Why Is It So Hard for Christians to Talk About Justice and Greed?

[joechristianwarrior]

I’ve been reflecting lately on how often Scripture warns us about greed and how closely that warning is tied to God’s call for justice and care for others. Jesus speaks about money and the dangers of wealth more than almost any other topic, yet many Christians today find conversations about justice uncomfortable or “political.”

So I wanted to ask the community here:
Why do you think discussions about justice and greed create such tension among believers?
Is it a matter of theology, culture, politics, or something deeper in the human heart?


I’m preparing a video on this topic and would truly appreciate hearing a range of Christian perspectives!

 

[timothyu]

Why do you think discussions about justice and greed create such tension among believers?

For those in the US perhaps it is because capitalism and free enterprise, the products of greed being gain above the needs of others, is taught almost since birth. Globally the values of mankind are always promoted ahead of those of the Kingdom and as a result, wealth and power are the gods of mankind. This runs totally contrary to the counter-culture of the Kingdom. Even Christianity itself at one time, cast the ideals of the Kingdom aside to align themselves with the world of man, in partnership with an Empire built upon human values. It continues today. The two opposing sets of values could not live as one, so One was cast aside and the institutions of man , be they secular or religious, remained loyal to the foundations of mankind. Yet isn't it funny that seemingly good people will suddenly turn angry when God is brought into the equation, the powers and principalities of the invisible elohim still at work.

 

[Unqualified]

Maybe they don’t like being accused of in justice and greed. Maybe they are not taking sides in all the worldly, political issues of the world. Maybe they are just trying to live a good life and not trying to be the savior and judge. Everyone knows the world is not fixable and taking sides is just going to get themselves attacked by the opposition.
And if you think that’s wishy washy that’s why we have a savior. Are you fighting all these battles?

 

[Delvianna]

There's a ton of reasons and I don't think a particular answer is correct vs other possibilities. Meaning, not 1 answer is the "the" answer. I don't find it "hard" to talk about, I find it draining. When you get into politics, injustice or anything of that nature, people tend to lose their minds if you don't agree with their concept or beliefs. You can't just "agree to disagree", you end up getting labeled or told you're a "bigot" or "fascist" or "racist" or literally any name in the book. It's rare to have any healthy conversation or even debate on these topics before people can't control themselves and start attacking the person instead of the argument. That's why I say "draining" because it's not healthy, it just gets to be too much. And I'm painting this with a broad stroke brush because this isn't a worldly vs Christian instance, as the majority of self-professed Christians I've run across cannot control themselves either and go on the personal attack.

So in my view, the conversation is pointless when the outcome is a giant mess and I already know the world will never get fixed and will continue to get worse until Christ comes. I'd rather focus my efforts on stuff that matters in the long run, like scripture and God.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I’ve been reflecting lately on how often Scripture warns us about greed and how closely that warning is tied to God’s call for justice and care for others. Jesus speaks about money and the dangers of wealth more than almost any other topic, yet many Christians today find conversations about justice uncomfortable or “political.”

So I wanted to ask the community here:
Why do you think discussions about justice and greed create such tension among believers?
Is it a matter of theology, culture, politics, or something deeper in the human heart?


I’m preparing a video on this topic and would truly appreciate hearing a range of Christian perspectives!

I see greed and justice as two completely different ends of moral character. Greed being flesh driven and justice being a Godly virtue. I'm not sure why you're using both of these in one sentence as if they are somehow related. Both are quite important however, should they not be treated as such, separate issues? Unless the attempt to make the connection is through judgment like Lazarus and the rich man?
Just my thoughts.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I’ve been reflecting lately on how often Scripture warns us about greed and how closely that warning is tied to God’s call for justice and care for others. Jesus speaks about money and the dangers of wealth more than almost any other topic, yet many Christians today find conversations about justice uncomfortable or “political.”

So I wanted to ask the community here:
Why do you think discussions about justice and greed create such tension among believers?
Is it a matter of theology, culture, politics, or something deeper in the human heart?


I’m preparing a video on this topic and would truly appreciate hearing a range of Christian perspectives!

I have never noticed this.

 

[tturt]

Curious to me why this subforum was selected to post the question.

 

[joechristianwarrior]

For those in the US perhaps it is because capitalism and free enterprise, the products of greed being gain above the needs of others, is taught almost since birth. Globally the values of mankind are always promoted ahead of those of the Kingdom and as a result, wealth and power are the gods of mankind. This runs totally contrary to the counter-culture of the Kingdom. Even Christianity itself at one time, cast the ideals of the Kingdom aside to align themselves with the world of man, in partnership with an Empire built upon human values. It continues today. The two opposing sets of values could not live as one, so One was cast aside and the institutions of man , be they secular or religious, remained loyal to the foundations of mankind. Yet isn't it funny that seemingly good people will suddenly turn angry when God is brought into the equation, the powers and principalities of the invisible elohim still at work.

Yeah, that seems like a reasonable explanation. The 'brain-washing' of capitalist values starts young, and doesn't stop when we grow old. We really do need to be "born again" to start to change our perspective.

 

[joechristianwarrior]

There's a ton of reasons and I don't think a particular answer is correct vs other possibilities. Meaning, not 1 answer is the "the" answer. I don't find it "hard" to talk about, I find it draining. When you get into politics, injustice or anything of that nature, people tend to lose their minds if you don't agree with their concept or beliefs. You can't just "agree to disagree", you end up getting labeled or told you're a "bigot" or "fascist" or "racist" or literally any name in the book. It's rare to have any healthy conversation or even debate on these topics before people can't control themselves and start attacking the person instead of the argument. That's why I say "draining" because it's not healthy, it just gets to be too much. And I'm painting this with a broad stroke brush because this isn't a worldly vs Christian instance, as the majority of self-professed Christians I've run across cannot control themselves either and go on the personal attack.

So in my view, the conversation is pointless when the outcome is a giant mess and I already know the world will never get fixed and will continue to get worse until Christ comes. I'd rather focus my efforts on stuff that matters in the long run, like scripture and God.

I can agree with what you're saying here, though only to the extent that we make the discussion *political*, rather than personal.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I’ve been reflecting lately on how often Scripture warns us about greed and how closely that warning is tied to God’s call for justice and care for others. Jesus speaks about money and the dangers of wealth more than almost any other topic, yet many Christians today find conversations about justice uncomfortable or “political.”

So I wanted to ask the community here:
Why do you think discussions about justice and greed create such tension among believers?
Is it a matter of theology, culture, politics, or something deeper in the human heart?


I’m preparing a video on this topic and would truly appreciate hearing a range of Christian perspectives!

Can you give examples of exactly what aspects of justice you’re referring to because I’m not aware of Christians avoiding the topic in general.

 

[joechristianwarrior]

Can you give examples of exactly what aspects of justice you’re referring to because I’m not aware of Christians avoiding the topic in general.

Sure. One example has to do with the poor. Many label calls to help those who are poor, or born at an economic disadvantage, as "social justice". And many 'Christians' avoid discussions along those lines specifically, as one example.

 

[timothyu]

And many 'Christians' avoid discussions along those lines specifically, as one example.

I thought fear of McCarthyism which led to an unethical fear of loving all as self was no longer an influence. But I guess the will of man reigns over the will of God.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Sure. One example has to do with the poor. Many label calls to help those who are poor, or born at an economic disadvantage, as "social justice". And many 'Christians' avoid discussions along those lines specifically, as one example.

I have never heard or avoided discussing that topic, nor have I ever experienced others. We can discuss it all you want.
Our family has donated thousands and thousands of $ to the poor and disadvantaged. I know of many Christians who have done the same.
But I suspect you are referring to politically and government-enforced giving, which is fine. I want my giving to glorify God, not some politician or political party. Even so, that does not mean I am avoiding the topic of giving. I don't want to have my arm twisted to give to politicians and be told I am not loving if I refuse. So I see this discussion is just one more attempt to accuse "Christians" of not caring because we hesitate to contribute to state and political purposes. I would like to see the state pass laws that allow us to either contribute to the state's tax welfare programs or contribute the same amount to the charity organizations of our choice.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Sure. One example has to do with the poor. Many label calls to help those who are poor, or born at an economic disadvantage, as "social justice". And many 'Christians' avoid discussions along those lines specifically, as one example.

Thanks for clarifying brother. I don’t agree that Christians avoid these types of discussions, I think the debate about illegal immigrants is a prime example of Christians engaging in this type of discussion. Unfortunately I think a lot of people place man’s law above God’s law on this particular topic.

 

[timothyu]

Unfortunately I think a lot of people place man’s law above God’s law on this particular topic.

Then should it not follow that the immigrants should also do likewise? Everybody here in North America has roots in immigrants. What built, rather than tore down the growing civilization, was a willingness to work together to nourish the new society and following its rules, not bring with them what they found unsettling about their land of birth, like an infection into a healthy land. Unfortunately it is not only the greed of some immigrants that come for the wrong reasons, but also in the established who are unwilling to share with any. Hence there has always been a vetting process which should not be ignored. This isn't an auction of a storage facility where one takes a chance there might be something of value. That mentality has been the downfall of all the former civilized and prosperous nations in recent years. There has been an influx of people, not coming to build, but to take. Turning the other cheek does not mean the altruists must put up with the abuse. Like the Kingdom, there are stipulations for entry.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Those who argue in favor of unlimited immigration (open borders). Using your own arguments, tell me why we should not allow 8 billion foreigners into the country, give them free housing, free food, free healthcare, and free retirement benefits? Am I right to call you a racist and a hater if you refuse to let the entire population of the planet into our nation?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Then should it not follow that the immigrants should also do likewise? Everybody here in North America has roots in immigrants. What built, rather than tore down the growing civilization, was a willingness to work together to nourish the new society and following its rules, not bring with them what they found unsettling about their land of birth, like an infection into a healthy land. Unfortunately it is not only the greed of some immigrants that come for the wrong reasons, but also in the established who are unwilling to share with any. Hence there has always been a vetting process which should not be ignored. This isn't an auction of a storage facility where one takes a chance there might be something of value. That mentality has been the downfall of all the former civilized and prosperous nations in recent years. There has been an influx of people, not coming to build, but to take. Turning the other cheek does not mean the altruists must put up with the abuse. Like the Kingdom, there are stipulations for entry.

Do you judge people by their actions or by their nationality or race? In order to judge people by their actions you can’t stereotype them into groups or demographics, you have to deal with them as individuals. I don’t see that happening in your post. It seems like what you’re actually doing is judging them based on their actions of a very minuscule percentage of immigrants and lumping them all together in the same group.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Those who argue in favor of unlimited immigration (open borders). Using your own arguments, tell me why we should not allow 8 billion foreigners into the country, give them free housing, free food, free healthcare, and free retirement benefits? Am I right to call you a racist and a hater if you refuse to let the entire population of the planet into our nation?

Is anyone arguing for this? I don’t see any posts in support of this radical idea.

 

[jonojim1337]

I appreciate that the Bible is a guide both for those who are destined to rule and those who are ruled. God is not a respecter of persons. So whatever the case, acting with justice and fairness is for one’s own sake and not the sake of others.

 

[timothyu]

Do you judge people by their actions or by their nationality or race? In order to judge people by their actions you can’t stereotype them into groups or demographics, you have to deal with them as individuals. I don’t see that happening in your post. It seems like what you’re actually doing is judging them based on their actions of a very minuscule percentage of immigrants and lumping them all together in the same group.

That is the point of vetting.