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SNAP benefits ( gentally)

Larniavc

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Another reason why people should seek marriage. Individual income is a sneaky way to complain about wages. If you are married the poverty rate is about 4%. So claiming that 44% is low wages and rhen trying to claim all these people are living on that is a bit decieving.
It's not deceiving. Are you seriously saying the fix for poor wages is getting married? Do you want to live in the 19th century where social mobility was nearly zero because everyone knew their place? That's what you are advocating.
 
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Tropical Wilds

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But we aren't talking about how churches or Christians should operate. We are talking about how a SECULAR government should operate. Are you making some sort of argument that the government should operate according to your view of what the Bible says?
Oh so NOW you want a secular government, when the Bible tells you to feed and clothe people and you don’t want to. That might mean you have less disposable income and your burger is $12 and that’s just not ok.

Abortion and gay marriage and trans-rights and civil rights and religious freedom and secular education? Why, pound your fist on the table and yell something about how the nation was a better place when we were a moral, Christian nation who put God in our classrooms, government, and bedrooms.

But God commands you to feed, clothe, bathe, and make a place for the poor at your table? Gross. No thanks. Hard pass.

Wait until you find out that making sure people don’t die of preventable things, like starvation, malnutrition, and from being unhoused are actually secular values, too. Generally speaking, people with a sense of ethics and morality don’t believe in mass marginalization of underserved people. Weird, I know, but true.
 
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Larniavc

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rjs330

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“Illegals” don’t get it,
Yeah they do. You seem ill informed. No they can't get it directly from the feds, but through the states they most certainly do.
Somebody on food stamps needs to eat an “unhealthy” food to make it though their day? Go for it. I’ll help them load their cart and yell “mind your business” to anybody who gets upset.
Fine you just don't that. And we'll still believe that it is our business because its our money they are spending. Its not theirs. If it were we would mind our own business.
You clearly do not work consistently with under-serviced, underprivileged people, nor have any idea the differences between money being tight and money being absent.

Actually I do. Thats how I know. Ive worked with the poor for almost 40 years now. Thats why Im very compassionate to the disabled or those who are really unable to function due to disease or illness. I see so often where our money could be going to them instead of the able bodied poor who are seriously leaching off the system. Ive seen those living off the system who could be working to get off but wont. Then they continually make poor decisions buying drugs etc and then whining when their benefits dont cover all their bills. Ive seen the piles of junk food, candy, soda etc that they pile into their pantries and fridges.

I've also watched as so many of the hard working poor get out of poverty in a relatively short period of time because they have grit and determination to not live that way. They want out and get out. And it doesn't take them that long.
Have a Crohn’s flare and then come back to talk to me about how people who are sick can and should eat.

I want to apologize for how I said things. I came across much harsher than I meant to. Like I said I've seen the issues with the disease. I wasnt trying to tell you what you had to eat when you are having a flare up. It probably sounded like it, but I seriously wasnt trying to. My apologies.
If I wandered into a food bank and handed somebody a pot, or wandered into a homeless shelter and gave them a box of mac and cheese and a saucepan, I’d have done nothing

Back to it. I could provide evidence as to how the poor live in America. But I dont think you'd listen. I wasn't talking about the homeless living in shelters. Those folks are too addicted and too mentally ill to really care for themselves. If you gave one of them a pot they would sell it and go buy their booze or drugs with it. So that would be a total waste. Your better off just buying them a sandwich and a winter coat.

In all actuality we ought to take them off the street and put them in a facility because they aren't capable of taking care of themselves.
 
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JosephZ

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Yeah they do. You seem ill informed. No they can't get it directly from the feds, but through the states they most certainly do.
Undocumented immigrants do not receive SNAP benefits in any state.
 
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rjs330

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Oh so NOW you want a secular government, when the Bible tells you to feed and clothe people and you don’t want to. That might mean you have less disposable income and your burger is $12 and that’s just not ok.

Yes I want a secular government. We dont live in a theocracy. Never have. The only theocracy I want to live under is the one where Jesus himself is ruling. Otherwise we are atill just living under the authority of man.

When the Bible tells you that those who dont work shouldnt eat, do you believe that as well? Or do you only believe the parts you want to?
Abortion and gay marriage and trans-rights and civil rights and religious freedom and secular education?
You must be talking about someone else. I've always tried to steer clear of religious arguments against those things. Too many prople dont care or believe and it just falls on deaf ears. There are plenty of other arguments to use.

Its funny how we have too many people who only want to use the Bible to support their view of how government should run rather than all of it. You know what, how about we use all of it. We'll take care of the poor, but then outlaw homosexuality, adultery, and abortion. Then we'll also include that if you don't work you shouldn't eat. Can we agree to do that? Or do you just want to use the Bible as a club to say we should use tax payer money for the poor, but nothing else because you don't think we should.

Thats the danger with playing with the scripture that way. Either take it all or leave it all. What do you want to do? Pick and choose?
 
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rjs330

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Undocumented immigrants do not receive SNAP benefits in any state.

False they most certainly do. You see they do by proxy or by other means. They may not be able to go to the federal snap directly but one way they access it is by having a baby in the US and getting it that way.

Biden and Harris deferred deportation status to illegals to get them on Snap.

The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimated that the surge in illegal immigration from Biden’s border policies will cause $15 billion in Food Stamp benefits to be paid to illegal immigrants and their children by FY 20234.

So there were ways around this.
 
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JosephZ

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. They may not be able to go to the federal snap directly but one way they access it is by having a baby in the US and getting it that way.
Yes, the child will receive benefits as a US citizen, but the parents will not. Those benefits received wouldn't be enough to feed the entire family.

The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimated that the surge in illegal immigration from Biden’s border policies will cause $15 billion in Food Stamp benefits to be paid to illegal immigrants and their children by FY 20234.
According to that report, those eligible for benefits are US born children (citizens), refugees, asylees, and those who become lawful permanent residents after 5 years. No individuals who are in the country illegally are included.

Effects of the Immigration Surge on the Federal Budget and the Economy

Undocumented immigrants are generally ineligible for federal benefits such as the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP), Medicaid, and premium tax credits for health insurance purchased through the marketplaces established under the Affordable Care Act. However, their U.S.-born children are eligible for those benefits because they are U.S. citizens.

CBO estimates that 35 percent of the surge population is eligible for federal benefits in 2024, mostly refugees and asylees. That share rises over time as some immigrants gain lawful permanent resident status and U.S.-born children are added to the population.

CBO based its estimates of eligibility on current law, which generally bars undocumented immigrants from receiving federal means-tested benefits but allows certain groups—such as refugees, asylees, and lawful permanent residents who have been in the country for at least five years—to receive them.
 
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Tropical Wilds

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It's not deceiving. Are you seriously saying the fix for poor wages is getting married? Do you want to live in the 19th century where social mobility was nearly zero because everyone knew their place? That's what you are advocating.
This whole thread has been about how to enforce a somewhat clandestine caste system because some people can only measure their success by counting the number of people they're able to look at and readily see are more destitute than they are. The "if I can't have more, you need to have less" mentality. I'll never reach the peak of Everest, so I'll just point and laugh at the lack of gumption of everybody who didn't get as far as I did.

Meanwhile, the people who think the measure of success is to be able to look at a clothed, fed, housed, and educated society where a non-significant chunk of the population is struggling for the basics. I'll never reach the peak of Everest either, but I'd rather facilitate as many people as possible getting as far as they can than laugh at everybody who's sliding down.

We're all one life-changing disaster away from needing Snap. Nobody is one life-changing disaster away from being a billionaire. Let's say it's not a moral or ethical issue, it's purely a best-interests scenario. Even then, there is no logical reason to not protecting the programs any of us could wake up to find out we need tomorrow.
 
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Tropical Wilds

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Be trapped in a cycle of work induced poverty in a financially enforced class system.
cousin-eddie-bingo.gif
 
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Tropical Wilds

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I'd forgotten "nutrition" was in the very name. Do Snicker bars assist with nutrition? :)
Fun fact: my grandfather (who was on Snap towards the end) was losing tons of weight for no discernable (at the time) reason, and he was a pill about sitting down to meals or remembering to eat because his hunger drive was absent. He loved candy, though. So you know what the nutritionist suggested? Candy bars, specifically one's with nuts in it, and not the low-sugar candy. When he thinks of it, grab a candy and eat it. One small Snickers bar, two bites, 80 calories. His doctor signed off on it, calling it brilliant. He (rightly) pointed out getting zero calories of any type and losing 20 pounds a month for a guy who weighed 180 to start was a disaster and making a man who didn't feel hungry sit down and eat a well-rounded meal of suitable calories and nutrients wasn't going to happen. It was better to eat something and get the calories needed for basic bodily functions than it was to adopt a "I'm on a diet so I shouldn't eat candy" mentality for somebody who didn't need to lose weight. He went from eating an average of 400 calories a day to eating about 1,700. He stopped losing weight, his heart murmur eased, his headaches, anemia, and exhaustion all levelled out, and he went on to live another several years. His weight was never a concern again.

It suddenly gives me absolute peak levels of delight to think that somewhere in Florida, somebody frothed and fumed at the sight of my grandfather with a cart loaded with juice, soda, and candy whip out his Snap card to pay for it all because that's what his doctor, nutritionist, cardiologist, and his counselor all called it a brilliant plan to get a stubborn old man to eat.
 
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Chesterton

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Fun fact:
Honestly, I've seen funner facts.

You're talking about a person with an abnormal condition. The vast majority of people are happy to eat food.
 
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rambot

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When the Bible tells you that those who dont work shouldnt eat, do you believe that as well?
But you KNOW that's not the EXACT verse right?

"if they are unwilling to work..." is the word that is important there. That gives a lot of space for those people who are willing and want to work but can't. In the verse previous, Paul even says that they would be entitled to charity whether or NOT him and his people were hard at work.


Nevermind the fact that 44% of SNAP recipients ALREADY WORK (making the point, at least kinda moot).

But yes, I DO believe that.


I also appreciate this exegenesis on that particular passage:
If a Person Doesn’t Work, Let Them Eat Anyway

You may not like it though because the argument is that the verse shouldn't be used to withhold food from people.
 
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rambot

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Honestly, I've seen funner facts.

You're talking about a person with an abnormal condition. The vast majority of people are happy to eat food.
The point I am confident Tropical Winds is trying to make is that, without knowing anyone's circumstances, y'all best STHU because it ain't your business.
 
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rambot

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This whole thread has been about how to enforce a somewhat clandestine caste system because some people can only measure their success by counting the number of people they're able to look at and readily see are more destitute than they are. The "if I can't have more, you need to have less" mentality. I'll never reach the peak of Everest, so I'll just point and laugh at the lack of gumption of everybody who didn't get as far as I did.

Meanwhile, the people who think the measure of success is to be able to look at a clothed, fed, housed, and educated society where a non-significant chunk of the population is struggling for the basics. I'll never reach the peak of Everest either, but I'd rather facilitate as many people as possible getting as far as they can than laugh at everybody who's sliding down.

We're all one life-changing disaster away from needing Snap. Nobody is one life-changing disaster away from being a billionaire. Let's say it's not a moral or ethical issue, it's purely a best-interests scenario. Even then, there is no logical reason to not protecting the programs any of us could wake up to find out we need tomorrow.
Right wingers want the poor to make healthy food choices and so they want to find ways to CONTROL what those people eat.

Left wingers want the poor to make healthy food choices but recognize it isn't up to us as to what they choose to eat. We have no need to control them though certainly we would hope they would choose the food that they need.\


In fact, I'm beginning to see a HUGE irony in all of this. The 2 Thess. 3 verse that quote misquoted above actually warns Christians against being "busybodies"...and expressed that they were being such busybodies they were refusing to work.

I gotta tell ya....the way Conservatives are trying so hard to influence these programs, it seems like a TEXTBOOK example of being a busybody. Funny how everything folds on itself and irony remains.
 
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It feels hard when data suggests a wider truth that is opposite of what we hold closest.

Fact is, the reason you and your family has been successful is because of the YOUR capacity and dedication to your kids success. Not all parents have that and not all disabilities are conquerable for people. Also as hard as a lot of people try it just simply is not enough. Folks working jobs or two jobs still needing snap...remember the dozen times democrats have posted that Walmart and Amazon employees end up on food programs? This is rubber hitting the road.
I happen to be disabled with a mix of conditions that would make working hard ( most entry level positions have skills I could not do or at least not without getting fired for not be quick and effective enough ( this is even IF I could shower, dress and get there ( none of which I can do without assistance or in a reasonable time. I still feel that while disabled people deserve some quality of life you cannot expect the same benefits that other people get simply because at the end of the day beggars can't be choosers and so if you say I need assistance with the basics you cannot be particularly choosly about what you get ( Now, that is not to say that they should get NOTHING ( in fact I feel that SSI (the welfare disability program should get some more money and be based on where you live and not a flat rate. My point in all of this is that even as someone who IS disabled I realize that if other people are supporting me I cannot expect the finer things. Currently, I am on my late father's SSDI (the non-welfare disability benefits there is and should be a difference.
 
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Tropical Wilds

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Yeah they do. You seem ill informed.
I absolutely not ill informed. You forget, my darling, I work extensively with food-related charity which includes having counselors come in and help people apply for benefits. Guess what comes up on page one of the application, both paper and online? "Are you a US citizen?" followed by "Do you have valid documentation that proves US citizenship?"

That question, by the way, is often is the question that nukes people, especially homeless, from getting help with Snap programs. That home address you have and take for granted? Without that, everything from drivers licenses, Real ID, military ID, non-drivers ID, even the means to verify identity in order to get your birth certificate that proves citizenship becomes insanely difficult.

You, my friend, have invented a boogeyman that illegals get benefits, then because you're scared of the boogeyman you've invented, have made a determination about programs that provide people with support is broken, thus nobody deserves support. You smashed your table for 100 people because you'd rather 95 people who didn't have continue to not have because there's a risk that 5 people get something they "don't deserve."

No they can't get it directly from the feds, but through the states they most certainly do.
They most certainly do not. See above.

Fine you just don't that. And we'll still believe that it is our business because its our money they are spending. Its not theirs. If it were we would mind our own business.
So if I were to see somebody at the grocery store who I know as my regular Wal-Mart cashier, walk up to their cart, and tell them what was in it was my business because my money goes to the employer which pays them and therefore it's my job to tell them how to spend what was my money... Would that make me a sane person? Or a crazy person?

Or if I saw a police officer buy a game console for their kids that I can't afford for my kids, I would be well within my rights to say "How dare you! My taxes pay your salary!" and he'd have no right to tell me to mind my business?

Tell me, how long is the chain of custody for a dollar that used to be yours? If it was yours, but you spent it in taxes, you have a right to tell people who use a federally-funded program how to spend that dollar? When the dollar is received by a corporation and dispersed to employees, do you have a right to go to the employee and say "that dollar was mine, but then I spent it in taxes that funded Snap, which paid for a product somebody got, then was dispersed through your pay, so here's how I want you to spend it..." Considering that the economy works, every dollar that you or I or anybody has will have always come from elsewhere. Can somebody who used to have my dollar rear their head like a long-lost relative and start making demands? Just how many filters must it pass through before it's not "yours" anymore?

Or, better yet, how about this... Snap costs the government $100 billion each year. Let's be crazy and assume that you pay $100,000 in taxes each year, not the average $13k that is average (if including billionaires in the metric, if we aren't then it's much lower). Actually, let's get whackers bonkers crazy. Let's say you paid $1 million in taxes each year and 100% of it is spent entirely on Snap... Nothing else. Just Snap.

Do you really believe that because you funded 0.001% of the Snap program, you now should have enough influence to dictate what 100% of the people must do with the money? I'd be willing to compromise and give you 0.001% influence over their spending habits, but 100%? Nah. I am willing to negotiate, though. Out of the average 13k spent by Americans (including billionaires) on taxes, $323 goes to fund Snap. 2.5% of what you pay in taxes. If you want 2.5% influence over their spending, I'm willing to give you that.

You're welcome.

Actually I do. Thats how I know. Ive worked with the poor for almost 40 years now. Thats why Im very compassionate to the disabled or those who are really unable to function due to disease or illness. I see so often where our money could be going to them instead of the able bodied poor who are seriously leaching off the system. Ive seen those living off the system who could be working to get off but wont. Then they continually make poor decisions buying drugs etc and then whining when their benefits dont cover all their bills. Ive seen the piles of junk food, candy, soda etc that they pile into their pantries and fridges.
It's not super compassionate to the disabled to cut their benefits or defund Snap because you've got a superficial snapshot of another third party's life, judged them by a non-standard you specific and arbitrary metric, found them wanting, and labeled them a leech, and therefore because they're not conducting themselves to your standard, everybody's benefits should be cut.

Again, you've told the 95 that because you found 5 people who aren't good enough for you, all 100 of them should be punished.

I've also watched as so many of the hard working poor get out of poverty in a relatively short period of time because they have grit and determination to not live that way. They want out and get out. And it doesn't take them that long.
Ah, the ol' bootstraps mentality. The one people like to trot out because it means they don't have to credit luck, generational advantages, and other outside factors for their own success. The one that they use to assuage the fear that the poverty they see could never happen to them because they're just better at life than somebody else. Harder workers. Smarter. Faster. Better.

To admit that we live in a system where people can work super hard and still fail is too scary. Better to just assign them the "less than" caste and sleep soundly than worry that you're one injury, disaster, illness, job loss, or death away from needing the same services they do.

I want to apologize for how I said things. I came across much harsher than I meant to. Like I said I've seen the issues with the disease. I wasnt trying to tell you what you had to eat when you are having a flare up. It probably sounded like it, but I seriously wasnt trying to. My apologies.
Noted and accepted. Thank you.

Back to it. I could provide evidence as to how the poor live in America. But I dont think you'd listen.
I listen to facts, not subjectivity. I take those facts and fold them in with my knowledge. Having worked a significant time each year on food-related causes, "most people are lazy and lack gumption" is not enough to overcome what I know as truth based off of what I see, have experienced, and know to be statistically correct.

I wasn't talking about the homeless living in shelters. Those folks are too addicted and too mentally ill to really care for themselves. If you gave one of them a pot they would sell it and go buy their booze or drugs with it. So that would be a total waste. Your better off just buying them a sandwich and a winter coat.
So you're not talking about a large segment of the population that needs the service but undermines the validity of your position that people who are in these scenarios are there because they lack grit, a work ethic, and spend their money poorly...?

In all actuality we ought to take them off the street and put them in a facility because they aren't capable of taking care of themselves.
So we should marry off the women and round up and institutionalize the mentally ill...?

Uh... No thanks.
 
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Chesterton

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The point I am confident Tropical Winds is trying to make is that, without knowing anyone's circumstances, y'all best STHU because it ain't your business.
Fair enough. I'll go do some research. I'll ask AI how many Americans don't like to eat food.
 
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Tropical Wilds

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Yes I want a secular government. We dont live in a theocracy. Never have. The only theocracy I want to live under is the one where Jesus himself is ruling. Otherwise we are atill just living under the authority of man.

When the Bible tells you that those who dont work shouldnt eat, do you believe that as well? Or do you only believe the parts you want to?
You must be talking about someone else. I've always tried to steer clear of religious arguments against those things. Too many prople dont care or believe and it just falls on deaf ears. There are plenty of other arguments to use.

Its funny how we have too many people who only want to use the Bible to support their view of how government should run rather than all of it. You know what, how about we use all of it. We'll take care of the poor, but then outlaw homosexuality, adultery, and abortion. Then we'll also include that if you don't work you shouldn't eat. Can we agree to do that? Or do you just want to use the Bible as a club to say we should use tax payer money for the poor, but nothing else because you don't think we should.

Thats the danger with playing with the scripture that way. Either take it all or leave it all. What do you want to do? Pick and choose?
I'd rather we had an ethical secular government that didn't feel that the way to get by is to set up a financial caste system through hiding advancement, healthcare, and a standard level of basic living behind an unbelievably high pay wall and/or require adequate performance of humility and shame in order to access it.
 
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