LaHaye vs. Hanegraaff -- Premillennialism vs. Preterism

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FreeinChrist

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I hadn't realized that Hanegraaff believed that heresy - but then I was never real impressed by the 'Bible Answer man'. The Second coming and rapture in 70 AD..... sad false teaching.
 
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bobbichan

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Heh, I'd like to see someone write a novel about there being a post-tribulation rapture and encountering all the people who believe all of these different ideas and how they'll deal with the truth then. =P

I've been considering writing a story like that, but I can never finish what I start. =P
 
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Pericles

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FreeinChrist said:
I hadn't realized that Hanegraaff believed that heresy - but then I was never real impressed by the 'Bible Answer man'. The Second coming and rapture in 70 AD..... sad false teaching.
A heresy according to what Church? You are saying this as if the Left Behind **** is "God-given" and inspired. The Church of LaHaye of latter-day idiots is doing pretty good apparently!
 
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FreeinChrist

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bobbichan said:
Heh, I'd like to see someone write a novel about there being a post-tribulation rapture and encountering all the people who believe all of these different ideas and how they'll deal with the truth then. =P

I've been considering writing a story like that, but I can never finish what I start. =P
Well, if there is a posttrib novel witten, I'd like to see han author deal with the shock and disbeleif of those who believe Armageddon and the beast and the rapture already happened in 70 AD as they deal with the trumpet judgments.

At least posttrib recognizes the futurism of Revelation. :)
 
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NumberOneSon

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FreeinChrist said:
I hadn't realized that Hanegraaff believed that heresy.
Partial Preterism is not a heresy. I believe Handegraff has shifted his view to partial preterism. Full preterism is not what his books are about.

In Christ,

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THE DALLAS MORNING NEWS

What if the Rapture has already happened? What if the Book of Revelation's prophecies have been fulfilled?

These questions are unthinkable for those Christians who believe that the end of the world is still to come and that it will unfold in accordance with apocalyptic interpretations of Revelation: the Rapture, the sudden snatching up of millions of the faithful into heaven, followed by the seven-year Tribulation, during which the world is ruled by the Antichrist, followed by the return of Jesus and his triumph in the battle of Armageddon.

That's more or less the story line hewed to in the phenomenally popular Left Behind series. Now, however, Tyndale House, the Christian publisher of Left Behind, is planning a new fictional series with a very different view -- one that posits that Revelation actually tells the story (in code) of the first-century persecution of Christians and of the fall of the Jewish Temple.
I wonder if he will let Justme, I an other spirit led christians help him on his next book!!! Praise the Lord. Wonder why he says "code"?:confused: It is just a lot of OT jewish symbology. This is really exciting!.
 
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Ben07

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This theory of all that is written happening by 70 AD. There is a link there on the opening post (for preterist belief, biblical, explanations) as you noticed I am sure. My opinion, obvious manipulation to their references to scripture, you know add a word, change a word, whole new meaning etc. Now just off the top to only mention a couple as there is a lot of you out there who can do a lot better than myself. There are some profound missing items. (profound being the key word here), as in lets go right to the top. Lets go to the head Master's Words here and forget about all the little pieces that tear this hypocrisy apart. Jesus did say, referenced several times by several new testament gospels etc and referred back to the book of Daniel etc. That these end times would come , for instance, at a time of a great increase in knowledge. And another was when mankind would be tampering with the engines of life. I will stop here, cause I can only imagine the preterist rebuttals, probably alluding to some partial view etc. no offence. But they thought the world was flat in zero AD and they still thought it was flat in 70 AD. From there it still took them over a thousand years to figure it out it was round. 70 AD a time of great knowledge? Then Christ said another profound thing., that mankind will have the ability and will be tampering with the engines of life. I would believe that late 20th century cloning discovery/practices would heavily fill that description and nothing else. If someone can come up with a substitute for what He meant here that happened before 70 AD, I'm all ears.



If someone out there is any good at portraying some of the other obvious missing links rebuttals than feel free. I think they should be mentioned and this thread could go on. As I did learn something here that I was not quite able to figure out in the past. I had occasion to listen to "The Bible Answer Man." I never really seemed to think much of his show, so now I may have the reason why.
 
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Hi Ben.
Whether one is a preterist or futurists, at least this may get more people into actually studying the bible more. People seemed to have strayed away from it too much and some have gone to bible colleges that teach certain doctrines so it perpetuates itself.
Wouldn't you agree that more should really just read the bible through after putting everything they have heard from others [even from me] and just let them see what God will reveal to them.
Doesn't matter to me who believes in what, I preach mainly Christ in us and the CROSS. That is all that matters to me as far as bringing people to Christ and building a relationship with Him.
I won't be posting much on here so this board can be used for what is was designed for, futuristic and endtime discussions. Good luck and God bless.

gala 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those [who are] Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.
 
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bobbichan

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I don't think partial preterisim is heresy either.. just to clear that up. A lot of things did happen then that seem to fit the bill, but not everything was fufilled.

Actually with some stuff I've come across lately, it seems like history is repeating itself in some ways (Neb and Saddam passages and simularites for example). But that's a different topic all together... and one I'm not at all sure of. *shrug* I don't know how God works and to assume I do, is heresy. XD

But yep...

It is important to focus on Jesus and God's Word... so in that sense, it may not matter. However, if you are being taught a specific end-times doctrine that may not be truthful, it can cause a lot of problems for you and your loved ones if you end up living in that "time of distress". Since we don't know when it'll happen precisely, and it'll come like the "Days of Noah" to those who aren't watching... it's important to know what to look for and to search for the truth in God's Word alone.
 
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christianfilmcrew said:
Eeek, just seeing the words "preterism" or "preterist" are enough to make me shudder....
It does get old after awhile; we will keep an eye on things. Partial preterism is ok, Full preterism is heresy. The problem that we are having is that some full preterists say that they are partial............................it would be so simple if they would just post in Unorthodox Theology

oh well, its just more work:doh:
 
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Justme

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Hi Forum,

Or is it this that is important?

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

Justme
 
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Euryale

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boughtwithaprice said:
It does get old after awhile; we will keep an eye on things. Partial preterism is ok, Full preterism is heresy. The problem that we are having is that some full preterists say that they are partial............................it would be so simple if they would just post in Unorthodox Theology

oh well, its just more work:doh:
Shouldn't the Rapture talk on here also be in Unorthodox Theology as it is considered pretty much heresy by 80% or more of the Christian faith?
 
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drstevej

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Euryale said:
Shouldn't the Rapture talk on here also be in Unorthodox Theology...

***MOD HAT ON***

The doctrine of the rapture is not incompatible with the Nicene Creed and it is therefore acceptable to advocate and discuss it on the Eschatology Forum conforms with Rule 6. The Nicene Creed is the measure employed on CF.

I would further ask of those posting in this forum that respect be shown to Christians who hold this view.
 
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muffler dragon

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I would like to make just a couple small comments.

Tim LaHaye said:
But the Rev. Tim LaHaye, co-author of the Left Behind books, called the decision by his publisher "stunning and disappointing" and said he felt betrayed: "They are going to take the money we made for them and promote this nonsense."

I find it funny that a man who has made millions off of a work of FICTION is declaring something else nonsense.

FreeinChrist said:
I hadn't realized that Hanegraaff believed that heresy - but then I was never real impressed by the 'Bible Answer man'. The Second coming and rapture in 70 AD..... sad false teaching.

I would be interested in knowing what reasoning there is behind calling preterism heresy. I am not educated in why that would be the case.

Lastly, the book of Revelation is a very difficult book to understand. Anyone who thinks they can stake a claim of high certainty on it is fooling themselves, IMO.

m.d.
 
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Euryale said:
Shouldn't the Rapture talk on here also be in Unorthodox Theology as it is considered pretty much heresy by 80% or more of the Christian faith?
not on this board.............

premillenialism, amillenialism, and postmillenialism are acceptable topics.

Partial preterism can be discussed, but I am particularly wary of full preterists. Six months ago, they tried to get premil declared heresy, and full preterism promoted. That failed, and now this is being tried. Post a thread that asks for dissenting opinion and use it as a springboard to talk about an unorthodox subject.


This message is for everyone.........The rules are determined by staff and the owner of Christian Forums. This is not the place to question or undermine the rules. You must simply obey them. I don't know why that is so hard for some people. If you don't like the rules, then take the subject up in official forums: suggestions, not here.
 
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Ben07

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Hello In Christ Forever

My compliments on your post (Num 11 if anybody is interested) There is a lot of "bringing people to Christ and building a relationship with Him." (to quote you), in there. Yes you need to know other sides, then gather all that you learn, figure out what is best, hope that you sifted thru and came up with a proper perspective, in this case a Holy Godly one. Preaching Christ in us is definitely agreed as num 1 priority. Building a relationship with Him is where it gets complicated, not in building the relationship, but in understanding it, perpetuating it and helping others figure it out. Broad subject to say the least. That is sometimes a problem in this forum, as it is a mixture of people coming in for western Christianity 101 on the lower end and about two forms of study on the higher end. I.e. rocket science eschatology 911 to artificial intelligence eschatology 666. And a lot of that is great or can be good however when it gets to that level it always seems to implode, and starts breaking the rules of this forum.

I have nothing against a person who is a preterist, and I don't completely have the concept yet on what a partial preterist is. However what I have observer is the more aligned the person is with the preterist view in this forum, the more pointed and contrived their explanations seem. The fundamentalist view is more of an actual biblical fact upon fact come walk with me type view, rather than constantly relying on a high level of speculation. And yes that is just an opinion, happens to be mine.

And In Christ Forever in regards to your statement ("even from you") May the good Lord Bless everyone, especially those who are asking for it.



Ben07

 
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