Der Alter . . .
Originally Posted By: Bekah Ferguson
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With this belief, and particularily in non-Pentecostal denominations (denominations that deny the Baptism of the Holy Spirit), I've noticed a certain problem amongst Christians: the Holy Spirit is being perceived as the least of the three parties in the Trinity. Christians, including myself, were just not esteeming the Holy Spirit as equal to God and Jesus; most of us unknowingly.
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Der Alter's Response:
This statement is a base falsehood. It implies that ALL non-Pentecostal denominations, deny the Baptism of the Holy Spirit I am a member of a non-Pentecostal denomination I do not deny the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, but I disagree with many Pentecostals on what it is and how it manifests.
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Whenever you disagree with something I say, you say that my comment is "base falsehood". Why are my comments "base falsehood"? Because you disagree. If this is not a superior attitude, then I don't know what is.
Der Alter said:
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This statement also suggests that ALL non-Pentecostals consider the Holy Spirit least of the three parties I do not know of any Trinitarian denomination, school, or person that teaches this. All I have ever heard or read each person of the Trinity is equal.
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If I meant ALL non-Pentecostals - I would have said "ALL"! What I really said was that this problem is *more common* in non-Pentecostal Denominations. There's a big difference! You further IMPLY that because YOU have never heard of this - it must not be true.
Are you all-knowing, or something?!
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Originally Posted By: Bekah Ferguson
Take Benny Hinn, for example: (The wellknown "healer evangelist".) He believes that each "member of the Godhead" has his own body. i.e. God the Father has a body, Jesus the Son (obviously) has a body, and the Holy Spirit also has a body.
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Der Alter's response:
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No YOU take Benny Hinn, he is a Pentecostal and does NOT represent mainline Christianity. If you want to use an example, try Billy Graham, or Robert Schuller.
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I used Benny Hinn as an example to show that the Trinity Doctrine does in fact, lead some people to believe in three gods! It was a good example whether he represents mainline Christianity, or not.
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Originally Posted By: Bekah Ferguson
The third (and least common) professing Trinitarian literally believes in three Gods.
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Der Alter said:
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I have never heard of this. Do you have any thing like proof or evidence? This sounds like something some Oneness believer made up trying to make Trinitarians look like polytheists.
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Um . . . the Benny Hinn example . . . did you miss that?! I don't believe that Trinitarians are polytheists - but their doctrine sure leads to that kind of misconception!
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Originally Posted By: Bekah Ferguson
**First of all, before you begin this Bible Study, I just want to mention that it is very important that you use the King James Version for studying. (Recent translations, such as the New International Version, have strayed in their accuracy to the original language of the Bible - in fact, the N.I.V's new gender neutral translation of the Bible makes me all the more wary of the first New International Version)
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Der Alter said:
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This is a baseless accusation. First, there are over 800 words in the KJV that have completely changed meaning or are no longer used. For example, what does prevent mean in 1Th 4:15? Does it mean to stop? What does artillery mean in 1Sa 20:40. Does it mean cannons? What is a wimple, Isa 3:22? Did they have cars in the OT, because they had tires, Isa 3:18, Eze 24:23.
I have never seen the gender neutral NIV but the NIV and other translations, such as RSV, NAS, ASV, are very accurate translations. And there are many non-Pentecostals like myself who read both Biblical languages and do not rely on any translation.
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I don't have any problem with cross referencing other Bible translations. There are some words in the KJV that are old words, just like Shakespeare, but it doesn't make the translation irrelevant by any means! If you've never heard of the NIV Gender Neutral Translation, just do a random internet search and you'll find information.
I would like to point out something extremely interesting to you, Der Alter. Remember your theme, sugarstick verse - 1 John 5:7-8?
Let's refer to that once more. Here it is from the King James Version Bible (KJV):
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in the earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."
Now let's read the EXACT SAME VERSES from the New International Version Bible (NIV):
"For there are three that testify: the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement".
My goodness! The NIV actually removed the part of the version that said "The Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost".
I'm sorry, but I just don't trust such translations of the Bible! I will use them to cross-reference, but my main Bible is the KJV - it's a much older translation than the ones you listed, and I believe it is FAR MORE accurate than the NIV - that's why I use KJV for Bible Studies and that's why I bother to mention it on my website.
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Bekah Ferguson said:
From these Scripture verses, we see that in the beginning "the Word" was with God and was God. We then see that "the Word" became flesh and dwelt among us. In other words, God became flesh and dwelt among us.
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Der Alter said in response:
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In the second sentence, above, a quote from the Bible, it says the word was made flesh in the last sentence, without any explanation it says, the Word" became flesh Which is it made or became, it is not both.
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"Made" and "became". Both words mean relatively the same thing. If I painted a picture, I could say, "I made this painting". Or, I could say, "This blank paper became a painting". Whatever man! You're arguing with words. It doesn't matter - the Bible says, "the Word was made flesh". I used the word "made" and "became" - both mean that God came to earth as a man.
Der Alter - I hardly care what Catholics say about the Godhead. It doesn't prove or disprove anything.
I noticed a misconception of the Oneness of God:
We don't believe that God can't be Father and Son at the same time. We don't believe that He is the Father and then morphs into the Son and then morphs into the Holy Ghost! As 1 John 5:7 says, "These three are one"! They are One and the Same.
The only separation is that Jesus was a man but he was also God. That's it, that's the only separation between Jesus the Son and God the Father.