such things will always happen here on earth, but we work toward improvement all the time. It is a fact of natural life that population corrections must take place. If they don't, mankind will disappear as they outgrow their habitat, just like any other animal would.

So you see, in the end, when the wheat is seperated from the tares, the tares will be burnt, and there will be no more strife or evil. Such is a long way from what we have in this world today.
I agree, but I think that is now available as the heavenly reward. That is the end as I see it.

Justme
 
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Imblessed

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Can I just jump in here and tell everyone to calm down? I'm a bit distressed that the preterists and futurists have to start fighting. I would hope that we could discuss our differences with each others' views in a more adult manner. Name calling will get us nowhere.

So, everyone, STOP! Take a deep breathe, count to 10(or 20, or 30)...and realize that this bickering will get us nowhere.


thank you.....

in love,
windi
 
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Hidden Manna

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CrownCaster said:
Okay, this is our last interaction but I had to respond. I have never said anything that would mean your view is nuts. I still see preterists as the Body of Christ and do not care if you see this issue the same way I do. I only care that you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior. If that is established then I say lets now take the Message to the world and not be concerned about our different views of peripheral subjects. For some reason though, you feel you are so right that you need to attack those who are already saved. I am sure Jesus just loves to see that.

Why do you accuse me of attacking those who are "saved". I'm not attacking I'm tring the rescue people from false waiting time of scriptural fullfillment. What good would I be doing preaching a message that told people to get saved and then tell them that they will have to wait to be with Jesus and wait to enter into His Kingdom when they can do so right now?
 
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Hidden Manna said:
What good would I be doing preaching a message that told people to get saved and then tell them that they will have to wait to be with Jesus and wait to enter into His Kingdom when they can do so right now?
As a futurist, I affirm that the believer who dies is with the Lord and awaits a resurrection body.

I wonder if you really understand futurism. If you do, why are you attributing to futurists view that they do not hold?

~ NEHI (If Satan is now bound, how do you explain Windows Me ???)
 
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Hidden Manna

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CrownCaster said:
Okay, this is our last interaction but I had to respond. I have never said anything that would mean your view is nuts. I still see preterists as the Body of Christ and do not care if you see this issue the same way I do. I only care that you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior. If that is established then I say lets now take the Message to the world and not be concerned about our different views of peripheral subjects. For some reason though, you feel you are so right that you need to attack those who are already saved. I am sure Jesus just loves to see that.

Quote:Originally Posted by: CrownCaster
And that is division. Who are you to say that because I do not believe in your interpretation that I am blind and captive? I am saved regardless if I hold to your view of this subject or not and do not think that Christ would like you calling His Body blind! No wonder the cultists see division in the Body. It is things like this.

Okay Crowncaster, I can now see the problem. You are assuming that I have been accusing you personally when I was just speaking in general to people who hold a futuristic view. I failed to see this and responded back as if you were attacking me. Other then that I can see your attitude would have been alright.

I'm sorry for the misunderstanding and I am willing to let it go as if never done. I hope you can do the same and we can get on with sharing our views in an Christ like manner.

BTW Jesus called those who could see blind and those who could hear deaf. The same conditions are true today, I say that in general not personally attacking anyone. I was a futurist for 30 years and was blind and deaf until I was at the end of seeking the true after being burned by SDAism for 10 years and really wanted to know what was the truth. I have found it at last and at times really want to share it. I do not want anyone who disagrees to be converted. I would rather see them wait in false hope as a reward for rejecting the truth.
 
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Hidden Manna

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Nehi said:
As a futurist, I affirm that the believer who dies is with the Lord and awaits a resurrection body.

I wonder if you really understand futurism. If you do, why are you attributing to futurists view that they do not hold?

~ NEHI (If Satan is now bound, how do you explain Windows Me ???)

this is odd, if a believer dies they go to be with the Lord but, the dead are not raised from the dead according to futuristic view until Jesus comes and then His Kingdom starts.

So you are now saying that the dead are with the lord but they have to wait for a body or Kingdom to live in.

I guess you are right I never could understand or figure out what futurism is all about. I guess I really do not need to know, because after physical death and with the Lord we will not need to know what was false. :scratch:
 
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Hidden Manna

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The reason why all preterist believe scripture has been fulfilled is because we believe Jesus know what he was talking about when he said (all these things would happen in that generation ) Matthew 24:34
We believe The “Key” that Unlocks scripture is to believe what Jesus and his disciples have said in scripture and not the traditional teaching of men today. Please don’t get mad when I say that. I am not saying you guys don’t believe Jesus.
What I am saying is Preterist don’t NOT believe the traditional teach about Christ’s return in the church today. And I will show you why as we go along.
Prediction after predictions of Christ’s return in futurist books into our future has failed to materialize. One such book was (the late grear planet earth).
And the secular media (who are always looking for an excuse to call Jesus a false prophet) are further discrediting Christianity because of the futurist view.
These people know the Bible batter then most Christians do today and they know Jesus said he would return in that generation. So they use that statement to try to discredit Jesus and his disciples and show that Jesus must be a false prophet. Notice what God said about any prophet who said he was speaking in Him name.
And if you say in your heart, “How shall we know the word which the LORD has not spoken?’ (when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD) , if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him. (Deuteronomy 18:21-22)
These are not the words or opinions of any preterist this is inspired writ, i.e., God’s opinion. If a prophet said he was speaking in the name of God and made a (time statement) about something that thing had to come to pass within that (stated time frame) or that prophet was not speaking for God.
Most Christians today don’t know this Statement of God is in their Bible but the one’s who are calling Jesus a false prophet do know it is in there as you will soon see.
Jesus was that prophet here that God is talking about (see Acts 3:22-25)
Also notice here that Paul said that who ever did not hear the (words of Jesus the Prophet) He would utterly destroy from among the people. In other words the Jews verse 23. He did destroy them in A.D. 70.
Now as I was saying there are some who know these scripture and use them because of the futurist view to try to show Jesus is a false prophet. See the link below.
http://members.aol.com/just1crzyju/falseprophet.htm
This is just one of many, many, many web sites out there. And the secular world also uses these same things to discredit Christianity. I wish you could all go with me sometime when I go to other places to teach so you can hear what I am saying for yourself.
Until now no one has been able to address these kind of false statements against Christ and Christianity. Preterist can now show Biblically how these scriptures were fulfilled. The futurist view has failed to do that because of that view. You cannot defend Christianity with a futurist view when God said if a prophet speaks in His name the time statement must came to pass on time.
Only showing them how Scripture has been fulfilled can do that. Jesus was not a false prophet and he knows what he was talking about. This is just one of the things the preterist view is all about.
We can now show from scripture and history that Jesus and his disciples know what they were talking about when they said he would return soon.
And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light. (Romans 13:11-12) Notice here that Paul says the day was at hand then.
You also be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand. (James 5:8) Notice that James also said that Jesus was at hand then. Could anything be clearer, simpler, or more straight forward then Paul’s and Jemes’s statement here?
I can go on and on with scripture to show (they believed Jesus was returning in their lifetime as Jesus promised).
These saints know what they were talking about and they were not false prophets nor were any of them on any kind of drugs. God said over and over again there would be no more prolonged prophecy.
(Ezekiel 12:22-28) Son of man, what is that proverb that ye have in the land of Israel, saying, The days are prolonged, and every vision faileth? {23} Tell them therefore, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will make this proverb to cease, and they shall no more use it as a proverb in Israel; but say unto them, The days are at hand, and the effect of every vision. {24} For there shall be no more any vain vision nor flattering divination within the house of Israel. {25} For I am the LORD: I will speak, and the word that I shall speak shall come to pass; it shall be no more prolonged: for in your days, O rebellious house, will I say the word, and will perform it, saith the Lord GOD. {26} Again the word of the LORD came to me, saying, {27} Son of man, behold, they of the house of Israel say, The vision that he seeth is for many days to come, and he prophesieth of the times that are far off. {28} Therefore say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; There shall none of my words be prolonged any more, but the word which I have spoken shall be done, saith the Lord GOD.
I believe God know what he was talking about when he said there would be NO MORE PROLONGED prophecy in Israel.
I also believe the disciples who know these scripture believed God when he said he would no longer PROLONGED prophecy in Israel. I believe they believe as God said the (day was at hand).
In short we believe what the Bible says and NOT what the church says the Bible says.
We don’t believe what (We all have been taught in the church) about a future coming of Christ because we believe it goes against the clear teaching of Jesus and the disciples in scripture.


The key to understanding any passage of Scripture has always been a good grasp of language, culture, and historical setting in which Scripture was ORIGINALLY written.

The disciples saw one short fulfillment period with two phases to it: a suffering humiliation phase and a victorious consummation phase. Were did they get that idea?

Does the Old Testament predict Christ Return? Any one who knows their Bible will answer a quicke "yes" to the question without realizing the implications.

A good book of the Bible that both Jews and Christians accept as highly messianic is the book of Isaiah. It should become apparent very quickly that Isaiah did not know of any "second coming."

For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance. The year of recompense for the cause of Zion. (Isaiah 34:8)

The Spirit of the Lord God is upon Me. Because the Lord has anointed Me To preach good tidings to the poor He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, To proclaim liderty to the captive And the opening of the prison those who are bound. To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, And the day of veangeance of our God. (Isaiah 61:1-2)

Indeed the Lord has proclaimed to the end of the world Say to the daughter of Zion . Surely your salvation is coming Behold, His reward is with Him And His work before Him. (Isaiah 62:11)

For the day of vengeance is in My heart. And the year of My redeemed has come. (Isaiah 63:4)

These are just some of the old testament scriptures and not one distinguish between "a coming in redemption and a coming in vengeance."

This is the way the old testament Jewish prophets have always viewed it and the new testament saints hung onto their concepts. The Jews never had the concept of a second coming. That kind of language is never used by the Jewish prophets.

The language used closely connects the coming of the Lord with both salvation and vengeance (judgment) or reward. Nowhere does the OT teach a "second coming" to fulfill the rest of the things he was unable to fulfill the first time.

They saw one short fulfillment period with two phases to it; a suffering humiliation phase and a victorious consummation phase. They expected the consummation of all these things during one short fulfillment period according to God's prophets That is way Paul and James both said that the Lord was at hand (Romans 13:11; James 5:8-9)

One of the easiest things is letting the Bible speak for itself. James said Jesus was standing at the door! verse 9. If he was standing at the door it was in that generation. These is no such distinction in the old testament or New Testament Scripture between a (first coming of Christ with salvation and vengeance as clearly see by Paul and James.

Before anyone in our day and time can assign verses in the New Testament about the coming, of the Lord thousands of years they must first prove that the (Old Testament Prophets ) clearly distinguished between all these different coming of Christ.

Jesus didn't do anything that wasn't written in the Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets concerning Him. That language is another way of saying,'Holy Writ,' or as we call it today, the Old Testament.

In fact the only place in the Bible which even comes close to teaching a (second advent) is Heb. 9:28 where it says Christ will (appear a second time) .

This was using the Jewish symbolism of the High Priest at Yom Kippur when he took the blood into the holy place and then reappeared back outside the tabernacle (Temple) to announce that atonement had been accomplished.

Then Aaron lifted his hand toward the people blessed them, and came down from offering the sin offering, the burnt offering, and peace offerings. And Moses and Aaron went into the tabernacle of meeting, and came out and blessed the people, Then the glory of the Lord appeared to all the people. (see Leviticus 9:1-24)

Notice here that Israel's sins were not forgiven until Aaron the High Priest came out of the tabernacle to bless the people verses 22,23 Every Jewish Christian understood simply that the second reappearance of Christ our High Priest would be during the same age..unto salvation. so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time apart from sin, for salvation. (see Hebrews 9:27-28) "For yet a little while, And He who is coming will come and will not tarry. (see Hebrews 10:37)

The Jews never had the concept of more then one coming with two phases to it and since it was the Jews who first taught the notion of a Messiah via the Jewish prophets it seems quite reasonable to respect their inspired witting.

The early church understood this to be simply a reappearance during His one-and only advent announcing that atonement had been accomplished. (See Hebrews 9:24-28) They saw one short fulfillment period with two phases to it and this is the same way the Jews have always viewed it. (Isaiah 63:4)

Now I am not here to make anyone come over to the preterist view. I am just showing you the problems we see with the futurist view.

Beside being called a false prophet this view is also one of the reasons why the Jews don't believe Jesus is their their Messiah, since the Old Testament Jewish prophets NEVER taught a second coming of the Messiah in the first place that would accomplish redemption, and judgement, many generations away.

Notice how various will know Jewish writer express this. The Jew refused to accept the excuse that the major prophecies concerning the Messiah will only be fulfilled in a "second coming." ( He expects the Messiah to complete his mission in his first attempt.) [The Real Messiah Reprinted from Jewish Youth, June 1973 page 15.]

The full establishment of the Kingdom could not be delayed. (The Real Messiah. Reprinted from Jewish Youth, June 1973. page 15).

Since Jesus did not fulfill the most important Messianic prophecies, they expected him to return to complete this task in a "second coming." At first, Christians expected that this (second coming) would come very shortly...in their lifetime. When their prayer was not an answered they began to hope that it would come a thousand years after Jesus' death. This was the millennium or thousand years kingdom.

Finally after a thousand years passed and Jesus still had not returned, (they postponed his second coming to an indefinite time). We therefore see that the (early Christians were forced to radically alter the Jewish concept of the Messiah in order to explain Jesus failure). This compounded with the pagan influence in the (early church, gave birth to a Messianic concept totally alien to Judaism. [Pinchas Stolper, ed. pages 32, 33}


You will discover that when ever any really strong question [such as why Jesus hasn't fulfilled all Messianic prophecies]..is asked [of the Christians], the (standard answer is that it refers to the second coming). It therefore becomes extremely important to ascertain the validity of this claim. The success of the Christian claim or its failure ( rest to a very large extent on the theory of the second coming).It is clearly an answer born of desperation. [Samuel Levin. You Take Jesus, I will Take God. Los Angeles 1980. Page 15]

A vital point, totally ignored, is that the Jewish prophecy never implied two comings divided by centuries. (see Isa. 35:4-6, 40:10-11, 61:1-2, 62:11, 63:1-6, 66:6-16; Zech. 14; and Mal.4:1-6)
 
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Hidden Manna

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Promise of a Soon Coming.

Preterists like to point out that Jesus and the disciples stated that the kingdom was near and at hand. What they often ignore is that this same formula was used in the Old Testament in instances where the eventual fulfillment was a long way off.



A common response to these Biblical statements of the imminence of the kingdom in the first century is this: "Well, yes, the Bible said the kingdom was coming soon, but what you often ignore is that this same formula was used in the Old Testament in instances where the eventual fulfillment was a long way off.

Is there anything wrong with these statements? If God does not keep the WHEN part of his promises, he has not kept his promise! (Deuteronomy 18:21-22) The Bible has a standard of determining the validity of a prophet! We today need to be far more familiar with scripture.

Our point is that the Bible is not a book that used words normally meaning at hand to mean a long time! When God said something was NOT near, it really was not near! I shall fully demonstrate this below.

Here is a question to consider: if God is in the practice of saying something is imminent when in reality it may not transpire for centuries, why is there not one single Old Covenant prophecy of the kingdom that said it was "at hand?" Daniel said the kingdom would be established in the days of the Roman empire; he called it "the last days," 2:28.

In other words, God did not allow his prophets to say the kingdom was at hand until it was REALLY AT HAND! It would have been something less than honest if God had said the kingdom was imminent when it was really hundreds of years away!

It is one thing for God to promise something and not give any indication as to when he would fulfill the promise, for then man has no indication of when to expect fulfillment. It is an entirely different thing for God to indicate a time frame for fulfillment and not bring the promise to fulfillment in that indicated time frame! This involves a basic attribute of the nature of God.

In Numbers 24:17-18 Balaam the prophet made a prediction of Christ's coming: "I see him but not now, I behold him but not near." Notice he said Christ's coming was NOT NEAR; IT WAS NOT AT HAND. Why did he say this? Because Christ's coming was over 1400 years away, and 1400 years really is a long time! Here is a concrete example where God referred to a long time as just that.

This is an important question in light of the traditional interpretations of Revelation. Daniel was told to seal up his vision because the time for its fulfillment was a long time away--365 years. John was specifically told NOT TO SEAL UP HIS VISION BECAUSE WHAT HE SAW WAS AT HAND! John is told his vision, not part of his vision, was "at hand" and "must shortly come to pass!" Reader, did God call the 365 years for the fulfillment of Daniel's prophecy a "long time" and call the fulfillment of Revelation, which most commentators say has not been fulfilled after 2000 years so far, "at hand?" To say the least, this would hardly be consistent!

Many do not realize the Bible gives an example of man attempting to change the meaning of time words used by God; and God's response.

In Ezekiel 7, God through Ezekiel said the Day of the Lord was at hand. The Day of the Lord in this context was when God used Babylon to punish Israel for her sin. This is the concept of the Day of the Lord; it is not an "end of time" idea. It is when God used a nation to punish another as it related to his chosen people.

In chapter 11 Israel responded to the threat of coming judgment. They insisted that although Ezekiel said it was at hand it was really not. It was time to build houses, not worry about judgment. One can almost hear some of those people: "Well, yes, Ezekiel has said the Day of the Lord is at hand, but after all, 'one day is with the Lord as a thousand years and a thousand years is as a day,' Psalms 90:4"

When Israel "elasticized" God's words of imminence into relativity, ambiguity and meaning-less-ness, God responded. In Ezekiel 12:21ff, [Please, take the time to get your Bible and read it for yourself!] Adonai told Ezekiel to tell Israel that her days of changing the time for his predictions were over. He had said judgment was at hand; Israel said it was not at hand. Jehovah would not tolerate it.

Ezekiel was instructed to tell Israel that in that generation judgment would fall just as Jehovah had indicated when he said it was at hand. [Have you read those verses for yourself yet? If not, why not do it right now and see for yourself that what we are saying is true?] What we have then, is an example of man saying that while God had said something was imminent it really was not; it was for a long time off. We have God's response; when God said "at hand" he meant "at hand!" He did not mean hundreds or thousands of years; he meant "soon!"

Another example of man changing the meaning of God's time words is in Amos 6:3. God warned Israel the time had come for her to be judged, 8:2, Hosea 1:4. In spite of the warnings Israel "put far off the evil day." Isaiah 56:12 shows they were saying "tomorrow shall be as today." In spite of God's warning that judgment was at hand they insisted "All things continue as they were," cf. II Peter 3:3-4! They refused to believe God meant "near" when he said "at hand!" As a result God said "Woe" to them!

Reader, what is the practical difference between Israel of Old denying "at hand" meant "soon," and Bible students today who read the New Testament time statements and say they did not mean "soon?" What is the difference between those in Isaiah's day who denied the warnings of imminent judgment, saying life was going to go on as usual, and those today who read the time statements made in the first century and say the predicted events were not truly imminent? Those who deny the first century application of the at hand time statements of the New Testament are doing the same thing as the Israelites of Old--denying that "at hand" meant "soon!"

Upon what basis can one acknowledge that God condemned Israel for changing "at hand" into a "long time" and then think it is justifiable for modern man to do so when studying the New Testament? Israel of old apparently argued that time doesn't mean anything to God.
 
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Hidden Manna

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Nehi said:
You just told me you don't understand the futurist view, HM. And I have shown you points where you misrepresent the futurist view.



~ NEHI
Why don't you spend some quality time in reading the posts instead of nit picken. You have shown me nothing, show me scriptures.
 
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CrownCaster

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Imblessed said:
Can I just jump in here and tell everyone to calm down? I'm a bit distressed that the preterists and futurists have to start fighting. I would hope that we could discuss our differences with each others' views in a more adult manner. Name calling will get us nowhere.

So, everyone, STOP! Take a deep breathe, count to 10(or 20, or 30)...and realize that this bickering will get us nowhere.


thank you.....

in love,
windi
I certainly hope that my message has not come across as fighting. In fact, this is the message I have been trying to stress. Showing such division to the world and over something so unimportant is senseless.
 
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Justme

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Hi Forum,

About futurism,

Some here say the great tribulation WILL be a danger to Christians and Christians may have to go thru the great tribulation. No Christian alive to day has anything to fear from the great tribulation.

Some here say that at death they will go to heaven or hell, but the parousia is sometime in the future. So they feel that they can get into heaven before the parousia which is the final establishment of the kingdom of Heaven. I'd like to know how that works.

Some here teach that after a stint in heaven the soul/spirit/something returns to earth to re-unite with the body in the grave and come up out of the grave to live on planet earth again. I've asked for scripture for that and I have asked how much time is allotted for that in light of 2 Cor 5:1.

Some here here feel they will be 'raptured out of the way of the great tribulation, during the great tribulation and some feel they have to suffer thru the great tribulation.

Some here figure the total end of earth occurs at the parousia even tho the bible states that believers who die AFTER the parousia will be blessed.

Some here say Jesus will return to earth for the 1000 year reign. Some say Jesus will return to earth for eternity.

That is what I have been led to believe that futurism promotes. Have I got mistakes there?

Justme
 
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Dukey

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Hidden Manna said:
Futurism is starting to go down big time because of the Bible answer man's radio talk show from the Christian Research Instatute. Here is what was said from someone who is still a futurist.


Wow what a timely subject. I was listening yesterday to the radio to "The Bible answer man" with Hank Hennengraph and Lee Strobel. The 2 of them believe and teach this theory of "Preterist" what is sad and I really don't know about this subject very much. But they had caller after caller. Just in shock that they have been taught wrong and possibly they needed to find a "Real" bible teaching church. I guess if you do not believe in the way they (Lee Strobel and the bible answer man)do. You are being lied to. And have been listening to faults teachers and pastors. It is amazing when I heard this the other day. That people in hearing this for the very first time. That they wanted to leave there churches and find another pastor and church.

I am kind of mad at Hank and Good Ole Lee Strobel. They have millions of people that listen to them and believe every word that they say and read. And in one 15 minute segment they sounded like my old pastor "We are the ones that are telling you the truth and all others are wrong and have faults worldly views"

I would have liked to got on there show and I tried but it was taped. And told the people that are listening that just because Hank and Mr.Strobel says something does not make it biblical and true.

One more thing if Lee Strobel Believes in that all the book of Revelations and Daniel has taken place. Why does Lee Strobel in his books say you need to be ready for the coming of Jesus and miss the bowl judgements that will come on the earth.

So what does this all mean? If the book of Daniel and Revelation has already taken place. Were is all the Bowl Judgments and the destruction of 2/3rds of the human race? When did the judgment it self happen? When is the 144,000 Jewish men are going to go around the world and proclaim the end time good news to all that will listen. When is the time of we will not be able to by or sale anything going to happen? Were is the rebuilt Temple? Were is our Messiah is he setting on the throne on earth? If the book of Revelations and Daniel has already been fulfilled as they were saying in 70ad. I guess the 1,000 millineum ended
in 1070ad. When are we going to get our heavenly perfected body's. I am still waiting.

I don't understand!!!! I hope I am not sounding stupid and weird.


I was just amazed that just because Lee Strobel and The Bible answer man said these things people were ready to leave there churches and proclaim that the churches and pastors of those churches were faults teachers.


What do all of you think.
hank hannegraff and lee strobel are doctrinally incorrect at times
 
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Breetai

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Have I got mistakes there?
Here's one:
Some here say that at death they will go to heaven or hell, but the parousia is sometime in the future. So they feel that they can get into heaven before the parousia which is the final establishment of the kingdom of Heaven. I'd like to know how that works.
Nobody believes that they will go into the 'final establishment' of heaven when they die right now. The Bible says that there will be a 'new heaven' and that the 'old heaven' will pass away.
 
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Cubes

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I had never even heard of preterists, futurists and many of the names used here until several days ago when I joined CF. And I don't know what they are about so I would appreciate more info in a nutshell, if you don't mind. But I think I am beginning to get the idea from this requote by Hidden Manna:
So what does this all mean? If the book of Daniel and Revelation has already taken place. Were is all the Bowl Judgments and the destruction of 2/3rds of the human race? When did the judgment it self happen? When is the 144,000 Jewish men are going to go around the world and proclaim the end time good news to all that will listen. When is the time of we will not be able to by or sale anything going to happen? Were is the rebuilt Temple? Were is our Messiah is he setting on the throne on earth? If the book of Revelations and Daniel has already been fulfilled as they were saying in 70ad. I guess the 1,000 millineum ended in 1070ad. When are we going to get our heavenly perfected body's. I am still waiting.


Am I to understand that some believe that Jesus has already returned as promised? I want to add to the above quote and answer with the scriptures:

Romans 8:19-24: For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it in hope; because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. And not only they, but we also who have the firstfruits of the spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. For WE WERE SAVED IN THIS HOPE, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? but if we hope for what we do not see, then we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.


When Noah got into the Ark, he knew. When Lot and his children were saved, they knew. When Jesus comes back we shall ALL know --- including unbelievers. It would be a truly global event of proportions that cannot be missed or misinterpreted.


I am of those who eagerly wait for his 2nd appearing. The trees and animals wait. The people wait. The whole creation waits. Nothing could be more contrary to the scriptures.

Disputing in love. Look forward to hearing from you and getting back to you after the holidays. This post is not specifically addressed to HM so anyone may answer.
 
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Breetai

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Preterism- Christ has already come the second time, but it was spiritual only and invisible. There is no bodily resurrection of the dead.

Futurism- Christ is yet to come the second time, it will be physical and visible. There will be a bodily resurrection of the dead.
 
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