Is Hell Annihilationism or Eternal Torment

[Hentenza]

It is talking about the destruction of eternal fire, the fate of those that are to be subjected to the "punishment of eternal fire" as Jude also points out. hence the reason why I started with this verse, I use actual exegesis to show how this concept is more fully addressed by related texts of scripture. Jude explicitly links the two events together.

So unless you are determined to get out the scissors when reading Jude as he connects Sodom and Gomorrah to the future destruction of the wicked, you have a problem there and simply telling us "not to look" is not a very compelling solution

hint. IT is called exegesis. We take a single topic and allow scripture to inform us on that topic even if it is not in the same chapter.

Hint: you can’t just associate verses together just because you want to. Exegesis requires much more hermeneutical elements including the various contexts and word studies. Just because you call it exegesis doesn’t mean that it is one.

For one, the verse in Matt. 25 is talking about the accursed people going into the eternal fire.

““Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you accursed people, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25‬:‭41‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Matthew 25:41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you accursed people, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

“Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you accursed people, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels

bible.com

The verse in Jude speaks of the city with the people, “they”, and it also includes the sins that resulted in their eternal punishment just as in the verse in Matthew.

“just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these angels indulged in sexual perversion and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.”
‭‭Jude‬ ‭1‬:‭7‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Jude 1:7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these angels indulged in sexual perversion and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NA

just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these angels indulged in sexual perversion and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing

bible.com

However, the verse in 2 Peter speaks strictly of the cities not the people. Notice that the cities are destroyed BY reducing them to ashes. No mention of the people in this verse.

“and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example of what is coming for the ungodly;”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭2‬:‭6‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

2 Peter 2:6 and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example of what is coming for the ungodly | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example of what is coming for the ungodly

bible.com

Your “exegesis” failed. It is important that language become part of a proper exegesis.

 

[Hentenza]

Matt 10:28 says that what you just described is accurate for the first death but is totally off in the case of the second death where "Both body AND SOUL" are destroyed in fiery hell. Your statement above would delete Matt 10:28 and make the first and second death , the same,

Instead of that Jesus Himself contrasts the first and second death using those terms as pointed out in my prior post here.

Matt 10:
"28 Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; (first death)
but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell (called second death in Rev 20).

This verse seems to back up your theory, however, only if you define apollumi as destroy completely rather than ruined or lost which are all correct definitions. For example, apollumi is used to describe the condition of wine skins that burst in Matt. 9:17. Obviously the wine skins were not destroyed completely but ruined to the point of not longer being able to be used as designed.

Secondly, the second death depicted in Rev. 20 reinforces the definition of appolumi as ruined because those not found in the book of life are thrown in the same lake of fire where the beast and the false prophet will suffer eternity in torment. Why would the fate of the wicked be any different? Nowhere does it teach that the wicked will be annihilated but the beast and the false prophet will not.

“And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20‬:‭10‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Revelation 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020

And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

bible.com

 

[BobRyan]

Secondly, the material burns and turns to ashes

Just as what God says about Lucifer in Ezek 28

but not the immaterial. The same as our bodies decompose in the ground but our souls do not.

God is the one that says he destroys BOTH body and soul in fiery hell in Matt 10:28 in the second death , very unlike the first death where the body is destroyed but not the soul.

You keep responding as if I wrote Matt 10:28, and I should not have done it.

Even Rev 20 goes into that same detail that you seem to oppose

 

[BobRyan]

Hint: you can’t just associate verses together just because you want to.

indeed, instead of that we see verses all speaking of eternal fire and we take them all as dealing with the subject we are studying.

Instead of merely ignoring whatever does not suit our preference.

This is the easy part.

For one, the verse in Matt. 25 is talking about the accursed people going into the eternal fire.

Jude is also dealing with that same feature of the those who are not saved.

LOST/wicked PERSONS:
4 For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

5 Now I desire to remind you, though you know all things once for all, that the Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day, 7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

you really don't have much wiggle room there. The author makes the very connections that your preferences do not tolerate

““Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you accursed people, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25‬:‭41‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Looks like it is the same great day of judgment that Jude speaks of.

Impossible to miss.

or the judgment of the great day, 7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah

However, the verse in 2 Peter speaks strictly of the cities not the people. Notice that the cities are destroyed BY reducing them to ashes.

Ezek 28 Satan destroyed and reduced to 'ashes on the Earth" as stated explicitly in Ezek 28.

The wicked destroyed as "ashes under your feet"

Mal 4:1 “For behold, the day is coming, burning like a furnace; and all the arrogant and every evildoer will be chaff; and the day that is coming will set them ablaze,” says the Lord of hosts, “so that it will leave them neither root nor branch.” 2 “But for you who fear My name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings; and you will go forth and skip about like calves from the stall. 3 You will tread down the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day which I am preparing,” says the Lord of hosts.

You seem to be digging the whole deeper for your own argument

 

[Mark Quayle]

If we consider the fact that God is outside of time, and He is not bound or governed by any laws of nature as His creation is. Then if we consider that God created time, at the same time that He created the heavens and the earth.
Genesis 1:1 says "In the beginning", this is when time began. And God has appointed an end to time itself as well.

I'm not suggesting that God had a begging, we know He is outside of time and He is not a part of anything He created, He is separate to His creation so He is nothing like we are.

The reason, those who are cast into hell will be tormented in fire for ever and ever, is because they continue to sin while they are being punished and that means they are heaping more coals of fire on their head.

They actually blaspheme the name of God while He punishes them, just like we hear unbelievers blaspheme the name of God when they burn themselves with a hot coffee or hit their thumb with a hammer, but the pain is much worse in hell so their blasphemy is much worse, and they never reach a time when they find the peace in their heart to repent.

It's actually impossible to find peace in your heart which would allow you to repent while you are in excruciating pain, so all they can do is scream out blasphemies against God, and that keeps their condemnation building up perpetually forevermore.

Time will cease to exist, when Christ returns to judge the world. All of mankind will step into eternity, and time won't exist anymore. Those who abide in the spiritual realm (the Angels) are already outside of time.

At the end of this age, Christ will return, the dead will be resurrected, the final judgment will occur, and the eternal state (new heaven and new earth) will begin immediately.

Matthew 24:35: Jesus states, "Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away".

2 Peter 3:10: This verse describes the "day of the Lord" when "the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed".

Revelation 21:1, 4: John's vision describes a definitive end to the current order: "Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away... He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away".

Yet even our terminology to describe the state of things to come is temporal terminology. And so is our thinking on the matter. But, it's ok. We really can't help ourselves. But it is good to keep a skeptical eye on our own conclusions. It is easier to say what such things are not, than to say what they are.

 

[Hentenza]

indeed, instead of that we see verses all speaking of eternal fire and we take them all as dealing with the subject we are studying.

Instead of merely ignoring whatever does not suit our preference.

This is the easy part.

Jude is also dealing with that same feature of the those who are not saved.

LOST/wicked PERSONS:
4 For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

5 Now I desire to remind you, though you know all things once for all, that the Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day, 7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

you really don't have much wiggle room there. The author makes the very connections that your preferences do not tolerate

Didn’t ask for wiggle room. I explained in my post that Matt 25 and Jude are about people and both are about eternal punishment. I don’t see what it is you are arguing. In fact you seem to be agreeing with me.

Looks like it is the same great day of judgment that Jude speaks of.

Impossible to miss.

Not in the language of 2 Peter.

or the judgment of the great day, 7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah

Ezek 28 Satan destroyed and reduced to 'ashes on the Earth" as stated explicitly in Ezek 28.

But satan is not destroyed and turned to ashes instead is thrown into the same lake of fire as the beast, the false prophet, and the wicked to be tortured for ever (Rev. 20). So do you think that your interpretation of Ezekiel. 28 is correct given that you just put it in tension with Rev. 20? To put in tension is not a good thing.

The wicked destroyed as "ashes under your feet"

Mal 4:1 “For behold, the day is coming, burning like a furnace; and all the arrogant and every evildoer will be chaff; and the day that is coming will set them ablaze,” says the Lord of hosts, “so that it will leave them neither root nor branch.” 2 “But for you who fear My name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings; and you will go forth and skip about like calves from the stall. 3 You will tread down the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day which I am preparing,” says the Lord of hosts.

You continue to interpret symbolic language literally. It seems that you just googled verses that contain the word “ashes” and are bundling them together to attempt to shore up your argument but all you are doing is mixing unrelated verses.

You seem to be digging the whole deeper for your own argument

Nah. I think you are getting more confused as you go.

 

[Dan1988]

Do we take His parable of Lazarus and the rich man literal or symbolic? Parables are stories designed to conceal and reveal the truths of the Kingdom of God, making the hearer work to extract the spiritual meaning, they rely on symbolism. However, in some cases, like the good Samaritan and Lazarus and the rich man, there is nothing to extract and contemplate, the spiritual meaning is provided in the text. Afterall, we take the word " paradise " literal as a glimpse of the afterlife for those who are in Him. So what of those who are not?

Thanks for sharing!
Be blessed.

Luke 16:19-31
“There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
“Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’
“Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’ ”

I regret to inform you that the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man in Luke 16:19-31 is not a parable. It is a story about actual people.
The Lord Jesus never refers to the names of people, when He uses parables to convey a message. I also thought Luke 16 was a parable, but I was recently corrected.

 

[Dan1988]

I'm not even worried about this particular issue of "either/or." This is a non-issue for me because either way, it's bad news for the unrepentant.

Have a nice day!

I hope your salvation is genuine, because all professing Christians think they have nothing to worry about. But we know the awful truth is, many will come to Jesus on that day saying "Lord, Lord, haven't we done all of these good works, but He will say to them "depart from Me, for I never knew you".

 

[Dan1988]

Actually that would be the minority view not the majority. The majority of Christians view hell as infinite torment. A forever existing of maximum suffering in fire where the fire is some sort of supernatural "not like real fire in this life" process.




Matt 25:41 NASB 41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

Jude 1:7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

2 Pet 2:6 6 and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter


No matter what someone wishes to believe. The Bible is true. In all its statements on the subject

1. God is a "consuming fire" in Heb 12 rather than a fire "that does not consume'
2. John does not use the term hell for burning but rather the lake of fire. the apostle John never uses the term hell to mean place of torment or fire. Rather he uses the term "lake of fire" that "devours them" vs 9 " fire came down from heaven and devoured them." NASB
3. Luke 12 says each person is punished according to deeds, some receive much punishment and some less. Very different from "infinite punishment for all"
4. Ezek 28 says that Satan "will be turned to ashes on the Earth, You will cease to be forever"


18 “By the multitude of your iniquities,
In the unrighteousness of your trade
You profaned your sanctuaries.
Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you;
It has consumed you,
And I have turned you to ashes on the earth
In the eyes of all who see you.
19 “All who know you among the peoples
Are appalled at you;
You have become terrified
And you will cease to be forever.”’”

5. Matt 10:28 says God totally destroys both soul and body in hell as compared to the first death where men can "kill the body but not the soul"

6. Not one text says the wicked have eternal life. In Ezek 18 the wicked die and the righteous do not die.

7. In Rev 20 the wicked are "consumed" by fire that comes from God

8. Malachi 4:3 You will tread down the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day which I am preparing,” says the Lord of hosts.

The bible never ever describes death as "cessation of existence", if your view was correct, then mankind doesn't actually exist and this life is an illusion.

But we know that we do exist, so your view is based on false doctrine.

According to God everyone s already dead, so what is death. If we are born dead in sin, then death is not the (cessation of existence) death you believe in. To the contrary, the bible confirms that sinners are born (spiritually dead) and then they die a second (spiritual death) which is their eternal state. They remain in their spiritually dead state for all eternity, but they are fully conscious and they feel pain just as much as thy do now.

So, we need to find out what the Biblical description of death is, before we can draw to any conclusion on the matter. From what I see, your view is not supported by any scripture. Satan is a Spiritual being, He is not made of flesh and bone so the description of His burning up to ashes on the earth must be referring to His power as the Prince of this world. He is stripped of all His power and He will never be reinstated as the Prince of this world.

The Bible is clear that on that day (when we step into eternity), everyone will be resurrected and reunited their own bodies. Those who died in their sin will remain in that state forever, but those who were saved will receive a glorified body and we will be perfect and sinless like Christ Himself.

 

[Dan1988]

Gos is NOT a tortuous monster .... full stop. To even entertain the idea that God has a eternal torture chamber is totally non-sense.

Jesus himself describes death as a "sleep", why? because one day ALL will be resurrected from the first death.

It's ultimately about eternal life or eternal death. Death is non existence and we shouldn't be confused about it. The first death is temporary the 2nd death is for eternity.

That's all based on your own private opinion, but there are no scriptures to support this opinion. There are countless scriptures which support the doctrine of hell as "Eternal Conscious Torment".

Thanks for your opinion, but private opinions have no value in Gods economy.

 

[Dan1988]

Yet even our terminology to describe the state of things to come is temporal terminology. And so is our thinking on the matter. But, it's ok. We really can't help ourselves. But it is good to keep a skeptical eye on our own conclusions. It is easier to say what such things are not, than to say what they are.

God is a mystery and we only know what He has revealed about Himself in the Bible. Nobody has ever seen God and His ways are past finding out. His ways are infinitely higher than ours, this is why so many here describe God as someone who enjoys tormenting people.

God has hidden most things from us, He doesn't want us to know about any of them, yet so many Christians are seeking to get into the mind of God to find out about those things God is hiding.

Many struggle to make sense of the doctrine of hell as "Eternal Conscious Torment". God described it in those terms so I simply accept everything Gods has said. I feel no compulsion to put God on trial and force Him to justify everything He does to me.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I hope your salvation is genuine, because all professing Christians think they have nothing to worry about. But we know the awful truth is, many will come to Jesus on that day saying "Lord, Lord, haven't we done all of these good works, but He will say to them "depart from Me, for I never knew you".

I hope your salvation is genuine as well, because Christians shouldn't be making it an obsessive habit of constantly going around, poking other Christians in the eye and declaring that "...if you're not like me in following Calvin, you're on the WRONG path!!!..."

John Calvin doesn't save. Jesus does, and He was doing so well before Calvin ever came along. Don't forget that.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I regret to inform you that the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man in Luke 16:19-31 is not a parable. It is a story about actual people.
The Lord Jesus never refers to the names of people, when He uses parables to convey a message. I also thought Luke 16 was a parable, but I was recently corrected.

This has been debated for centuries so naturally there are several interpretations. Never the less, all of Jesus Christ's parables hold a spiritual message whether its based on real people or not.It is typically still treated as a parable because it shares the same structure and teaching style as the others.
In my opinion, it is a parable revealing the path towards the afterlife just like many of His teachings.
Thanks for sharing!

 

[JulieB67]

So, we need to find out what the Biblical description of death is, before we can draw to any conclusion on the matter. From what I see, your view is not supported by any scripture. Satan is a Spiritual being, He is not made of flesh and bone so the description of His burning up to ashes on the earth must be referring to His power as the Prince of this world. He is stripped of all His power and He will never be reinstated as the Prince of this world.

It would seem like you still need to educate yourself some more. Oh that's right, you have teachers for whom you look to for that.

But angels do have bodies. So much so that they are often called men in the bible. They can wash, eat and so on. We can even be sustained by their food. So the description in Ezekiel is exactly on point. As well as the Malachi verses which you continually ignore. A fire consumes, plain and simple and those verses prove it. If you believe otherwise, by all means break down the Malachi verses.

And the rich man and Lazarus just proves there is a gulf at this point. No one has been thrown into the Lake of Fire yet. That's the consuming fire -the second death at Judgement Day.

 

[Hentenza]

As well as the Malachi verses which you continually ignore. A fire consumes, plain and simple and those verses prove it. If you believe otherwise, by all means break down the Malachi verses.

Fire consumes the material, like the body, but not the immaterial, like the spirit and soul. All will be resurrected for judgement, including those whose bodies turned to ash or just merely decomposed.

And the rich man and Lazarus just proves there is a gulf at this point. No one has been thrown into the Lake of Fire yet. That's the consuming fire -the second death at Judgement Day.

It proves that the spirit and soul remain awake. This is not a parable because it is never called a parable and it uses actual names which are not part of any other parable. Secondly, like actual parables use an earthly metaphors, this story is almost entirely based on the afterlife.

 

[Hawkins]

Hell is a natural and logical outcome. Any realm without God's direct influence is a "free world" where the most evil and the most powerful will eventually rule, whose name happens to be Satan. Earth actually is almost a hell (it's a wilderness), that's why Satan is referred to as "the god of this world". Once God's influence is withdrawn, that is after God saved all His sheep God's job is done, Earth will be a hell (turned to from a wilderness).

After the Final Judgment, the realm of the dead is a hell under the ruling of Satan, that's where the torment is. This realm of the dead is called a permanent separation from God (i.e., with zero influence from God). God cuts His knowledge about anything happened to this realm, as God is the god of living but not the god of the dead. The god of the dead is Satan, so whatever you want and demand shall go to Satan (he's the true god of his realm by then).

A fire hell is due to the inability of Satan as god of the realm of the dead. Satan is incapable of countering true natural disasters. Earth and this universe are not the true nature, as they are God-made. The true nature is filled with energy and fire. It's prophesied that the realm of the dead will eventually run into an eternal fire (which is the true nature), due to Satan's inability.

The raw concept of hell and the lake of fire are an original Jewish concept as explained by Josephus the Pharisee (and a historian). Jesus applied such a concept, it means the concept is endorsed and authenticated.

 

[Mark Quayle]

I hope your salvation is genuine as well, because Christians shouldn't be making it an obsessive habit of constantly going around, poking other Christians in the eye and declaring that "...if you're not like me in following Calvin, you're on the WRONG path!!!..."

John Calvin doesn't save. Jesus does, and He was doing so well before Calvin ever came along. Don't forget that.

What is currently called Calvinism didn't start with Calvin.

 

[eleos1954]

That's all based on your own private opinion, but there are no scriptures to support this opinion. There are countless scriptures which support the doctrine of hell as "Eternal Conscious Torment".

Thanks for your opinion, but private opinions have no value in Gods economy.

• Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10 is cited to support the belief that the dead "know nothing" and have no activity or knowledge in the grave (Sheol).
• Psalm 146:4 states that when a person dies, their thoughts perish.
• Psalm 115:17 indicates that the dead do not praise the Lord.
• Job 14:10-12 describes death as a state of lying down until a future resurrection.
• Genesis 3:19, concerning returning to dust, is seen as the punishment for sin, rather than eternal torment.
• John 11:11-14, where Jesus describes Lazarus' death as a "sleep," is interpreted as a metaphor for the unconscious state of death before resurrection.

 

[eleos1954]

I'm not saying that it can be both, but that it can be neither, or maybe, better, that there may be a perspective/understanding that encompasses both.

Your descriptions are dependent on some form of time passage. And we don't know how to think otherwise, so I think that is partly why the terminology of Scripture. But when one looks at the attributes of God —particularly his singularity of purpose —his Aseity— and his Omnipotence and Sovereignty, we have to conclude that time is only one of his "inventions", one of his tools, and not necessarily something that governs the life/death to come, which is his economy —his realm.

When I consider that Christ took our punishment for us, I have to conclude that he suffered EVERYTHING we would have, not just temporal torment and death, but the torments of hell for every one of us who have our sin forgiven. He 'survived' it because he is God. "Hell could not hold him". I can't say that my conclusions are accurate —much less my descriptions— but I think there is something to them: That what happened to him, and to everyone of the reprobate, is a matter of what we in this life might term, "INTENSITY", where time passage does not apply. In this, complete destruction is going to happen, and is never over with (because there is no time passage), yet not ongoing in the sense that "time" would imply. Their hopelessness, anguish, despair, pain, regret, anger, hatred for God all "at once" knowing what it is to have lost all virtue with which we once knew them here, lost it because God has abandoned them.

God is not a torturing monster ... to think so is ridiculous

Hell is the grave .... Jesus Himself ... and many other places in the bible describes death as a dormant sleep (1st death) why? Because one day ALL will be resurrected (woken from their sleep)

Christian theology holds that Jesus's divine nature is what enabled him to survive death and be resurrected, but it was his human nature that experienced death. His death was a sacrifice made possible by his dual nature, and his resurrection was due to the power of God.

It's about eternal life (living with God forever-eternal existence) or eternal death (eternal non(existence)

We are not to be confused about death ... the 1st death is temporary ... the 2nd death is final for eternity.

 

[JulieB67]

Fire consumes the material, like the body, but not the immaterial, like the spirit and soul.

We are talking about God's consuming fire that can destroy both body and soul. And I choose to believe Christ's words in that we are to fear the one that can destroy (fully in the Greek) both body and soul. That's why Christ calls it the "second" death. Afterwards he claims to make "all things" new and that the former things will be passed away.