Young earth vs Old earth?

[throughfierytrial]

Exodus 20:10-11:

10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

God has the Isrealites follow the pattern he set during His creation.
(an answer to one of your questions)

Would you agree that God's rest is the same in Genesis 2:3 and Psalm 95:11?
If God's rest ended 24 hours after God ended his creation works, how could persons enter into that rest?
Would you agree that the day the Lord God made the earth and heavens could not be a literal 24 hour day?
Would you agree that day in Genesis therefore need not be a literal 24 hour day?

The rests in the 2 Scriptures are referring to the same...most of the Isrealites did not enter Canaan due to their sin...only two from that generation the remaining Isrealites to enter Canaaan were their offspring, but the promise was fulfilled...fulfilled in their offspring, but I'm not certain you've done the reading or study.
I believe the creation days were literal days. I do not agree that the day in Genesis need not be a literal 24 hour day.

 

[throughfierytrial]

Why would the earth being formless suggest that it wasn't growing in age while being formless?

Where is your Scripture knowledge being demonstrated here? or maybe you do not profess to be well versed in Scripture.
I provided Psalm 33:9 which states that God spoke the universe into existence and Hebrews 11 which states...3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

 

[throughfierytrial]

Understand Hebrews 4:7-9:

7 God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.” This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in the passage already quoted:
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”[a]
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;

 

[throughfierytrial]

Understand Hebrews 4:7-9:

7 God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.” This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in the passage already quoted:
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”[a]
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;

Are you following my dialogue? Enough said from me right now. Perhaps others could add to this discussion.

 

[throughfierytrial]

Why would the earth being formless suggest that it wasn't growing in age while being formless?

This appears to be God's proof that He Himself *created* but you are arguing against this case! He created the world out of nothing...it's what create means...something out of nothing. You are calling God's statements into question!

 

[CoreyD]

Exodus 20:10-11:

10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

God has the Isrealites follow the pattern he set during His creation.
(an answer to one of your questions)

The rests in the 2 Scriptures are referring to the same...most of the Isrealites did not enter Canaan due to their sin...only two from that generation the remaining Isrealites to enter Canaaan were their offspring, but the promise was fulfilled...fulfilled in their offspring, but I'm not certain you've done the reading or study.

Thank you.
Didn't God rest on the seventh day, and blessed and sanctified that day?
If that day was 24 hours long, how could it be entering Canaan?

I believe the creation days were literal days. I do not agree that the day in Genesis need not be a literal 24 hour day.

It would have been nice if you you had addressed my points so we could have a discussion.
Would you mind responding to my Bible references, and questions?

 

[CoreyD]

This appears to be God's proof that He Himself *created* but you are arguing against this case! He created the world out of nothing...it's what create means...something out of nothing. You are calling God's statements into question!

Can you show me which dictionary says 'create' means 'something out of nothing'.
I am familiar only with dictionaries defining 'create' as 'bring into existence'.
It's not possible to create something out of nothing.
The Bible says at Isaiah 40:26 God created out of his vigor; power; force; substance; energy.

 

[throughfierytrial]

Thank you.
Didn't God rest on the seventh day, and blessed and sanctified that day?
If that day was 24 hours long, how could it be entering Canaan?


It would have been nice if you you had addressed my points so we could have a discussion.
Would you mind responding to my Bible references, and questions?

So sorry, I am trying to keep up with your barage of questions which have faulty reasoning.
God rested on the 7th day... some Isrealites it appears did not understand this is also a reference to our heavenly rest not the earthly rest in Canaan...witness the Hebrews 4 7-9 passages. This is saying the promise of eternal rest still stands...Joshua who led the Isrealites into Canaan for their earthly rest did not achieve that rest, God rested on the 7th day and this was their pattern to follow...they too were to rest on that 7th day and He tells them why in the commandment I cited you already. There is symbolism to follow in Scripture...Proverbs tells us this, Paul unravels some, Jesus unravels much of it.
Joshua 22:4:
4 Now that the Lord your God has given them rest as he promised, return to your homes in the land that Moses the servant of the Lord gave you on the other side of the Jordan.
This is a flavor of the the land of rest, the promised land, Canaan which turns out to be only a symbol of eternal rest...heaven

 

[throughfierytrial]

Can you show me which dictionary says 'create' means 'something out of nothing'.
I am familiar only with dictionaries defining 'create' as 'bring into existence'.
It's not possible to create something out of nothing.
The Bible says at Isaiah 40:26 God created out of his vigor; power; force; substance; energy.

Dictionary??? Is that your spiritual guide...who wrote a dictionary? fallible mankind. I already quoted you Psalm33:9 and Hebrews 11:3 and that is my answer.

 

[throughfierytrial]

Dictionary??? Is that your spiritual guide...who wrote a dictionary? fallible mankind. I already quoted you Psalm33:9 and Hebrews 11:3 and that is my answer.

Is anything too difficult for God? Do you deny all His miracles?

 

[Job 33:6]

This appears to be God's proof that He Himself *created* but you are arguing against this case! He created the world out of nothing...it's what create means...something out of nothing. You are calling God's statements into question!

Genesis doesn't say that God created out of nothing. The earth was formless. The earth was not non-existent.

If I create a sign post, is that creation out of nothing? That is not what create inherently means.

 

[Job 33:6]

Dictionary??? Is that your spiritual guide...who wrote a dictionary? fallible mankind. I already quoted you Psalm33:9 and Hebrews 11:3 and that is my answer.

Lets look at the Bible:
Isaiah 54:16 NIV
[16] “See, it is I who created the blacksmith who fans the coals into flame and forges a weapon fit for its work. And it is I who have created the destroyer to wreak havoc;

God created a blacksmith.

Isaiah 43:15 NIV
[15] I am the Lord, your Holy One, Israel’s Creator, your King.”

God created Israel.
Ezekiel 21:19 NIV
[19] “Son of man, mark out two roads for the sword of the king of Babylon to take, both starting from the same country. [Create] a signpost where the road branches off to the city.

Here Ezekiel is commanded to bara a signpost, or create it/make it.

Psalms 51:10 NIV
[10] Create in me a pure heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit within me.

God creates a pure heart in the psalmist.

Isaiah 43:1 NIV
[1] But now, this is what the Lord says— he who created you, Jacob, he who formed you, Israel: “Do not fear, for I have redeemed you; I have summoned you by name; you are mine.

God created Jacob etc.

When God creates in the old testament, it is not suggesting that any of the above simply materially appeared out of nothing.

That's a misunderstanding about the Bible.

 

[throughfierytrial]

Lets look at the Bible:
Isaiah 54:16 NIV
[16] “See, it is I who created the blacksmith who fans the coals into flame and forges a weapon fit for its work. And it is I who have created the destroyer to wreak havoc;

God created a blacksmith.

Isaiah 43:15 NIV
[15] I am the Lord, your Holy One, Israel’s Creator, your King.”

God created Israel.
Ezekiel 21:19 NIV
[19] “Son of man, mark out two roads for the sword of the king of Babylon to take, both starting from the same country. [Create] a signpost where the road branches off to the city.

Here Ezekiel is commanded to bara a signpost, or create it/make it.

Psalms 51:10 NIV
[10] Create in me a pure heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit within me.

God creates a pure heart in the psalmist.

Isaiah 43:1 NIV
[1] But now, this is what the Lord says— he who created you, Jacob, he who formed you, Israel: “Do not fear, for I have redeemed you; I have summoned you by name; you are mine.

God created Jacob etc.

When God creates in the old testament, it is not suggesting that any of the above simply materially appeared out of nothing.

That's a misunderstanding about the Bible.

2 Timothy 3:5:

5 having a form of godliness but denying its power.

 

[throughfierytrial]

2 Timothy 3:5:

5 having a form of godliness but denying its power.

This is what you are doing!

Godless days!
I already posted the passages explaining create… Psalm 33:9 and Hebrews 11:3
Reflect on this I pray!
Bye and may the Lord open yours eyes as to His mighty works and power!

 

[Job 33:6]

2 Timothy 3:5:

5 having a form of godliness but denying its power.

I'm reading the Bible. Do you have a response for the verses that I've shared? And to be clear, no one is saying that God didn't create out of nothing. The question is, is that what Genesis is describing when it says that God created the heavens and the earth.

As we see in the passages I've shared, bara - to create, in the old testament does not mean "out of nothing". So when Genesis says that God created the heavens and the earth, it is not actually reasonable to simply assume that is what it is saying.

Indeed, Genesis says that the earth was formless. It does not say that the earth didn't exist at all.

 

[ARBITER01]

Which one is biblical? explain why.

Biblical?

In my opinion,...... let me state that again for those that like to argue,..... in my opinion,..... the old earth.

Trying to force a young earth position has to completely ignore all material evidence ever attained over the centuries, and that is just absolutely foolish. Finis Dake had it right as well as Scofield.

 

[CoreyD]

So sorry, I am trying to keep up with your barage of questions which have faulty reasoning.

I'm sorry. You aren't up to a discussion then?
My mistake. I thought you said you were.

The question, If God's rest ended 24 hours after God ended his creation works, how could persons enter into that rest? is not only reasonable. It follows logic, since if one says the seventh day is literally 24 hours long, then that seventh day rest ended in Genesis 2, before Adam and Eve had sexual relations.
Therefore, to say that the 'rest' Israel had the prospect of entering is God's rest, as stated at Genesis 2:2, 3 would be impossible. Not logical

Perhaps you don't understand the import of the question. Or perhaps you do.
Whatever the case, you aren't ready for any discussion. So, I'll leave you to it.

God rested on the 7th day... some Isrealites it appears did not understand this is also a reference to our heavenly rest not the earthly rest in Canaan...witness the Hebrews 4 7-9 passages. This is saying the promise of eternal rest still stands...Joshua who led the Isrealites into Canaan for their earthly rest did not achieve that rest, God rested on the 7th day and this was their pattern to follow...they too were to rest on that 7th day and He tells them why in the commandment I cited you already. There is symbolism to follow in Scripture...Proverbs tells us this, Paul unravels some, Jesus unravels much of it.
Joshua 22:4:
4 Now that the Lord your God has given them rest as he promised, return to your homes in the land that Moses the servant of the Lord gave you on the other side of the Jordan.
This is a flavor of the the land of rest, the promised land, Canaan which turns out to be only a symbol of eternal rest...heaven

The other question, Could you provide the scripture that specifically says God "pointed them to the promise of heaven? was asked for you to support the claim that "God rested on the 7th day... is also a reference to our heavenly rest" which isn't anywhere in the Bible.
Hence, why the question remains unanswered.

However, you take care throughfiierytrial.

 

[throughfierytrial]

I'm reading the Bible. Do you have a response for the verses that I've shared? And to be clear, no one is saying that God didn't create out of nothing. The question is, is that what Genesis is describing when it says that God created the heavens and the earth.

As we see in the passages I've shared, bara - to create, in the old testament does not mean "out of nothing". So when Genesis says that God created the heavens and the earth, it is not actually reasonable to simply assume that is what it is saying.

Indeed, Genesis says that the earth was formless. It does not say that the earth didn't exist at all.

No, God created you and all people before the creation of the world and he endows skills knowledge and wisdom. Refute Psalm 33:9 and Hebrews 11:3 and see my original post. Our differences are such that I feel we should end here. I pray the Lord will impart wisdom and that our discussion will prove to have been fruitful… if not now then maybe in the future.

 

[throughfierytrial]

I'm sorry. You aren't up to a discussion then?
My mistake. I thought you said you were.

The question, If God's rest ended 24 hours after God ended his creation works, how could persons enter into that rest? is not only reasonable. It follows logic, since if one says the seventh day is literally 24 hours long, then that seventh day rest ended in Genesis 2, before Adam and Eve had sexual relations.
Therefore, to say that the 'rest' Israel had the prospect of entering is God's rest, as stated at Genesis 2:2, 3 would be impossible. Not logical

Perhaps you don't understand the import of the question. Or perhaps you do.
Whatever the case, you aren't ready for any discussion. So, I'll leave you to it.


The other question, Could you provide the scripture that specifically says God "pointed them to the promise of heaven? was asked for you to support the claim that "God rested on the 7th day... is also a reference to our heavenly rest" which isn't anywhere in the Bible.
Hence, why the question remains unanswered.

However, you take care throughfiierytrial.

I gave you that answer too. Hebrews 4:8

 

[Job 33:6]

No, God created you and all people before the creation of the world and he endows skills knowledge and wisdom. Refute Psalm 33:9 and Hebrews 11:3 and see my original post. Our differences are such that I feel we should end here. I pray the Lord will impart wisdom and that our discussion will prove to have been fruitful… if not now then maybe in the future.

Again, no one is saying that God didn't create ex nihilo. The question is, is that the specific creation event that Genesis is describing? Hebrews is not a retelling of Genesis. It's a completely different book of the Bible written several hundred years later by a different author. So it's an assumption that because the idea is in Hebrews, that Genesis therefore is saying that specific idea.

And Psalm 33:9 says nothing of ex nihilo creation. It just says that God spoke and it was done, which we all agree on. Also when Psalm 33:9 states "it stood fast" that does not imply ex nihilo creation, rather it implies that God spoke and something that already existed stood fast.

As a matter of fact, just read the passage:

Psalms 33:6-9 NASB1995
[6] By the word of the Lord the heavens were made, And by the breath of His mouth all their host. [7] He gathers the waters of the sea together as a heap; He lays up the deeps in storehouses. [8] Let all the earth fear the Lord; Let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of Him. [9] For He spoke, and it was done; He commanded, and it stood fast.

The passage parallels Genesis, but as we can see, in creation of the heavens, the waters were separated and restrained just like in Genesis day 2, and the earth stood fast when He spoke.

The objects of creation are already present in these verses. And you can search the entire old testament high and low, this is how it is always described, as including pre existing material.