Word-Faith?

This is what I said, "Apostles and the early Church don't show these examples. There's no evidence of people building up their faith and claiming it based on certain passages. We don't see them using positive confession."

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Heb 10:
23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; for he is faithful that promised:

Heb 4:
14 Seeing then that we have a great High Priest, that hath passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

Phm 1:
6 That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus.

Rom 10:
10 For with the heart men believe and obtain righteousness, and with the mouth they make confession and obtain salvation.


Luk 6:
45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

Here is more faith food...enjoy!

"For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it." (Romans 8:24-25)

According to Romans, hope is actually looking at something that you can't see. How do you do that? You do it by looking at the promises of God in the Word until with your inner eyes--the eyes of your spirit--a picture is formed.

For example, one of the hardest things I ever had to do was face the fact that the inner image I had of myself physically was fat. It didn't matter how hard I tried to change, it wouldn't go away. I was always on a diet. I must have lost (and regained) hundreds of pounds over the years.

I finally had to admit that as long as my inner image of myself was fat, my outer self was going to match it. Remember, it's faith that changes things, and without the inner image of hope, faith cannot work.

So I decided to fast for seven days. I searched my Bible for every scripture I could find on food and eating and I found many.

I meditated on every one of those scriptures and prayed in the Spirit for seven full days. What was I doing? I was laying hold on a different inner image.

This is not something you can do overnight. It takes time. Especially if the inner image you're changing has been there for years.

But you can do it. Go to the Word of God today and begin to change the images inside you. Change them from images of despair to images of hope. Get a blueprint in your heart and your faith will build on it!

Scripture Study: Romans 4:16-21

didaskalos said:

Heb 10:
23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; for he is faithful that promised:

Heb 4:
14 Seeing then that we have a great High Priest, that hath passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

Phm 1:
6 That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus.

Rom 10:
10 For with the heart men believe and obtain righteousness, and with the mouth they make confession and obtain salvation.


Luk 6:
45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

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I do think there's a big difference between witnessing and saying what good things God has done for us, and praying things like, "God, you said in your word that I can have whatever I ask, so Lord, I need a Mercedes."

usadingo said:

I do think there's a big difference between witnessing and saying what good things God has done for us, and praying things like, "God, you said in your word that I can have whatever I ask, so Lord, I need a Mercedes."

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Thanks for the response USAdingo.
I know that is not what I am saying, and I do not think that is what the others are saying. Confession is not about prayer. Confession is simply saying the same things as you heart believes. If you have a belief in your heart and speak it with your mouth... something happens. Jesus said it does. Confession may come after prayer, if you believe you received what you asked for. But these things have to come from the heart... not the head or the flesh. Asking for a Mercedes could very well come from the flesh. I dunno. But in today's world people cannot really survive without transportation. I live 23 miles from where I work. I cannot work without a car. It is not out of bounds to ask for and believe to receive a car. That is a need.
A warm safe house is also not outside of the realm of "needs."
Health is something required if you are to live a normal happy life.
These are not things anyone could characterize as fleshy or carnal needs. They are things we all need to live the full and satified lives He as a loving Father wants us to live.

Peace UD

usadingo said:

I do think there's a big difference between witnessing and saying what good things God has done for us, and praying things like, "God, you said in your word that I can have whatever I ask, so Lord, I need a Mercedes."

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You're absolutely correct dingo. . .there is a big difference.

Jesus said, "if you abide in Me and My words abide in you, ask what you will and it will be done unto you."(John 15:7) In James 4:3 it says, "you ask, and receive not, because you ask amiss, that you may consume it upon your lusts."

To abide means:
1: to wait for: AWAIT
2a: to endure without yielding: WITHSTAND b:to bear patiently:TOLERATE
3: to accept without objection
4: to remain stable or fixed in a state
5: to continue in a place: SOJOURN

If we are abiding in Him, we are waiting patiently for whatever need we have. We endure without complaining and becoming weary.

We accept without objection, Him. We remain stable on Him and His word without stumbling and mumbling and complaining. We are not our focus, He is our focus. And we continue until the end.

In order to mature in our walk with Him, there will be times of chastening. There will be times of grief and suffering wrongfully. There will be times of hardness, and persecutions and tribulations. I personally have gone through all of these things and God used them but He did not cause them. They were caused by either my sin or someone else's.

If we abide in Him and He abides in us. . . it is impossible to ask amiss. God said we can have whatever we want but only when our want for Him is bigger than our want for ourselves. Him alone.

There is an intimate love relationship going on in this scripture. I in Him, He in me. . .and somewhere in the middle of all the passion, He whispers to His bride, "ask whatever you want and I'll give it to you."

The one focussed on Him won't ask for more than needed to accomplish the job He as given them to do. The one focussed on themself will ask according to their own lust and won't recieve and will go in want.

When I sought healing, I sought God for my part in the problem and He faithfully showed me and I changed. As I changed the problem changed. He showed me how to stand against the enemy in a way I had never done before. He showed me how to keep the enemy away. He showed me the doors that I opened here and there with my words and my actions, and He showed me how to change that.

God desires that we be whole. The most important issue to Him is our soul and once that part is taken care of then He can start work on the rest. We are not left to grovel in whatever bad circumstance we find ourself in. He has given us a way out and we can learn it, put it into practice, and then live in it.

All of that does not happen overnight. It is a process of time. It was nearly 20 years for me. And now He's showing me more stuff I need to learn. Oy vey! Always learning. Always growing. Always changing. More and more each day being conformed to His image.

What a great and mighty and awsome God we serve. That He would even care boggles my mind.

(us and Jesus)
(Rev 3:20) Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sug with him, and he with Me.

didaskalos said:

Asking for a Mercedes could very well come from the flesh. I dunno. But in today's world people cannot really survive without transportation. I live 23 miles from where I work. I cannot work without a car. It is not out of bounds to ask for and believe to receive a car. That is a need.

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Here's the problem though. Many teachers within the Word of Faith movement are preaching that if you need a car, you should pray for a Mercedes, Lexus, Rolls Royce, etc. Why? Because Jesus was rich, and so should we! If you're not rich, it's your own fault.

There's a huge difference between provision, and prosperity. If we need a car, we should pray and expect for provision. That may mean a 80's model with a lot of miles on it that gets the job done. We shouldn't expect luxuary though.

USA, I get your point. Many use the Word for some sort of great personal gain by pretense. Since I was saved, I don't pray for a car, I just speak the Word only and walk it out to manifestation. Only way it fails is if I doubt the words, or not in line with the Word.

So far, it has happened every time. Same way with all the benefits of being a child of God. All the promises of God in Him, are "Yes" and "amen"....etc.

Word up!

Luchnia, great testimony!!!

Luchnia said:

Many use the Word for some sort of great personal gain by pretense.

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I agree with that, too...In fact I believe this group is even mentioned in the Book of the Revelation of John! I'll show you;

Revelation 3:14. And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; these things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
15. I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18. I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
20. Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21. To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
22. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

The people Luchnia described above, obviously fit this class and in this line of thinking, is it no wonder these people (devoid of relationship with God), Please look at Mathew 7;
21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23. And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

These people worked the Word without a relationship with God and deceived themselves...They thought "they" were the ones doing the works of miracles even though it all was done in the Name of Jesus...

Am I making any sense here? The whole key to the "Word of Faith" movement is this;

(AMP) Matthew 6:24. No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will stand by and be devoted to the one and despise and be against the other. You cannot serve God and mammon (deceitful riches, money, possessions, or whatever is trusted in). do you have it, or does it have you?
25. Therefore I tell you, stop being perpetually uneasy (anxious and worried) about your life, what you shall eat or what you shall drink; or about your body, what you shall put on. Is not life greater [in quality] than food, and the body [far above and more excellent] than clothing?
26. Look at the birds of the air; they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father keeps feeding them. Are you not worth much more than they?
27. And who of you by worrying and being anxious can add one unit of measure (cubit) to his stature or to the span of his life?
28. And why should you be anxious about clothes? Consider the lilies of the field and learn thoroughly how they grow; they neither toil nor spin.
29. Yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his magnificence (excellence, dignity, and grace) was not arrayed like one of these. [I Kings 10:4-7.]
30. But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is alive and green and tomorrow is tossed into the furnace, will He not much more surely clothe you, O you of little faith?
31. Therefore do not worry and be anxious, saying, What are we going to have to eat? or, What are we going to have to drink? or, What are we going to have to wear?
32. For the Gentiles (heathen) wish for and crave and diligently seek all these things, and your heavenly Father knows well that you need them all.
33. But seek (aim at and strive after) first of all His kingdom and His righteousness (His way of doing and being right), and then all these things taken together will be given you besides.
34. So do not worry or be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will have worries and anxieties of its own. Sufficient for each day is its own trouble.

I hope this came out clearly...

May our God and Lord Jesus bless you richly...

usadingo said:

Here's the problem though. Many teachers within the Word of Faith movement are preaching that if you need a car, you should pray for a Mercedes, Lexus, Rolls Royce, etc. Why? Because Jesus was rich, and so should we! If you're not rich, it's your own fault.

There's a huge difference between provision, and prosperity. If we need a car, we should pray and expect for provision. That may mean a 80's model with a lot of miles on it that gets the job done. We shouldn't expect luxuary though.

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IMHO, that's the poverty mentality...where's the faith in that and two, how does that glorify God?

The faith is found in believing God will provide. Faith despite the situation is what glorifies God. I've seen more faith in the person dying of cancer though still praising God than the person in my church who got a new car.

usadingo said:

The faith is found in believing God will provide. Faith despite the situation is what glorifies God.

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yes dingo. . .we agree again.

For me, it hasn't been that way. I haven't seen much faith in those dying with cancer. It seems the ones I have seen that died with cancer waited until they were near death before they even concerned themselves with God, or acknowledging God at all until they were desperate. I saw little, or no glory in it at all, but then I have only seen a few die that way. Most I have seen sick, glorify sickness more than God and have very little faith at all.

True faith is seeing your words live and watching them move heaven on your behalf as was the case with the great men of faith as Abraham, Enoch, Daniel, Elijah, Elisha, Moses, Noah, David, Jesus, Stephen, Philip, Paul, etc. Men like these stopped the heavens, gave sight to the blind, healed the sick, made the lame to walk, raised the dead, subdued cities, quenched the mouths of lions, and so-forth. This is the type of faith that glorifies God. Faith that is unfeigned with a lion-like courage to accept nothing of the enemy is the kind of faith that glorifies God. You can read about the God kind of faith in the book of Hebrews.

Word up!

What pleases God?

Psa 35:27

(EMTV) New Testament only

(GB) But let them be ioyful and glad, that loue my righteousnesse: yea, let them say alway, Let the Lord be magnified, which loueth the prosperitie of his seruant.

(KJV) Let them shout for joy, and be glad, that favour my righteous cause: yea, let them say continually, Let the LORD be magnified, which hath pleasure in the prosperity of his servant.

(LITV) Let those who delight in my justification shout and rejoice; and they shall say without ceasing, Jehovah be magnified, delighting in the peace of His servant.

(MSG) But those who want the best for me, Let them have the last word--a glad shout!-- and say, over and over and over, "GOD is great--everything works together for good for his servant."

(Webster) Let them shout for joy, and be glad, that favor my righteous cause: yes, let them say continually, Let the LORD be magnified, who hath pleasure in the prosperity of his servant.

(WNT) New Testament only

(YLT) They sing and rejoice, who are desiring my righteousness, And they say continually, `Jehovah is magnified, Who is desiring the peace of His servant.'

(NIV) May those who delight in my vindication shout for joy and gladness; may they always say, "The LORD be exalted, who delights in the well-being of his servant."

(NASB) Let them shout for joy and rejoice, who favor my vindication; And let them say continually, "The LORD be magnified, Who delights in the prosperity of His servant."

(AMP) Let those who favor my righteous cause and have pleasure in my uprightness shout for joy and be glad and say continually, Let the Lord be magnified, Who takes pleasure in the prosperity of His servant.

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Stong's Hebrew Definition #H7965

שׁלם שׁלום

shâlôm shâlôm
shaw-lome', shaw-lome'
From H7999; safe, that is, (figuratively) well, happy, friendly; also (abstractly) welfare, that is, health, prosperity, peace: - X do, familiar, X fare, favour, + friend, X greet, (good) health, (X perfect, such as be at) peace (-able, -ably), prosper (-ity, -ous), rest, safe (-ly), salute, welfare, (X all is, be) well, X wholly.


Brown-Driver-Briggs' Hebrew Definition #H7965

שׁלם שׁלום

shâlôm
BDB Definition:
1) completeness, soundness, welfare, peace
1a) completeness (in number)
1b) safety, soundness (in body)
1c) welfare, health, prosperity
1d) peace, quiet, tranquillity, contentment
1e) peace, friendship
1e1) of human relationships
1e2) with God especially in covenant relationship
1f) peace (from war)
1g) peace (as adjective)
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from H7999
Same Word by TWOT Number: 2401a

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The Hebrew word that is translated "prosperity, peace, and well-being" is the word Shalom. The most basic translation into our present english today would be this, "nothing in your life broken and nothing in your life missing"...

I went to all of that detail to define the word prosperity to say this...

GOD GETS PLEASURE FROM THE PROSPERITY OF HIS SERVANTS!!!

Now the 1,000,000 dollar question is this...

WHY CAN'T IT BE PLEASING TO GOD FOR HIS CHILDREN TO LIKEWISE PROSPER AS DEFINED BY THE WORD, SHALOM???

Luchnia said:

True faith is seeing your words live and watching them move heaven on your behalf as was the case with the great men of faith as...Elisha...

Faith that is unfeigned with a lion-like courage to accept nothing of the enemy is the kind of faith that glorifies God. You can read about the God kind of faith in the book of Hebrews.

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I found this kind of interesting. Elisha is listed as a man of great faith, yet died of an illness. You can read about it in 2 Kings 13:14- "Now Elisha was suffering from the illness from which he died..."

look said:

WHY CAN'T IT BE PLEASING TO GOD FOR HIS CHILDREN TO LIKEWISE PROSPER AS DEFINED BY THE WORD, SHALOM???

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I never said it can't be.

I do think God prospers only certain people though. Anyone who's seen VH1's behind the music can tell you money isn't good for everyone. Luckily, God's will is greater than our own, and He chooses those who can serve Him best.

usadingo said:

I found this kind of interesting. Elisha is listed as a man of great faith, yet died of an illness. You can read about it in 2 Kings 13:14- "Now Elisha was suffering from the illness from which he died..."

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Yes, I think it shows that he was subject to the same vagaries as the rest of us. Did you ever notice, that a lot of great faith-filled men and women of God also sucumbed to being human? Have you ever hit a dry spell in your walk with God? Even Elijah hit a emotional bottom after outrunning a horse in a forty mile race! He feared that Jezebel would kill him! Later he went on to Heaven without dying, via a chariot of fire, to wait for his debut as one of the two witnesses to die in the Tribulation period...

However, a few of them did die in prime shape, nothing diminished, at the end of their lifespan. Moses, for example, died full of vigor at the age of 120 years. Smith Wigglesworth died in his eighties without illness. He just took his "earth suit" off and went to be with Jesus.

This probably explains why some Christians don't seek after their healing, they want to depart to go home.

Luchnia said:

USA, I get your point. Many use the Word for some sort of great personal gain by pretense. Since I was saved, I don't pray for a car, I just speak the Word only and walk it out to manifestation. Only way it fails is if I doubt the words, or not in line with the Word.

So far, it has happened every time. Same way with all the benefits of being a child of God. All the promises of God in Him, are "Yes" and "amen"....etc.

Word up!

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Amen!

The Holy Spirit put it on my heart to put this on here, I pray this is a Word for someone...

"The cares and anxieties of the world, and distractions of the age, and the pleasure and delight and false glamour and deceitfulness of riches, and the craving and passionate desire for other things creep in and choke and suffocate the Word, and it becomes fruitless." (Mark 4:19, Amp)

Did you know that the seemingly innocent things in your everyday life can suffocate your spiritual life if you allow it?

A friend of mine said the Lord told her in prayer one day that this nation had become a nation of maintenance men. "You have so many things to maintain," He told her. "You maintain your house. You maintain your car, your yard, your machines, your hair...."

It's true. You can become a maintainer of so many natural things that you don't have any time left to maintain your own spirit!

When you find yourself in that situation, it's time to simplify your life. I've had to learn that myself. Now when I'm considering something I think I need, I don't just count the cost in dollars and cents. I think about how much time it will take to maintain it. I check to see if I can spiritually afford it.

Second Timothy 2:4 says, "Don't get entangled in the affairs of this life." One thing I've learned over the last 25 years: Nothing is as important as spending time in prayer and in the Word with the Father. Absolutely nothing in my life is as vital as that.

Scripture Study: Mark 4:18-24

Blessings from our God and Lord Jesus...

test

Hey Hobart. . .when did you move to the Vatican City State?