Paul himself had evil present with him, Romans 7:21, never claimed to be sinless, Romans 3:9 and even outright stated he had a messenger of Satan in his own flesh, 2 Cor. 12:7, inclusive of temptation in his flesh, Gal. 4:14. Paul also never exempted himself from any Word of God, as most are prone to do today.
Again, you throw up a strawman argument about claiming I am suggesting, some people are sinless, which I never even suggested.
A lot is made of the fact Paul switched to the present tense in these verses, but was there a reason that the Roman reader to pick up on this switch and better understand what Paul was saying? We are reading other peoples mail to Romans in Rome during the first century, so what would be the best way to communicate a huge victory over sin to them?
When Mark describes in his Gospel is Christ’s great battle with a climatic victory being Christ rising, he wrote it in the “historic present tense”. Supporting the idea Mark was in Rome at the time.
What Paul is describing in Romans 7: 14-24 is a great battle and final climatic victory over sin in the “historic present tense”.
Sin has purpose for the nonbeliever, but what “purpose” does it have in the believer life?
When Deity dwelled unquenched in a human (Christ) it did not sin, so does deity dwell within Christians, so the problem is really the quenching of the Spirit?
On every major street corner in Rome were monuments to some great Roman victory, some parts of these monuments are in museums today and below each is given an exciting climatic description of the battle in the “historic present tense”. This was the same description carried by messengers sent out by the general over the Roman Empire, after a great victory.
Similar to this Roman section on (the war and victory over sin) is Mark’s whole Gospel of Christ’s war against satan’s follows of this world”.
As far as Ro. 7: 14-24
The Gospel of Mark was mimicking the messages that were sent out by the Roman generals after winning a great battle. These messages went with messengers to dramatically present the battle with the victory at the end, to the cheers of the crowd. They were always in the present tense and we have some copies that were written in stone under the battle monuments that were spread throughout Rome. The Gospel of Mark is written in the style of these Victory Messages sent by the Roman General to the Roman Empire and Mark’s is very much a victory message. Do you think, Paul in keep with the Roman culture of the day, would have written His victorious battle over sin in the present tense to the Romans in Rome?
It is called the “historic present tense”, by scholars and would fit what Paul was saying to the Romans.
This topic and the use of Romans 7: 14-24 come up a lot and a lot has been written on it.
The context helps and you need to address these questions:
1. When did Paul learn about “coveting”?
2. When did this problem start for Paul?
3. Does Paul continue in the misery and what would relief this misery?
4. Is “just being forgiven” a good solution to the problem?
5. When did Paul obtain the solution?
The answer to the problem of sinning while here on earth is solved with Romans chapter 8 and the indwelling holy Spirit.
We are all being temped by sin, but True Christians have the indwelling Holy Spirit to overcome those temptations. Ro. 3:9
2 Cor. 12:7 talks about the help he receives from satan’s thorn in the flesh Paul was given, but that is not satan himself living in Paul.
Gal. 4: 14 “and even though my illness was a trial to you, you did not treat me with contempt or scorn. Instead, you welcomed me as if I were an angel of God, as if I were Christ Jesus himself.”
We all get sick sometimes while on earth, but that can help us.
It really shouldn't be all that hard to figure out, even without scriptures, that we are tempted often, and internally, in effect blindsided from out of nowhere, and not from our own minds, but in mind nevertheless.
1 Cor. 10: 13 No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.
These are not hard observations by either scripture or by experience. We ALL have an evil conscience.
We can use our failures of the past as part of our witness, since we are no longer the same person.
And we ALL have adversaries that are unseen. This really should be common knowledge among believers, not this lying "I am exempt" nonsense that most carry. It's really not even them making such statements. They are statements under the influences.
All mature adults have sinned in the past, but the indwelling Spirit does not sin, but we can quench the Spirit and sin.
God bound everyone to disobedience...Romans 11:32 and that disobedience is an unseen spiritual adversary, Eph. 2:2
These are, in essence the very same TWO VESSELS that Paul writes of in Romans 9, in ONE LUMP Paul termed "me."
Romans 9
Paul uses two teaching methods throughout Romans even secular philosophy classes will use Romans as the best example of these methods. Paul does an excellent job of building one premise on the previous premises to develop his final conclusions. Paul uses an ancient form of rhetoric known as diatribe (imaginary debate) asking questions and most of the time giving a strong “By no means” and then goes on to explain “why not”. Paul’s method goes beyond just a general diatribe and follows closely to the diatribes used in the individual laments in the Psalms and throughout the Old Testament, which the Jewish Christians would have known extensively. These “questions or comments” are given by an “imaginary” student making it more a dialog with the readers (students) and not just a “sermon”.
The main topic repeated extensively in Romans is the division in the Christian house churches in Rome between the Jews and Gentile Christians. You can just look up how many times Jews and gentiles are referred to see this as a huge issue.
The main question (a diatribe question) in Romans 9 Paul addresses is God being fair or just Rms. 9: 14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all!
This will take some explaining, since just prior in Romans 9, Paul went over some history of God’s dealings with the Israelites that sounds very “unjust” like “loving Jacob and hating Esau” before they were born, but remember in all of Paul’s diatribes he begins before, just after or before and just after with strong support for the wrong answer (this makes it more of a debate and giving the opposition the first shot as done in all diatribes).
Who in Rome would be having a “problem” with God choosing to work with Isaac and Jacob instead of Ishmael and Esau? Would the Jewish Christian have a problem with this or would it be the Gentile Christians?
If God treaded you as privileged and special would you have a problem or would you have a problem if you were treated seemingly as common and others were treated with honor for no apparent reason?
This is the issue and Paul will explain over the rest of Romans 9-11.
Paul is specific with the issue Rms. 9: 19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?”
Who is the “one of you” is this Jewish Christian (elect) or Gentile Christian (elect) or is this “non-elect” individual (this “letter” is written to Christians and not non-Christians)?
Can Jews say they cannot be blamed for failing in their honored position or would it be the Gentiles that would say they cannot be blamed since they were not in the honored position?
Is it really significant when it comes to what really counts, if you are born a gentile or Jew in first century Rome?
Are there issues and problems with being a first century Jew and was this a problem for Paul?
The Jews were created in a special honorable position that would bring forth the Messiah and everyone else was common in comparison (the Gentiles).
How do we know Paul is specifically addressing the Jew/Gentile issue? Rms. 9: 30 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. 32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone.
Paul is showing from the position of being made “common” vessels by God the Gentiles had an advantage over the born Israelites (vessels of honor) that had the Law, since the Law became a stumbling stone to them. They both needed faith to rely on God’s Love to forgive them.
Without going into the details of Romans 9-11 we conclude with this diatribe question: Romans 11: 11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring!
The common vessels (gentiles) and the vessels of honor (Jews) are equal individually in what is really significant when it comes to salvation, so God is not being unjust or unfair with either group.
If there is still a question about who is being addressed in this section of Rms. 9-11, Paul tells us: Rms. 11: 13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them.
Rm 9: 22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction?
This verse is not saying all the “vessels” created for a “common purpose” were created for destruction (they were not made from the start by the Potter “clay pigeons”). Everything that leaves the potter’s shop is of great quality. Those vessels for destruction can come from either the common group or the honor group, but God is being patient with them that will eventually be destroyed. The vessels God does develop great wrath against, will be readied for destruction, but how did they become worthy of destruction since they left the potter’s shop with his mark on them? Any vessel (honorable or common) that becomes damaged is not worthy of the potter’s signature and He would want it destroyed.
To understand this as Common vessels and special vessels look at the same idea using the same Greek words of Paul in 2 Tim 2: 20. There Paul even points out the common can become the honored vessel.
2 Tim. 2: 20 In a large house there are articles not only of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay; some are for special purposes and some for common use. 21 Those who cleanse themselves from the latter will be instruments for special purposes, made holy, useful to the Master and prepared to do any good work.
Important to note is the fact: the dishonorable vessel can cleanse themselves and become vessels of honor.
That is a short explanation, since you really need to study all of Romans especially chapters 9, 10 and 11. Also please look at individual laments in the Psalms and diatribes in general, I really cut those short
It was your used translation that used the term "some people." That doesn't exist in the KJV or other translations.
ALL parables consist of 3 parties: God/people and the devil
The parable is The Word. Luke 8:11
Most often these terms are rightfully stated as "these" and "they. No one is exempt from Mark 4:15 OR the remaining parts of the parables because ---> ALL people are God's children bound with our adversaries in our flesh. It's also the identical principle spoken of by Paul in Gal. 4:21-29, and many other places throughout the scriptures.
The content has four very different soils: hard packed down, rocky, thorny and fertile and they all cannot be the same.
God does really want people to understand, but likewise the devils will never understand and to them, they will neither understand and they will resist, obfuscate, disobey every single time.
Since in the end there will be no harm, no foul to people, it all works out and we will have served His Purposes for us in these events of our lives.
WOW! We have no objective for spending time here on earth.
That is only what you'd prefer it to say. I really don't see how anyone can honestly come to that conclusion if they believe Jesus, that man shall LIVE by EVERY WORD of God.
Jesus is not talking about one soil, but four different soils.
Your position has obviously both rejected personal applicability of Mark 4:15 and Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4 and Deut. 8:3
Again, no blame to you as a person. It's really meant to happen this way
You cannot defend your interpretation as being the most likely alternative.
