Zions New Children

[Guojing]

Please demonstrate that "Israel" as such went "Oh yeah, here's our Messiah, right on time!?"
And they rejected Jesus - generally speaking.
Otherwise, why did Jesus weep over Jerusalem?

They expected the Messiah to be one of power, one that will free them from Roman rule at that time.

Jesus at his first coming did not fulfill that expectation. That is why they rejected Jesus as the promised Messiah.

That does not mean they were not expecting God to send one.

Think of Superman the movie, that is probably what the average Jew was expecting their Messiah to be, at his first coming.

Then you're reading it into Peter, when he's actually quoting Joel!

Of course he is quoting Joel, I am just asking you a simple question, what does Acts 2:16-21 says literally?

Does it make sense knowing that the cross was Daniel's 69th week?

If you don't want to do that, we can move on.

 

[Guojing]

What is the point you are trying to make, and how does it relate to escahtology?

When you know Daniel's 70th week is coming anytime, you know that the less money and possessions you have of your own, the less likely you will be tempted to take the Mark of the Beast.

Now when you read James 5:1-6, you understand exactly what he is trying to say, why he is mocking the rich for trusting their money and not God.

 

[Tom8907]

Yes. Everyone needs to believe in the Gospel of Christ, to be saved, biological Jews included.

Under the new covenant, we are his chosen people.

 

[eclipsenow]

Of course he is quoting Joel, I am just asking you a simple question, what does Acts 2:16-21 says literally?

And again, Apocalyptic Symbolism is not literal, it's literary.

Otherwise I agree with a LOT of what you're saying - especially with their vision of their military leader also being the "Day of the Lord". The OT often mixed images of their military leader and salvation together, and yet there was also the suffering servant images.
So I really empathise with those who didn't get it.

If you don't want to do that, we can move on.

So you're reading a certain interpretation of Daniel 9 and assuming it into Peter's mind via Joel.

Problem is - that sort of cosmic language often describes the fall of ancient empires - not just one prophecy in Daniel 9!

Isaiah 13:10​

"For the stars of heaven and their constellations will not give their light. The rising sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light."

It's similar language - and speaks of the judgement of Babylon and her celestial gods.

Ezekiel 32:7-8​

Pharoah and Egypt!

"When I extinguish you, I will cover the heavens and darken their stars; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon will not give its light."

Isaiah 34:4​

"All the stars of heaven will be dissolved. The skies will be rolled up like a scroll..."
It's about Edom - but it's also a sort of double-prophecy that hints at how completely universal God's judgement could become.
Falling stars often represent earthly rulers, armies, and states.
Their collapse is as dramatic as stars falling from the heavens.

Amos 8:9 - Israel!​

Assyria will take out the Northern Kingdom of Israel.
"And on that day,' declares the Lord God, 'I will make the sun go down at noon and darken the earth in broad daylight.'"
Noon = daylight = safety.
Right when they expect safety, disaster would come.

What does Acts say?

It's the same language of celestial upset and darkness to represent turmoil and the smoke of war below - how the sun and moon look through the awfulness of wartime smoke.

Acts 2:

I will show wonders in the heavens above
and signs on the earth below,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
20 The sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood
before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord.
21 And everyone who calls
on the name of the Lord will be saved.’


So again, what evidence do you have that the Apostles were thinking of Daniel 9 specifically?

 

[keras]

Under the new covenant, we are his chosen people.

Correct:
1 Peter 2:9-10 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a dedicated nation....claimed by God as His own......
Revelation 5:9-10 ,,,,by the blood of Jesus, bought for God, peoples from every tribe, race, nation and language.......and they shall reign on earth.

Ethnic Israel has had the Kingdom taken from them;
Matthew 21:43 ....I will give the Kingdom to the peoples who bear the proper fruit.
Matthew 8:11-12 Many people will come from the East and the West, to sit with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.....but those who were born to the Kingdom will be thrown out into the dark. ......

We Christian peoples are those who will occupy all of the Holy Land. The fulfilment of Romans 9:24-26 and Hosea 1:10

 

[Guojing]

Acts 2:

I will show wonders in the heavens above
and signs on the earth below,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
20 The sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood
before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord.
21 And everyone who calls
on the name of the Lord will be saved.’

The phrase "great and glorious day of the Lord" has a very specific meaning in the OT, you can check that out.

So again, what evidence do you have that the Apostles were thinking of Daniel 9 specifically?

I already said, the Acts 2 church followed Luke 12:33 literally and sold all their possessions. They were expecting the Mark of the Beast anytime soon, that is why they did that.

Do you think they were doing that "for fun"?

 

[Strong in Him]

I already said, the Acts 2 church followed Luke 12:33 literally and sold all their possessions. They were expecting the Mark of the Beast anytime soon, that is why they did that.

Do you think they were doing that "for fun"?

I am sure they did that because they were showing the sacrificial love that Jesus showed, taught and embodied.

What evidence do you have that they were expecting "the mark of the beast?"
How do you know what their motives were; were you there?

 

[throughfierytrial]

Don't negate the promise to Abraham of the "seed" which will never die which means ethnic Jews (biological descendants of Abraham). We don't replace Israel, as Paul says, we gentiles are grafted in. The original branches are still there and will always be.

Galatians 3:7-9:
7 Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham.8 Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”[d] 9 So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

Galatians 3:15-17:
15 Brothers and sisters, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case.16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,”[i] meaning one person, who is Christ.

 

[throughfierytrial]

Galatians 3:7-9:
7 Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham.8 Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”[d] 9 So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

Galatians 3:15-17:
15 Brothers and sisters, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case.16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,”[i] meaning one person, who is Christ.

Add:Galatians 3:27-29:

27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free,nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirsaccording to the promise.