• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Is Christian Zionism a heresy?

Michie

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 5, 2002
185,523
68,161
Woods
✟6,161,312.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
By now it is old news that Tucker Carlson is splitting the MAGA world by interviewing a racist podcaster who praises Hitler and Stalin. But few if any have challenged Carlson’s claim in that softball interview that Christian Zionism is “Christian heresy.”

Christian Zionists say that Jews have a right to a homeland, and that this right is supported by the Bible. They say this support is not only in the Hebrew Bible (which Christians call the Old Testament) but also in the New Testament.

The apostle Paul, for example, wrote that “the gifts and calling of God are without repentance” (Romans 11:29). Paul was writing about Jews who had not accepted Jesus as messiah. He wrote that “as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sake” (Romans 11:28). In other words, they were still the Chosen People because of the promises He made to the patriarchs (Abraham, Isaac and Jacob). And the “gifts” he gave to them were irrevocable.

What did Paul mean by “the gifts”? In the first century Jewish thinkers such as Philo the philosopher and Josephus the historian wrote of God’s gifts to the Jewish people, and the land as one of the greatest of those gifts.

Continued below.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vambram

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,617
12,058
Georgia
✟1,120,012.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
I don't think one needs to be a dispensationalist or zionist to affirm the right of Israel to exist as a nation. All nations have a right to exist. And America has the right to form alliances with cooperating nations such as Israel.

That is true even from the POV of one like me who is not a dispensationalist. It is just basic Christianity to form friendships, alliances and agreements and then stick to them.
 
Upvote 0

jas3

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2023
1,338
966
The South
✟107,223.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Yes, it is.
The apostle Paul, for example, wrote that “the gifts and calling of God are without repentance” (Romans 11:29). Paul was writing about Jews who had not accepted Jesus as messiah. He wrote that “as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sake” (Romans 11:28). In other words, they were still the Chosen People because of the promises He made to the patriarchs (Abraham, Isaac and Jacob).
That conclusion is fine, with the qualification that the "chosen people" who continue in their rejection of the Messiah have been cut off (Rom. 11:20). They are only grafted back in if they abandon their unbelief (Rom. 11:23). Verse 29 doesn't mean they still have a "land promise," it means that God is merciful in continuing to give unbelieving Jews the chance to repent and be grafted back in by following the example of the Gentiles (vv. 30-32).

What did Paul mean by “the gifts”?
Huh, if only there were another few verses after that one where he elaborated on what he meant.

As for the relationship between dispensationalism and Zionism, whether or not you can point to a couple of writers in the prior two centuries (still very late in Christian history), it's undeniable that the idea that God has simultaneous contradictory covenants (dispensationalism) and the idea that God's promise of land under the Old Covenant continues today (Zionism) go hand in hand, and they both really entered mainstream evangelical thought at the same time and through the same influences.
 
  • Wow
Reactions: Vambram
Upvote 0