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Refuting Losing Salvation!

WordSword

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Almost all the verses I quoted of the Law of God including the original Text James2:11 is NT.
I believe the Law for the Jews passed away "when all was fulfilled" by the Lord Jesus (Mat 5:18); when He said, "It is finished" (Jhn 19:30), He fulfilled all the Law. Jesus and His disciples taught the Law until His ascension!

The Law was for the Jews and nobody else. Even after His ascension I believe the Jews continued in the law until Rome destroyed the second Temple (40 years after His ascension), after which there could be no more sacrifices nor any ceremonies. The Jews no longer have a Covenant with God but are to receive a "New Covenant" latter (Jer 31:31-33; Eze 36:24-27). This Covenant will still involve new "statutes, judgments, ordinances and Law.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I believe the Law for the Jews passed away "when all was fulfilled" by the Lord Jesus (Mat 5:18); when He said, "It is finished" (Jhn 19:30), He fulfilled all the Law. Jesus and His disciples taught the Law until His ascension!

The Law was for the Jews and nobody else. Even after His ascension I believe the Jews continued in the law until Rome destroyed the second Temple (40 years after His ascension), after which there could be no more sacrifices nor any ceremonies. The Jews no longer have a Covenant with God but are to receive a "New Covenant" latter (Jer 31:31-33; Eze 36:24-27). This Covenant will still involve new "statutes, judgments, ordinances and Law.
Jesus did fulfill the Law, He was prophesized to magnified it Isa 42:21 which means makes larger, not smaller and He gave examples of this right from the Ten Commandments Mat5:19-30 relating with thoughts of anger that lead up to breaking the commandment of thou shalt not murder. If our heart is changed, the actions would be changed and thou shalt not murder would be kept. I find it odd that Jesus would come so we can now worship other gods or murder our neighbor. This is a man-made teaching, nothing Jesus taught, why He said not to break the least of these commandments Mat5:19 and doing so I would consider His warning because it shows our heart is still in the flesh Rom8:7-8 instead of walking and abiding in Him John15:10 John14:15-18

The New Covenant is the location of His Laws changing- from tablets of stone (Ten Commandments Deut4:13) to tablets of the heart 2Cor3:3 Heb8:10 God keeping His promise of not altering His words Psa89:34 not a jot or tittle Mat5:18 God’s Laws are not the issue they are perfect Psa19:7 and holy Rom7:12 the issue is man and our harden heart, rebelling against the law of God. Rom 8:7-8 Heb3:7-19. Why the NC is established on better promises Heb 8:6 not all new laws, it has God’s law Heb8:10 just placed in the NC believers heart. We need to enter into His covenant promise through faith, having our Fathers Laws written in our heart obeying Him through faith and love Exo20:6 John14:15 which reconciles us Rev22:14
 
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WordSword

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Jesus did fulfill the Law, He was prophesized to magnified it Isa 42:21 which means makes larger, not smaller and He gave examples of this right from the Ten Commandments Mat 5:19-30
Hi SB! I like a lot of what you said, but I think we should realize what is meant by "till all be fulfilled"! Jesus is teaching the law to Jews who were under the law. No other nationality will ever be under the law, not even the new law which will be in their next new covenant later, beginning with the Millennial Kingdom. Mat 5:20 is probably one of the passages that demonstrates the law most. The righteousness of Christians far exceeds the law because theirs is Christ's righteousness.

Jesus only taught the Jews because He was sent only to the Jews (Mat 15:24); His Apostles and disciples, esp. Paul, taught the Gentiles concerning Christianity. Eph 2:15 shows how the Lord Jesus has made Jews and Gentiles as one people in Christ. This involves the Jews who, with the Gentiles believe in Christ.

The Jews that love and believe in God but not yet in Christ inherit the New Earth; and the Christians inherit the New Heaven!
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Hi WS!
I like a lot of what you said,
I am glad we can agree on some things that's always a good start. :)
but I think we should realize what is meant by "till all be fulfilled"! Jesus is teaching the law to Jews who were under the law. No other nationality will ever be under the law, not even the new law which will be in their next new covenant later, beginning with the Millennial Kingdom. Mat 5:20 is probably one of the passages that demonstrates the law most. The righteousness of Christians far exceeds the law because theirs is Christ's righteousness.
Lets actually look at these verses a little closer. I think this is a very important teaching of Jesus.


Mat 5:17Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

What was prophesied on the law that Jesus is fulfilling?

Isa 42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

The Greek word here for magnify means to make larger or greater. Jesus just said plainly He did not come to destroy the law or prophets but to fulfill.

18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one [b]jot or one [c]tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

There is nothing here that says "Jesus is teaching the law to Jews who were under the law." and I am a big believer of not adding to His Word but allowing Him to explain, especially when its Jesus speaking directly.

Jesus said plainly He did not come to destroy the law but was predicted He would make His laws greater, not smaller and not a jot or tittle shall pass from the law until ALL is fulfilled.

1. Heaven and earth have to pass (which has not happened)
2. Not all is fulfilled like these prophecies that Jesus plainly said He did not come to destroy


Isa 25:8
he will swallow up death forever.
The Sovereign Lord will wipe away the tears
from all faces;
he will remove his people’s disgrace
from all the earth.
The Lord has spoken.

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

So not all is fulfilled until heaven and earth pass, Jesus comes in the clouds, judgement is served John12:48 Jesus makes a New Heaven and New Earth Isa66:22-23

So therefore:

19 Whoever (not just Jews- everyone) therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

Were the Pharisees keeping the commandments of God? No Jesus condemned them because they laid aside the commandments of God in lieu of man-made commandments and traditions and Jesus said in doing so they made the word of God of no effect by their traditions Mat 15:3-14 Mark7:7-13 so following in their footsteps Jesus said by no means will one enter into heaven

And if you keep reading in this passage you will see Jesus magnifying His laws using two of the Ten Commandments as examples but they apply to all of them- not breaking the least of these commandments Mat5:19 and relates anger in our heart is what leads up to sin and if our heart is changed, the outward part would be changed and thou shalt not murder would be kept Mat5:19-30


Jesus only taught the Jews because He was sent only to the Jews (Mat 15:24);
This is a misunderstanding of what Israel means. It means God's sons. Exo4:22 Are we not all called to be sons and daughters of God? It was never meant to be only literal. God shows no partiality Acts 10:34 Romans 2:11

Jesus is everyone's example to follow, not just Jews 1 John2:6 1 Peter 2:21-22 and Jesus is the way John14:6 and I understand how convenient it would be not to have to follow His teachings, but its an error in human teaching, not coming from God's Word.


His Apostles and disciples, esp. Paul, taught the Gentiles concerning Christianity. Eph 2:15 shows how the Lord Jesus has made Jews and Gentiles as one people in Christ. This involves the Jews who, with the Gentiles believe in Christ.
Amen. There is only one people in Christ and God's people keep God's commandments Rev14:12 His version because no one can change a jot or tittle of the Testimony of God Exo31:18 Psa89:34 Deut4:13
The Jews that love and believe in God but not yet in Christ inherit the New Earth; and the Christians inherit the New Heaven!
No Scripture says this. There are only two groups, the saved and the lost. Rev 20 Rev22:14-15
 
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WordSword

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Hi WS!

I am glad we can agree on some things that's always a good start. :)

Lets actually look at these verses a little closer. I think this is a very important teaching of Jesus.


Mat 5:17Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

What was prophesied on the law that Jesus is fulfilling?
Jesus came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets, that is, all the Prophecies that concerned Him and the Law.

"Jesus came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets, which refers to the entire Old Testament. This means he completed the purpose of the law by embodying its true meaning and achieving what it pointed towards, particularly in terms of salvation and reconciliation with God." - cbtseminary.org

Jesus came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets, meaning His purpose was to bring the Old Testament scriptures to completion through His life, teachings, and sacrificial death. This fulfillment involves perfectly obeying the law, embodying the prophetic messages, and providing a way for believers to be saved from their sins through His sacrifice. - Google AI
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Jesus came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets, that is, all the Prophecies that concerned Him and the Law.

"Jesus came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets, which refers to the entire Old Testament. This means he completed the purpose of the law by embodying its true meaning and achieving what it pointed towards, particularly in terms of salvation and reconciliation with God." - cbtseminary.org

Jesus came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets, meaning His purpose was to bring the Old Testament scriptures to completion through His life, teachings, and sacrificial death. This fulfillment involves perfectly obeying the law, embodying the prophetic messages, and providing a way for believers to be saved from their sins through His sacrifice. - Google AI
Why are you using other sources instead of the words of Jesus Christ, as if they mean more than what Jesus Himself said? He said not a jot or tittle shall pass from His laws and not to break the least of these commandments. Mat5:18-19 destroying prophecies of His second coming that has yet to be fulfilled that He just said He did not come to destroy. Mat5:17 Why would Jesus fulfilling His laws means we can go vain His holy name or steal from our neighbor or do the exact opposite of what Jesus just said. I would consider prayerfully reading more Scripture and less commentaries made from man. We have this warning in Scripture if anyone teaches this Isa8:20 so we won’t be deceived. Jesus in His own words said when we lay aside the commandment of God again quoting from the Ten Commandments, we are making the word of God of no effect Mat15:3-14 Mark7:7-13. It sad people gloss over His teachings as if they are made for “other people” and His teachings and life as our example are not for us, only His death, what He can do for us, not what He asks of us and showed us how to do so. 1 John2:6 1 Peter 2:21-22 Heb4:15 It’s sad but what was predicted 2 Tim4:3-4
 
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WordSword

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Why are you using other sources instead of the words of Jesus Christ, as if they mean more than what Jesus Himself said? He said not a jot or tittle shall pass from His laws and not to break the least of these commandments. Mat5:18-19
I think we have a difference of opinion with "till all is fulfilled." Everything Jesus did completed the Law, because He was still teaching the law while He was teaching Grace.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I think we have a difference of opinion with "till all is fulfilled." Everything Jesus did completed the Law, because He was still teaching the law while He was teaching Grace.
If He completed the law as if to say because He "completed" we do not need to keep it, why would He say this in the very next verse?

Mat5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. According to the very next verse least in heaven is not there.

Can you please tell me when this was completed?

Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.


Jesus just said He did not come to destroy the law or prophets and heaven and earth shall pass away before a jot or tittle of the law shall pass util ALL is fulfilled. Heaven and earth are still here therefore not a jot or tittle of the law shall pass and therefor whoever breaks the least of these commandments (quoting from the Ten) shall me least in heaven.

God does not want us to sin and break His commandments, this teaching is not coming from God. Isa8:20 1John3:8 Jesus said if you love Me, keep My commandments John14:15 He came to magnify His laws Isa42:21, not destroy. Mat5:17
 
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WordSword

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If He completed the law as if to say because He "completed" we do not need to keep it
Because He kept it for the Jews, which nobody could do. Gentiles Christians are never under the Law but under Grace!

why would He say this in the very next verse?
Mat5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Jesus was still teaching the Law at that time. I believe until the Temple was destroyed 40 years after His ascension the law was still in force. But with no more Temple there could be no more law. Also, one cannot keep the law and Grace.
Can you please tell me when this was completed?
His death "finished" all the OT prophecies concerning His expiation for our sins (Jhn 19:30). His death was our condemnation; His Life and ascension is our growth in our faith in Him (Eph 4:15).
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Because He kept it for the Jews, which nobody could do. Gentiles Christians are never under the Law but under Grace!
Where does it say this in this passage? Jesus said "Whoever" not Jews.
Jesus was still teaching the Law at that time. I believe until the Temple was destroyed 40 years after His ascension the law was still in force. But with no more Temple there could be no more law. Also, one cannot keep the law and Grace.
Where does it say we are not supposed to keep God's laws- its kept by God's faithful until He returns Rev14:12 Rev22:14 Just as Jesus said Mat5:17-30 Grace does not mean one can sin Rom6:1-4 and sin is breaking God's laws 1John3:4 James 2:11
His death "finished" all the OT prophecies concerning His expiation for our sins (Jhn 19:30). His death was our condemnation; His Life and ascension is our growth in our faith in Him (Eph 4:15).
So forget the OT prophecies of His Second Coming that Jesus said He did no come to destroy? I believe you are reading what you want into these verses instead of just allowing God to speak for Himself.
 
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