Hell doesn't exist and there is no eternal suffering, instead bad peolle just cease to exist

[Dreyma]

A hellish experience of some sort likely exists. The important question is whether it is endless / everlasting as commonly taught.

It is unlikely that a just God would punish limited people with unlimited torture.

I hope you're right. That does seem more just to me.

 

[JulieB67]

It is unlikely that a just God would punish limited people with unlimited torture.

Exactly

 

[Lukaris]

I hope you're right. That does seem more just to me.

I believe much of salvation by grace and the idea of works ( Ephesians 2:8-10) is a simple hope for the salvation of others. The Lord’s Prayer ( Matthew 6:9-13) is as much for ourselves as well as others. Jesus Christ tells us to pray for evangelists and evangelism ( Matthew 9:36-38). Paul tells us the purpose of this in 1 Timothy 2:1-6.

I am not speaking as some kind of pseudo sublime guy; I often feel frustrated in daily life. Hell is unfortunately real but not inevitable to anyone. This is why I so strongly believe in the golden rule ( Matthew 7:1-12) & that anyone is judged by the light given them ( Romans 2:1-16). This is where the Lord’s commandments ( Matthew 22:36-40, Romans 13:8-10, etc.) click in for me for prayer, whatever charity I can practice ( Matthew 6:1-4). I drive a 12 year old car & do general warehouse labor.

There is a wrong way to think of ourselves in failing to truly live by faith & the Lord shows us this in Luke 18:9-14. I have often found what Paul writes in 2 Corinthians 9:6-15 helpful in summing up living by faith. This is where reading Romans 8:1-39 also starts to click in for me if I remember having a hope for others is included in my thoughts.

 

[Dan1988]

Well, this would certainly explain why you can't answer simple questions about your beliefs on certain verses and how ours are taken out of context. Someone that has the truth as you claim would have easily been able to do so. But you can't.


Are you joking? We have posted scripture over and over and you continually ignore sound scripture. You've never once addressed any scripture I've posted. I'm a scripture person first and foremost. You are not. You mainly pass judgement and resort to insults.


You do realize we are supposed to test them? See if what they are stating can be supported? It's biblical to do so. The Bereans searched the scriptures daily. Were they being arrogant as well? Of course not. And we are told to test all things. We aren't told we need a degree first.

And it's good to question them as well. I grew up in a Baptist church that taught false doctrine. If you would rather follow man than God, so be it. I choose to put my faith in Him and his Word. Am I still learning? Of course as we all should be because the Word can open up at different times. And it's God that gives the increase.

Just because someone has a degree, does not mean they have the truth.




Funny how you post all of these verses and yet are still can't see the truth within them about life and death. There's a distinction. One has everlasting life and the other does not. You have to add to these verses to produce a doctrine. And we know the punishment for that. So again, we have to be very careful.

But in posting these verses you are in fact making our argument for us, not against us concerning life and death.

I can't answer questions which ae based on a false premise, it's like asking me how tall was the real Mickey Mouse and then mocking me for not answering an silly nonsensical question. That's absolutely ridiculous.

No, No, No, you've never posted a single verse to support your heretical theory that death means annihilation or cessation of existence, so please stop lying. You can't find any because they don't exist outside of your wild imagination.

The Berrien's were knew next to nothing compared to people like me, it was all new to them and they were amazed, ,so much so they had to check the scriptures to confirm what they heard was real. But I'm a born again Christian, who doesn't need to check anything because I know the truth of the gospel already.

So before you go checking to see if those things are so, how about you first join a bible class for beginners so you can at least learn the basics. Then you may be equipped to evaluate something.

There's no point in questioning anyone, until you know the truth. If you don't know the truth, then you don't know if someone is lying to you.

 

[Dan1988]

As were those Jesus was continually at odds with.

I knew I could rely on you to miss the pink elephant in the corner of the room. There's a slight but an important difference between my Pastor and the Pheresis, yes both are highly educated but they were highly indoctrinated with false doctrine or the "doctrine of demons". But my Pastor is highly educated in Theology.

So it's back to the drawing board for you, it seems you have a lot to learn

 

[Dan1988]

So you are a follower of Jesus' only good news, the Gospel of the Kingdom?

Yes, I am a born again Christian, in other words "a follower of the Lord Jesus". I thought that was obvious, or is your question loaded

 

[RamiC]

I can't answer questions which ae based on a false premise,

Fine, please explain the false premise. What is it?

 

[Andrewn]

I hope you're right. That does seem more just to me.

If my cat or my dog made a mess, how much punishment do they deserve? Very little, if at all. I would be an evil person if I tortured them.

Despite our errors and addictions, we trust ourselves and others in the loving hands of God and Christ.

 

[JulieB67]

I can't answer questions which ae based on a false premise,

I asked for your beliefs about the scriptures I posted. Do you understand that question? I then asked how are we taking things out of context in those same verses? If you can't answer those than I would start to question your teachers.

then mocking me for not answering an silly nonsensical question.

It was a simple question about scriptures. You claim to have all the truth so you should be able to have an honest discussion about scripture and what your beliefs are about said scriptures. But you continually refuse to do so and resort to insults.

No, No, No, you've never posted a single verse to support your heretical theory that death means annihilation or cessation of existence, so please stop lying. You can't find any because they don't exist outside of your wild imagination.

At this point I'm not even sure if you're a Christian or a troll. And that's an honest statement. If would only explain why you continue to lie. I and others have posted scriptures, you can look back on this thread and see them. Even you posted scriptures that point to our argument, not yours.

Here once again are just a few-

Malachi 4:1 "For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave then neither root nor branch.

God is making it very clear that there will be nothing left.

Malachi 4:3 "And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts."

Destroy in the Hebrew shamad
1. to desolate

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
destruction, bring to nothing, overthrow, perish, pluck down, utterly
A primitive root; to desolate -- destroy(- uction), bring to nought, overthrow, perish, pluck down, X utterly.


Psalms 145:20 "The Lord preserveth all them that love Him: But all the wicked will He destroy."


Psalms 37:20 "But the wicked shall perish, And the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: They shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

Once again, God can't be any more clear. The wicked will consume away, into smoke, shall they consume away. You can try and work around these verses but again, you put them all together and with Christ's teaching it tells us without a doubt what will happen to the wicked.


Psalms 37:38 "But the transgressors shall be destroyed together: The end of the wicked shall be cut off.

Matthew 10:28 "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

II Thessalonians 1:9 "Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;"

But if one wants to redefine certain words and add to God's Word to believe in a doctrine, have at it. I try to always take the bible as a whole and even common sense goes a long way when in reading the Word, we see and learn the very nature of God.

But I'm a born again Christian, who doesn't need to check anything because I know the truth of the gospel already.

Wow, ever heard of the word humility?

Paul told us to test "all things" Are you above Paul? The Word of God should always be our standard, yes even verses our teachers. Christ also taught against false shepherds.

So before you go checking to see if those things are so, how about you first join a bible class for beginners so you can at least learn the basics.

Why? so I can come away with the milk of God's Word? Something I was fed over and over in churches. Paul states we are to move past that.

Do you not really feel equipped to handle at lease some of God's Word on your own? I've learned more on my own than I did years sitting on a church pew- that's the problem with so many. Am I still growing in the Word? I believe so and hopefully I will continue to do so as I study every day. But I have at least read it in it's entirety, something I'm seriously doubting you have done. If you had you would be able to have a honest biblical discussion without resorting to insults, judgement, etc.

 

[timothyu]

But my Pastor is highly educated in Theology.

Biblical or denominational?

 

[timothyu]

Yes, I am a born again Christian, in other words "a follower of the Lord Jesus". I thought that was obvious, or is your question loaded

So, like Jesus, your only gospel is of the Kingdom?

 

[Jipsah]

Jipsah would never reveal what he actually believes.

Check the Apostle's and Nicene Creeds. That'll give you a baseline.

Who are you referring to, when you say "our Saviour died on the cross for our sins"????. Jesus never said He died for those who He casts into hell,

Considering 2 Peter 3:9 that sounds like your doctrine doesn't square with the Word of God on that point,. Might wanna argue that with St. Peter.

that would be ridiculous, as it would make the Lord Jesus a liar.

Which is impossible, so it has to be your barbarous doctrine that's a lie.

If He died to save someone, then He turns around and casts them into hell, it would mean that He is a evil liar.

Or maybe the doctrine of eternal torment isn't true, in which case your diabolical doctrine if false as well.

Why haven't you or your friend ever revealed what you believe Gods Word is referring to when it speaks about death.

Which in your Bizarrro World doctrine means "eternal life in torment".

to your private, unbiblical opinion, death means "annihilation" or "cessation of existence",

I.E., "death" means "death". Wow, what an amazing concept!

but none of these silly opinions are supported by any scripture.

As far as ypu know. You simply depend on your set to tell you what Scripture "really means", which often has little of nothing to do with what it actually says.

They are pure fantasy, and false doctrines or "demonic doctrines" Quote the unwitting Evil Robot. <Laugh>

 

[Jipsah]

There are a few big problem with your theory here. 1. You reject Gods order, by rejecting the Shepherd who God appointed and ordained to lead dumb sheep like myself. god ordains them and you reject Gods order at your own peril.

So if you reject those who come preaching rubbish, because it's necesssry to embrace their rubbish, and thus rejecting them as the fraudsters they obviously are we're "rejecting God's order"
Well, that at least gives us yet another example of why we should reject your rubbish, as you set it of being equal to, or superior to, the Gospel of Christ. T

2. By rejecting them, you're claiming that they don't know the truth but you do.

No "as you do" we;re claiming that you're preaching unscriptural, explicitly false, rubbish, a corruption of the Gospel of Christ.

My Shepherd is a Professor of theology

That and $2 and change will get you a small coffee at Starbucks.

, he has reached the highest level of education.

That Jim-Bob's Muffler Shop and Theological Seminary offers.

Can you even seen how rebellious and arrogant and ignorant it is to reject highly qualified teachers

<Guffaw<

, and usurp that authority for yourself, while you have no qualifications at all and you've obviously never had any formal training.

I'm fine with a BS in Electrical Engineering and the ability to read, and I doubt that your guru has either.

There's nothing more dangerous, than self delusion. It makes you an easy target for the enemy.

 

[Jipsah]

No, that's not true because Gods Word proves that the gospel is awful because it has the stench of death.

Wow. St. Paul took a very different view:
6 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.

Your religion apparently denies that. Imagine my shock.

It's like approaching an unbeliever and telling them that a stinking corpse smells good.
You need to deal with the truth of the gospel.

The "truth" that your gurus have made up

 

[Dan1988]

Fine, please explain the false premise. What is it?

It's your private opinion, which is based on your feelings, and it's not supported by any scriptures at all.

 

[Dan1988]

I asked for your beliefs about the scriptures I posted? Do you understand that question? I then asked how are we taking things out of context in those same verses? If you can't answer those than I would start to question your teachers.

It was a simple question about scriptures. You claim to have all the truth so you should be able to have an honest discussion about scripture and what your beliefs are about said scriptures. But you continually refuse to do so and resort to insults.


At this point I'm not even sure if you're a Christian or a troll. And that's an honest statement. If would only explain why you continue to lie. I and others have posted scriptures, you can look back on this thread and see them. Even you posted scriptures that point to our argument, not yours.

Here once again are just a few-

Malachi 4:1 "For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave then neither root nor branch.

God is making it very clear that there will be nothing left.

Malachi 4:3 "And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts."

Destroy in the Hebrew shamad
1. to desolate

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
destruction, bring to nothing, overthrow, perish, pluck down, utterly
A primitive root; to desolate -- destroy(- uction), bring to nought, overthrow, perish, pluck down, X utterly.


Psalms 145:20 "The Lord preserveth all them that love Him: But all the wicked will He destroy."


Psalms 37:20 "But the wicked shall perish, And the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: They shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

Once again, God can't be any more clear. The wicked will consume away, into smoke, shall they consume away. You can try and work around these verses but again, you put them all together and with Christ's teaching it tells us without a doubt what will happen to the wicked.


Psalms 37:38 "But the transgressors shall be destroyed together: The end of the wicked shall be cut off.

Matthew 10:28 "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

II Thessalonians 1:9 "Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;"

But if one wants to redefine certain words and add to God's Word to believe in a doctrine, have at it. I try to always take the bible as a whole and even common sense goes a long way when in reading the Word, we see and learn the very nature of God.


Wow, ever heard of the word humility?

Paul told us to test "all things" Are you above Paul? The Word of God should always be our standard, yes even verses our teachers. Christ also taught against false shepherds.


Why so I can come away with the milk of God's Word? Something I was fed over and over in churches. Paul states we are to move past that.

Do you not really feel equipped to handle at lease some of God's Word on your own? I've learned more on my own than I did years sitting on a church pew- that's the problem with so many. Am I still growing in the Word? I believe so and hopefully I will continue to do so as I study every day. But I have at least read it in it's entirety, something I'm seriously doubting you have done. If you had you would be able to have a honest biblical discussion without resorting to insults, judgement, etc.

I have asked you many times to show me a single verse to support your un biblical private theory, but you have consistently failed. I knew you would fail miserably because your theology is based on false doctrines.

If a single verse existed to support your private theory, you would have googled it by now and used it to prop up your strawman.
Not sure why you keep listing unrelated verses of scripture which say nothing to support your wild theories. It just shows that you're desperate to defend the indefensible.

Yes Paul did exhort "Born again Christians" to test all things. This doesn't apply to those who are not born again believers, because they are clueless as to what is good and what is evil. Only those of us who are born again believers are indwelt by the Holy Spirit and He leads us into all truth, so we know the difference and we can't be deceived or come under strong delusion as those who think they are Christian but are not.

It's obvious to me that you rely on your own wisdom and understanding, to interpret spiritual things. The problem with that approach is, that it's impossible to rightly divide the Word of God, unless you are being led by the Holy Spirit. Here are some verses to help you understand this awful truth.

1 Corinthians 2:14: "But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." This is perhaps the primary verse cited, emphasizing that spiritual truths are beyond the comprehension of those without the Holy Spirit.

Romans 8:7-8: "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God." This passage is used to argue that the unbeliever's mind is actively hostile toward God, making them morally and spiritually incapable of obeying or pleasing Him.

2 Corinthians 4:4: "whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them." This verse is often cited to show that Satan has a role in blinding the minds of unbelievers, further hindering their ability to receive the Gospel.

John 6:44: "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day." This verse highlights the necessity of God's prior drawing power for anyone to even come to faith in Christ.

John 8:47: "He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God." Jesus's words here indicate a spiritual condition: an unbeliever's inability to "hear" (receive and obey) God's words stems from not belonging to God.

 

[Dan1988]

Biblical or denominational?

My Pastor is anti denomination. He said all 49,000 denominations have departed from the Church which Christ established. They departed because they didn't want to be follow the ordinances which Christ instituted.

My pastor teaches us to have no fellowship with those who have departed from the Body of Christ, because they went out from us to show that they were never truly of us.

 

[Dan1988]

So, like Jesus, your only gospel is of the Kingdom?

I'm still not sure what you mean by "gospel of the Kingdom". I think I know what you mean, but you would be surprised at how many conflicting versions of gospel are going around.

There is only one gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ, but there are 49,000 versions held by the various Christian denominations.

 

[Dan1988]

Check the Apostle's and Nicene Creeds. That'll give you a baseline.

Considering 2 Peter 3:9 that sounds like your doctrine doesn't square with the Word of God on that point,. Might wanna argue that with St. Peter.


Which is impossible, so it has to be your barbarous doctrine that's a lie.

Or maybe the doctrine of eternal torment isn't true, in which case your diabolical doctrine if false as well.

Which in your Bizarrro World doctrine means "eternal life in torment".


I.E., "death" means "death". Wow, what an amazing concept!

As far as ypu know. You simply depend on your set to tell you what Scripture "really means", which often has little of nothing to do with what it actually says.

At least your theology is consistent, you apply the same false premiss to all of your interpretations, so imagine I'm using my broad brush with blood red paint and putting a big red X over every single one of your theories.

Now to cut them all down, we'll start with your private interpretation of 2 Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance".

Here Peter is addressing Born Again Believers, saying the Lord is longsuffering (patient) towards (Us, the elect, the born again believers) This exhortation was given to encourage the brethren, of whom some were concerned about why the Lord Jesus doesn't judge the world and cast all the unbelievers into hell right away.

It was to reassure the brethren that the Lord Jesus will take vengeance on our behalf and cast all the unbelievers into hell, at the appointed time and that's when the very last one of Gods elect is added to the Body of Christ, then all hell will break lose and Christ will pour out His wrath and take vengeance on our behalf.

So that verse was about assuring Gods elect that He will judge the world at His appointed time so we can rest in the knowledge that justice will be served.

God promised to torment unbelievers in hell forever, you reject what He said because you obviously don't like it. But you can't make it go away, just because it hurts your feelings.

I would suggest you do a study on the Biblical interpretation of the words "life and death". You're not even in the same universe with your interpretation, but your not alone in denying the truth of the gospel. The Lord Jesus said, in
"Matthew 7:22-23
"Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’" "And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’"

And guess where they will depart to, YES!!! it's THE LAKE OF FIRE TO BE TROMENTED DAY AND NIGHT FOREVER AND EVER'

 

[timothyu]

There is only one gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ

Agreed, (as He said over 70x) His only gospel was of the Kingdom and that was why He was sent..