Full Preterism is false because...why???

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Brain Damage

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Phoenix said:
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Define the world in a Biblical sense. Paul believed he had completed his mission and had preached the Gospel to the whole world according to Jesus' great commission.


Yes i agree , Paul did indeed think he had preached the gospel to the whole world , but as i said earlier , Paul believed the end would come in his generation .

But the end never came and the gospel is till being preached to the world to this day.
 
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armothe

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Brain Damage said:
Yes i agree , Paul did indeed think he had preached the gospel to the whole world , but as i said earlier , Paul believed the end would come in his generation..But the end never came and the gospel is till being preached to the world to this day.
I'm sorry, but who do you believe actually authored the words of Paul's epistles?
Who are you claiming to have been wrong?

-A
 
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Pericles

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Brain Damage said:
Yes i agree , Paul did indeed think he had preached the gospel to the whole world , but as i said earlier , Paul believed the end would come in his generation .

But the end never came and the gospel is till being preached to the world to this day.
And what else is Paul wrong about?
 
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Brain Damage

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Pericles said:
And what else is Paul wrong about?

Well i think he might have been wrong when he told the corinthian church members not to get married because the time is short .

However i am interested to hear your opinion on this , as Justme and myself have not been able to come to a conclusion on this.


Quote - I think that it is good for you to remain as you are. Are you married? Do not seek a divorce. Are you unmarried? Do not look for a wife.

And then he gives them the reason why , Quote - What I mean, brothers, is that the time is short.


I'm thinking that what he means by short is similar to soon , near , at hand , any moment now , etc etc .

I would appreciate any insight you may have on this , thanks.
 
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Justme

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Hi Brain Damage,

The end did come in Pauls generation. So did the parousia. So did the seventh trumpet sound, so did the great tribulation, so did the resurrection of the dead, but us bibli-ists consider the second coming to be future.

You already have noted this one:
Matthew 24

14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

Paul tells us it is done here:

COl 1
This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

If the gospel wasn't preached to every creature under Heaven Paul lied. You can take the statement as hyperbole, symbolism or things like that, but to come out the interpretive end with a statement saying the exact opposite to what Paul wrote just isn't acceptable.

Jesus instructs His apostles to proclaim the gospel....to the Jews...

Matthew 10
5These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: "Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans.

This would happen before they finished that:

23When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

John the beloved would live until Jesus returned.

John 21
22Jesus answered, "If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you?

Daniel would rest until the end of the ages........

Daniel 12
13 "But as for you, go your way to the end; then you will enter into rest and rise again for your allotted portion at the end of the age."

When is that time of the end of the ages?
Hebrews 9
26 Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

MAtthew 24
15 "Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place ( let the reader understand),
16 then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.

Where is this Holy Place? Well, there is one here:
Hebrews 9
2 For there was a tabernacle prepared, the outer one, in which were the lampstand and the table and the sacred bread; this is called the holy place.

That holy place was destroyed in 70 AD. After that the Holy place was here:
12 and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.

Jesus is in that Holy Place, it would be difficult for an abomination to get in there because Jesus is in Heaven. It would be equally as difficult for people in Jerusalem to SEE this abomination in Heaven so they would know when to flee. Fleeing from Judea was not possible after 70 AD either because it ceased to exsist as a district then.

Finally the puzzle.........

The only possible way that all three writers can be correct in how they recorded the question and how they recorded one of he 'things' as the coming is if the 'end' and the 'coming' are connected to the destruction of that temple.

That's the short version.

Justme
 
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Pericles

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Brain Damage said:
Well i think he might have been wrong when he told the corinthian church members not to get married because the time is short
I'm thinking that what he means by short is similar to soon , near , at hand , any moment now , etc etc .

I would appreciate any insight you may have on this , thanks.
The moment you say that Paul (or any other inspired writer) was wrong, you are making quite a few assumptions:

1. You arrogantly declare that you know something more/better than Paul did.
2. You are implying that Paul was not writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

Maybe Paul was NOT wrong, and you are just misunderstanding what he said. He was not talking about the end of the world. He was talking about the end of the Mosaic covenant, which was represented by the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem. See Hebrews 9

If you keep saying that Paul was wrong about anything, then you have to admit that you don't have a clue what he is right or wrong about to begin with. Either there are no mistakes in the Bible, or there are, in which case anyone claiming to be a Christian is screwed....
 
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Brain Damage

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Pericles said:
The moment you say that Paul (or any other inspired writer) was wrong, you are making quite a few assumptions:

1. You arrogantly declare that you know something more/better than Paul did.
2. You are implying that Paul was not writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

Maybe Paul was NOT wrong, and you are just misunderstanding what he said. He was not talking about the end of the world. He was talking about the end of the Mosaic covenant, which was represented by the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem. See Hebrews 9

So if Paul is refering to the end of the Mosiac covenant in corinthians , why would he ask people to stay as they are , and if you are single don't get married ?

What has the end of the Mosiac covenant got to do with basically telling people not to have children...?...:scratch:
 
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FreeinChrist

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Brain Damage said:
Well i think he might have been wrong when he told the corinthian church members not to get married because the time is short .
Corinth was the like the fourth largest city - Rome and Athens and Antioch being larger - and it had a large Jewish presence. The 'present crisis" had alot to do with not only the persecution the church at Corinth was recieving, but also the crisis within the church as well. There were BIG problems regarding immorality, bringing lawsuits against each other in front of unbeleivers, lots of marriage problems....and it was hurting the witness of the church. I believe Paul expected an imminent return of Christ as we should all expect His immininet return. But the present crisis was not about the Antichrist, or about the Great Tribulation.

and no, Christ did not return in 70 AD, He already reigned through His church on earth (a reign with many enemies) and was here through the Spirit since Pentecost.
 
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Justme

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Hi Brain Damage,

What has the end of the Mosiac covenant got to do with basically telling people not to have children...?.
I'll go over to a preterist board and run this by them.

I agree that the 'end' is the covenant but I still can't get this verse to shake out where it satisfies me.

Justme
 
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FreeinChrist

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Brain Damage said:
So if Paul is refering to the end of the Mosiac covenant in corinthians , why would he ask people to stay as they are , and if you are single don't get married ?

What has the end of the Mosiac covenant got to do with basically telling people not to have children...?...:scratch:
It wasn't about the end of the Mosaic covenant....God tore the veil sparating the Holy of Holies when Christ died (paying the price).

And many of the members of the Corinthian church were gentiles....thus all the difficulties they were having with sin issues...
 
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Hidden Manna

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Quote:Originally Posted by: Brain Damage
So if Paul is refering to the end of the Mosiac covenant in corinthians , why would he ask people to stay as they are , and if you are single don't get married ?

What has the end of the Mosiac covenant got to do with basically telling people not to have children...?





I believe Paul may have said this because of the perscution that was happening to Christians.
 
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Brain Damage

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Hidden Manna said:
Quote:Originally Posted by: Brain Damage
So if Paul is refering to the end of the Mosiac covenant in corinthians , why would he ask people to stay as they are , and if you are single don't get married ?

What has the end of the Mosiac covenant got to do with basically telling people not to have children...?





I believe Paul may have said this because of the perscution that was happening to Christians.

Thanks for your input HM but i disagree , if the time is short because Paul knew persecution was coming then they would have done something about it , like get out of town.

If this had been Jerusalem then the preterist answer would probably have been that jesus said , "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be".


But this is not Jerusalem , which why i chose this specific church , so that no preterist could try and tie it in with Jerusalem where jesus says ,"woe to those with children".










 
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Hidden Manna

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Brain Damage said:
Thanks for your input HM but i disagree , if the time is short because Paul knew persecution was coming then they would have done something about it , like get out of town.

If this had been Jerusalem then the preterist answer would probably have been that jesus said , "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be".


But this is not Jerusalem , which why i chose this specific church , so that no preterist could try and tie it in with Jerusalem where jesus says ,"woe to those with children".











Okay I give up. Whats the answer? :yawn:
 
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Justme

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Hi Hidden and Brain Damage,

I believe Paul may have said this because of the perscution that was happening to Christians.
Well, Paul was a victim of that persecution eventually wasn't he? However, I thought Paul wrote those letters to the Corintians ealier than that, that's what is confusing me.

I just got a message up on a preterist board this morning. I asked them to give futurist interpretation as well, if they could.

See ya later, gotta watch 9 year olds play hockey today,

Justme
 
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Justme

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HI Forum,

I'm still getting e-mails about this thread that was locked on the eschatology forum.

http://www.christianforums.com/t1144618-full-preterism-is-false-doctrine-because.html

There is a tremondous interest in the preterist idea of the bible. The thread on the other forum had over five thousand views, I looked thru threads here and preterism in the title draws interest here as well.

There are some references to this thread over on eschatology also. I realize that preterist material is available at various websites, but there is interest here, let's provide material here.

I don't fit exactly into either full or partial preterism, but futurism makes absolutely zero sense to me.

Let's lay out every verse, every historical fact, everbody can think of that either 'proves' preterism or 'disproves' futurism. Let's get at it.

Flight of the people......flee from Judea......Judea ceased to exist in 70 AD.
How can anybody flee from Judea today?

Stuff like that. List anything that comes to mind.

Justme
 
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Justme

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Hi forum,

Following along in that Jesus returned to Heaven in the exact same body He was in on earth...............

Well, Jesus was with nail marks in His hands and feet and a hole in His side where He was pierced>>>>>>

DO you want to be taken up to Heaven in a state of being .....beheaded?????
Justme
 
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