Now does everyone understand why the "right to refuse illegal orders" video was made?

[wing2000]

Then, is this (below) just Trump's imagination and is not inline with real life thinking nor any veracious events?

Designating Cartels And Other Organizations As Foreign Terrorist Organizations And Specially Designated Global Terrorists

DESIGNATING CARTELS AND OTHER ORGANIZATIONS AS FOREIGN TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS AND SPECIALLY DESIGNATED GLOBAL TERRORISTS By the authority vested in me as

www.whitehouse.gov

They are not terrorist. You can cite the White House all day but that doesn't change the fact that we have never defined drug traffickers as terrorsist.

 

[RDKirk]

I can appreciate that, too.
Nonetheless, I disagree that they are separable issues or separate issues. You can't decide to do something without simultaneously thinking through how to do it/how to be successful at it. Those are the exact elements which create the decision to NOT do something or to do something.

Yes, that's true to a degree, and I've spoken of it.

For instance, whoever made the decision to use only drones or an AC-130 gunship to do the shooting must have also made the decision not to have surface craft in the area to rescue survivors. That was an up-front decision not to rescue survivors and was a crime in itself under the LOAC.

But the fact is still that accountability will be separated between deciding to strike and the tactics of the strike. The man who actually pulled the trigger to release the missiles has one level of accountability for making the second strike (even if it was ordered from above), but is not accountable for the decision for the first strike.

 

[RDKirk]

I can sympathize with you, and I wish you the best in handling your displeasure. I know elders who felt the same way in 2012, and especially in 2016 when Obama-Biden Afghanistan bombings killed about 100 innocent civilians incl. children and women.

What stands most vividly in my mind are civilians killed during the Persian Gulf war in which I had a direct hand in the targeting decisions. That included the Amariyeh shelter in which 400 women and children were killed. There is a brief line that mentions me in the Wikipedia article...not by name, but I have to admit at once sentence, "That was my part." I was horrified the morning after watching Peter Arnett's reporting of the bodies being pulled from the rubble. I spent the next two days going over the previous imagery to see if there was anything we--or I--missed that should have tipped us off that the building was being used as a bomb shelter. It was certainly not anything I suspected.

Lord knows I despise General Glosson. Despised the liar then, despise the liar now.

 

[Factotum]

... that doesn't change the fact that we have never defined drug traffickers as terrorsist.

Only one (1) process in our nation can OFFICIALLY determine who are terrorists. Ten (10) months ago, that process first determined that those Venezuelan perps are in fact terrorists.

 

[Factotum]

What stands most vividly in my mind are civilians killed during the Persian Gulf war in which I had a direct hand in the targeting decisions. That included the Amariyeh shelter in which 400 women and children were killed. There is a brief line that mentions me in the Wikipedia article...not by name, but I have to admit at once sentence, "That was my part." I was horrified the morning after watching Peter Arnett's reporting of the bodies being pulled from the rubble. I spent the next two days going over the previous imagery to see if there was anything we--or I--missed that should have tipped us off that the building was being used as a bomb shelter. It was certainly not anything I suspected.

Lord knows I despise General Glosson. Despised the liar then, despise the liar now.

I wish you the best with your heavy heart. Your compassion in that moment, is comforting to know about.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[RDKirk]

I wish you the best with your heavy heart. Your compassion in that moment, is comforting to know about.

Thanks for sharing.

We do too much evil accidentally.

We can't tolerate doing evil deliberately.

 

[durangodawood]

Only one (1) process in our nation can OFFICIALLY determine who are terrorists. Ten (10) months ago, that process first determined that those Venezuelan perps are in fact terrorists.

An "official" determination can be what officials want, to suit their purposes.

A reasonable determination is another thing altogether.

 

[Factotum]

An "official" determination can be what officials want, to suit their purposes.

A reasonable determination is another thing altogether.

You mean like how a "reasonable" determination can be what officials want, to suit their purposes --while an official determination is another thing altogether?

We could use that to lay out the vast difference between the Trump DoD and the Biden DoD...

 

[durangodawood]

You mean like how a "reasonable" determination can be what officials want, to suit their purposes --while an official determination is another thing altogether?

No, I mean it the way I said it.

We could use that to lay out the vast difference between the Trump DoD and the Biden DoD...

Im not intending to expand the discussion to cover so much ground as that.

 

[wing2000]

Only one (1) process in our nation can OFFICIALLY determine who are terrorists. Ten (10) months ago, that process first determined that those Venezuelan perps are in fact terrorists.

Your opinion is noted.

 

[wing2000]

Terrorism: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

What political objective do drug traffickers have? I submit none.

 

[Always in His Presence]

The two men we're talking about weren't in a boat.
The two men were floundering around in the water.
They were hanging on to a wrecked boat.

Then another posts:

Looks like they were surrendering.
View attachment 374095

Hmmm... boat not hit - boat has two less engines -

First it was the evil Secretary of War - saying kill them all - never happened
Now it is a picture of a boat too small and not hit -

Uh, huh......

 

[Bradskii]

Then another posts:

Hmmm... boat not hit - boat has two less engines -

First it was the evil Secretary of War - saying kill them all - never happened
Now it is a picture of a boat too small and not hit -

Uh, huh......

Are you treating that picture seriously? Good grief, do you know nothing about the matter at all? Plainly you don't, so I must ask why on earth you have involved yourself in a thread about a situation that you seem to know nothing about.

All you've done is confirm that you are a person who has no qualms about killing people who are suspected of smuggling drugs. And killing them in direct violation of the stated rules of engagement and against everything we'd describe as civilised behaviour. It was illegal and immoral in the extreme. But as I've said, that's the world in which it appears you want to live. This is not an ugly incident in a dystopian novel about the collapse of a decent society. It's now how the US conducts itself.

And heaven help us, your attitude is 'Bring it on'.

 

[Factotum]

Terrorism: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

What political objective do drug traffickers have? I submit none.

I don't know. I hope it wasn't the same political aims being pursued inside of the World Trade Center on 11sep2001... are you aware of what political aims those "terrorists" might have been pursuing in the WTC that day?

ALSO... when Venezuelen drug traffickers networking with cartels use violence and intimidation onto migrants entering the USA, is that not them being terrorists? If not, what nomenclature do you apply to them for burdening our Homeland with their criminality onto migrants?

 

[Factotum]

Your opinion is noted.

Thanks, but I can't take credit for those facts. lol

You gotta credit Congressional Acts, like IRTPA'04 and USAPA'01...

 

[Factotum]

Uh, huh......

 

[Always in His Presence]

Looks like they were surrendering.
View attachment 374095

Love AI of hate AI - here is the truth behind this picture:

This image shows suspected drug smugglers surrendering aboard their boat in the Pacific Ocean on June 19, 2012.
The engines of their fleeing boat were disabled by a U.S. Coast Guard gunner firing from a helicopter, after which the individuals raised their hands in the air. The photo was released by the U.S. Navy and the incident has been a subject of discussion regarding the rules of engagement for such interdictions.

Wrong year - wrong decade - wrong body of water and wrong military force.

How embarrassing

 

[Bradskii]

This image shows suspected drug smugglers surrendering aboard their boat in the Pacific Ocean on June 19, 2012.
The engines of their fleeing boat were disabled by a U.S. Coast Guard gunner firing from a helicopter, after which the individuals raised their hands in the air.

Which will do nicely to show how far you've fallen. If that boat was spotted this week and whoever was in charge said that they were going to disable it, board it and arrest the two men, you'd say no. You'd demand that they be summarily executed. And if you found an hour later that they'd survived after the boat was destroyed then you'd order another strike to kill them.

How some people get to this point I'm not really sure. This ain't politics anymore. This isn't arguing about tariffs or immigration quotas. This is murder.

 

[Gene2memE]

That was a very clever thing to do by Hegseth. When you consider our nation's negligent National Security and DoD objectives, 2021-'24.

Yep, you want your military lawyers bowing to the political tides and ideology of whoever happens to be in power at the time and not providing neutral, fact-based, politically-independent legal advice. Because that has no possibility whatsoever of boomeranging on anyone. And the people who are in power now are always going to be in power. So there will be no see-sawing of legal interpretations. And no consequences!

 

[Factotum]

Yep, you want your military lawyers bowing to the political tides and ideology of whoever happens to be in power at the time and not providing neutral, fact-based, politically-independent legal advice. Because that has no possibility whatsoever of boomeranging on anyone. And the people who are in power now are always going to be in power. So there will be no see-sawing of legal interpretations. And no consequences!

Yep, you want your Obama DoD papal infallibility quotient made ineligible for the Trump DoD.