Are the Jews Israel, or is the church Israel? Or does it depend on the context of the passage?

[Guojing]

I don’t believe that Paul and James are in tension at all and told you why in my last post. Are you having problems reading my posts?

You could have said yes, when I asked you this question initially Are the Jews Israel, or is the church Israel? Or does it depend on the context of the passage?

Instead, you brought in your "acts 21 cannot happen today" which was not part of the question.

Okay, so at least we got your yes to my question.

It was indeed before the temple was destroyed but Acts speaks about the very early church and about Paul’s journeys. The writing of the book if Acts is estimated at between 55 and 65ad but the events happened much earlier. Paul’s journeys to plant churches began much earlier around the mid to late 30’s and continued into the early to the middle 40’s. The fact that Paul was returning from Ephesus probably dates Acts 21 somewhere in the early 40’s not the late 50’s.

When exactly Acts 21:18-25 happened is not important, so long as you accept that it was before AD 70.

 

[Hentenza]

You could have said yes, when I asked you this question initially Are the Jews Israel, or is the church Israel? Or does it depend on the context of the passage?

Instead, you brought in your "acts 21 cannot happen today" which was not part of the question.

Okay, so at least we got your yes to my question.

Not a yes to your question. I already explained that which apparently you are having problems understanding.

When exactly Acts 21:18-25 happened is not important, so long as you accept that it was before AD 70.

It was before 70 ad. So how does that help your argument?

 

[Guojing]

Not a yes to your question. I already explained that which apparently you are having problems understanding.

You are saying that James and Paul would be in tension, which to you will be impossible, if one were to understand Acts 21:18-25 literally.

Isn't that saying "Yes, the Acts 21:18-25 words cannot be therefore understood in their literal meaning"?

 

[Hentenza]

You are saying that James and Paul would be in tension, which to you will be impossible, if one were to understand Acts 21:18-25 literally.

Isn't that saying "Yes, the Acts 21:18-25 words cannot be therefore understood in their literal meaning"?

I have explained this in many of my posts. You are obviously having problems understanding what I have posted. I would suggest that you go back and read my posts again.

 

[Guojing]

I have explained this in many of my posts. You are obviously having problems understanding what I have posted. I would suggest that you go back and read my posts again.

You could have just replied with a "Yes, that was my answer to your question."

I would have replied with a thanks, and we can finally move on.

 

[Hentenza]

You could have just replied with a "Yes, that was my answer to your question."

I would have replied with a thanks, and we can finally move on.

My brother I don’t like to play games. I have engaged you argument but you have not responded other than to demand a yes or no answer. I have explained multiple times that the question is not a yes or no answer but you continue to demand that. It’s just not going to happen so yes, let’s just move on.

 

[CLEEB]

Soverigngrace has made a definitive reply. The scriptures he points out, should be the deciding factor.
However scriptural truths do not seem the sway those who are locked into false theories.

That the faithful Christian peoples are the Israelites of God is true, is the fact of there being only One people of God and the rest of the world, including apostate Jews are heathen ungodly trash, to be disposed of. Romans 9:22
Exactly as many Prophesies tell us and only a Christian remnant of Judah, will survive.

Continuing to believe and promote a general Jewish Redemption, coupled with the sci-fi 'rapture to heaven' crazy idea, puts people at risk of severe Judgment. 2 Peter 2:1-22

From what I gather there are two Israel’s, one carnal, one spiritual. Ancient Israel is GODS elect under the law, the church is GODS election according to grace. Romans 11:5 Even though GOD divorced carnal Israel HE has not forgotten HIS promise to Abraham concerning them. The church did not replace carnal Israel because the olive trees roots predated both Israel and the law. The promises to the church are different than to carnal Israel. Just compare the blessings given to carnal Israel in Deuteronomy to those blessings given to the church which has better promises. Hebrews 8:6 Hebrews 7:22 2 Corinthians 3:6 The differences are obvious.

 

[keras]

From what I gather there are two Israel’s, one carnal, one spiritual. Ancient Israel is GODS elect under the law, the church is GODS election according to grace. Romans 11:5 Even though GOD divorced carnal Israel HE has not forgotten HIS promise to Abraham concerning them. The church did not replace carnal Israel because the olive trees roots predated both Israel and the law. The promises to the church are different than to carnal Israel. Just compare the blessings given to carnal Israel in Deuteronomy to those blessings given to the church which has better promises. Hebrews 8:6 Hebrews 7:22 2 Corinthians 3:6 The differences are obvious.

God has no future blessings or promises to the people who claim to be Israel. Jesus informs us who they belong to; Revelation 2:9b
All -Jew and Gentile become the Spiritual descendants of the Patriarchs, by accepting Jesus. Galatians 3:23-29

 

[CLEEB]

God has no future blessings or promises to the people who claim to be Israel. Jesus informs us who they belong to; Revelation 2:9b
All -Jew and Gentile become the Spiritual descendants of the Patriarchs, by accepting Jesus. Galatians 3:23-29

I am aware that in the population of modern day Israel has many are Khazars . The number of true descendents of the ancient nation is unknown to me. Have you considered that in the second resurrection GOD will raise up the nation to flesh again and in that day keep HIS promise to Abraham regarding carnal Israel ? Paul did say that GOD has not written off these people but at some future time they can be grafted back into the olive tree if the do not remain in unbelief. Ezekiel 36 describes this time of restoration. The physical resurrection of carnal Israel may be described in Ezekiel 37 Since it is said that David will be king over them this must be at a future time after David’s resurrection. Romans 11:11-15 speaks of this life from the dead in the second resurrection. When discussing prophecy we should know that prophecy is like being in a dark room with very little light but as the light level increases more can be known. Doctrine is prophecy that has been fulfilled, like the prophecy of the first advent is now doctrine. Until more light shines or as more things are fulfilled the pieces will come together. This is one reason why Jesus told us to watch and we watch for the signs he gave us to come to pass. We also hear the words of the prophets and Apostles about these things. We must be careful to not go beyond what has been written.

 

[Jan001]

I am aware that in the population of modern day Israel has many are Khazars . The number of true descendents of the ancient nation is unknown to me. Have you considered that in the second resurrection GOD will raise up the nation to flesh again and in that day keep HIS promise to Abraham regarding carnal Israel ? Paul did say that GOD has not written off these people but at some future time they can be grafted back into the olive tree if the do not remain in unbelief. Ezekiel 36 describes this time of restoration. The physical resurrection of carnal Israel may be described in Ezekiel 37 Since it is said that David will be king over them this must be at a future time after David’s resurrection. Romans 11:11-15 speaks of this life from the dead in the second resurrection. When discussing prophecy we should know that prophecy is like being in a dark room with very little light but as the light level increases more can be known. Doctrine is prophecy that has been fulfilled, like the prophecy of the first advent is now doctrine. Until more light shines or as more things are fulfilled the pieces will come together. This is one reason why Jesus told us to watch and we watch for the signs he gave us to come to pass. We also hear the words of the prophets and Apostles about these things. We must be careful to not go beyond what has been written.

The judgment of the sheep and goats, (white throne judgment) will begin shortly after the second resurrection. This second resurrection will be at the end of time when Jesus descends to earth with his angels and saints. These saints receive their resurrected bodies before they accompany Jesus to earth. The people still on earth will receive their resurrected bodies as they rise to meet Jesus in the air. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18, 1 Corinthians 15:51-54

The unbelieving Jews have already had 2000 years to become Christians. Many of the remnant Jews have become Christians during this time period. More will come into the Church before Jesus' second coming.

David's earthly kingship ended when he died. Jesus Christ is now king and he will be king forever in heaven and on earth. Revelation 1:4-5