AI understands the Sabbath and Col 2:16

[SabbathBlessings]

Keeping the Ten Commandments does not save anyone for it is not the source.

The Source is the One who gave us the Ten Commandments, it is His Testimony and said If we love Me, keep them. So its weird to pit the Source against what the Source says. I guess that why Jesus said....Luke 6:46 Mat 7:21-23

Salvation lifts us beyond the letter of the law and into relationship with God.

Of course, Jesus demonstrated this by two examples of the Ten Commandments and demonstrated how one not keeping the letter of the law is because of the heart issue. If the heart issue is fixed, God's law is going to be kept, not broken. Why Jesus said plainly

Mat 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

You keep making it sound as if the Spirit is leading us away from God's Law, but that is not something being taught in Scriptures. Isa8:20

If one feels that God wants them to do something on a certain day, then they should because they want to obey God. But they then must not insist other's do the same.

God's commandments is not a feeling, what God wrote and spoke that Jesus said we should live by Mat4:4 was never delivered as if you want to obey My commandments and feel like it do so, but all others who do not feel like it, that's okay too. I think the fact God delivered them as the Ten Commandments and not the Ten suggestions, or the Ten recommendations says it all Deut4:13 Exo34:28

Not something that ever worked out before Eze22:26 Eze20:13, I do not think it will again Heb4:11 but we are given free will.

 

[guevaraj]

If one feels that God wants them to do something on a certain day, then they should because they want to obey God. But they then must not insist other's do the same.

Brother, what if Jesus in the New Testament wants us to correct something we're doing wrong?

Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)​

It is here, in the context where the language used by God expresses its importance to Jesus, that we understand it correctly.

God’s promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” But in the other passage God said, “They will never enter my place of rest.” So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. GOD ANNOUNCED THIS THROUGH DAVID MUCH LATER in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now IF JOSHUA HAD SUCCEEDED IN GIVING THEM THIS REST, GOD WOULD NOT HAVE SPOKEN ABOUT ANOTHER DAY of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:1-11 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Mercy Shown]

Brother, what if Jesus in the New Testament wants us to correct something we're doing wrong?

Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)​

It is here, in the context where the language used by God expresses its importance to Jesus, that we understand it correctly.

God’s promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” But in the other passage God said, “They will never enter my place of rest.” So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. GOD ANNOUNCED THIS THROUGH DAVID MUCH LATER in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now IF JOSHUA HAD SUCCEEDED IN GIVING THEM THIS REST, GOD WOULD NOT HAVE SPOKEN ABOUT ANOTHER DAY of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:1-11 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

While Hebrews 4 certainly speaks of a “rest” that remains for the people of God, the text itself points beyond the weekly Sabbath to a greater and spiritual rest found in Christ. The writer shows that the promise of rest did not end with Israel’s entry into the land under Joshua, nor was it fulfilled in keeping the seventh-day Sabbath. If Joshua had given them that rest, God would not have spoken later through David of “another day.” This means that the rest being offered is not limited to a particular time or ritual but is something ongoing and available “today” to all who believe (Hebrews 4:7).

The writer of Hebrews carefully explains that “we who believe enter that rest” (v. 3). The entrance requirement is not law-keeping but faith. The Israelites failed to enter not because they neglected a day of rest but because of unbelief and disobedience (v. 6). Their example warns us that trying to approach God through works, rather than trusting in His finished work, leads to the same failure. The passage points to the gospel rest that comes through faith in Christ’s completed redemption — “For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did from his” (v. 10). In other words, those who believe cease striving to earn salvation and instead rest in what Christ has already done (John 19:30; Romans 4:5).

Hebrews 4:9 does say “there remains a Sabbath-rest for the people of God,” but the Greek word sabbatismos here signifies not the observance of a literal day but the spiritual rest that the Sabbath symbolized. It points to the believer’s ongoing rest in Christ, the true fulfillment of the shadow that was the seventh-day Sabbath (Colossians 2:16-17). Just as God rested after creation, so believers rest from their own works through faith in the finished work of the new creation in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17). Therefore, the “rest” that remains is not a weekly commandment but a daily reality for those who walk by faith.

Finally, the exhortation “let us do our best to enter that rest” (v. 11) calls believers not to renewed legal effort but to persevering faith and obedience to the gospel. It is a call to trust, not to toil — to guard against the unbelief that kept Israel from entering. Far from re-imposing the Mosaic Sabbath, Hebrews 4 lifts our eyes to a higher rest: the spiritual peace, confidence, and freedom that comes through union with Christ, who Himself said, “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest” (Matthew 11:28).

 

[Mercy Shown]

The Source is the One who gave us the Ten Commandments, it is His Testimony and said If we love Me, keep them. So its weird to pit the Source against what the Source says. I guess that why Jesus said....Luke 6:46 Mat 7:21-23

While Luke 6:46 emphasizes the importance of obedience to Jesus, it does not specify any particular command such as Sabbath observance. In this verse, Jesus is addressing a much broader principle: calling Him “Lord” while failing to follow His teachings is hypocritical. The key point is that true discipleship shows itself in a life shaped by faith and obedience, not merely by lip service. Immediately after this verse, Jesus illustrates this with the parable of the two builders (Luke 6:47–49), showing that the solid foundation is built by hearing and acting on His words, which encompasses the whole of His teaching, not a single ritual or day.

When we read this in the context of His ministry, we see that Christ consistently emphasized the heart of obedience — love for God and neighbor — rather than adherence to a particular day (Luke 6:27–36, 19:10). The New Testament repeatedly shows that salvation and obedience are not dependent on specific ceremonial or Sabbath rules (Romans 14:5–6; Colossians 2:16–17). Luke 6:46 therefore calls us to genuine, heartfelt obedience to Christ, expressed through faith, love, and trust, rather than the mechanical observance of one day of the week. In other words, obedience is a matter of following Christ’s teachings in our lives, not merely keeping a Sabbath in order to demonstrate faith.

Of course, Jesus demonstrated this by two examples of the Ten Commandments and demonstrated how one not keeping the letter of the law is because of the heart issue. If the heart issue is fixed, God's law is going to be kept, not broken. Why Jesus said plainly

Mat 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5:17–20 is often quoted to argue that Jesus affirmed the Law, including the Sabbath. In this passage, Jesus says He did not come to abolish the Law but to fulfill it, and that righteousness must exceed that of the Pharisees. The key word here is “fulfill.” Jesus’ fulfillment of the Law means He completed its purpose and embodied its true meaning, rather than abolishing its moral and spiritual intent. The Sabbath, like many parts of the Mosaic Law, pointed forward to Him — to the ultimate rest and redemption found in Christ (Colossians 2:16–17; Hebrews 4:1–10).


Jesus also repeatedly challenged the Pharisees’ legalistic approach to the Sabbath, emphasizing mercy, love, and human need over ritual strictness (Matthew 12:1–14; Mark 2:27–28). His teaching shows that the heart of the Law is obedience motivated by love, not mere day-keeping. When He said He fulfilled the Law, He was not giving a new list of commands to replace the old, but showing that salvation and true righteousness come through Him, not through ritual observance. Therefore, while the Sabbath remains a valuable symbol of God’s rest and God’s moral order, Matthew 5:17–20 points to obedience to Christ Himself, which includes mercy, faith, and love, rather than a strict requirement to keep the seventh day.

You keep making it sound as if the Spirit is leading us away from God's Law, but that is not something being taught in Scriptures. Isa8:20

That is the meaning you are inserting. God's Spirit is leading us to Jesus and the Father. To be in relationship to them as Brother and Father. Not in a litergical sense but in a real loving sense. As Jesus told the Pharasee's You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life. John 5:39-40

God's commandments is not a feeling, what God wrote and spoke that Jesus said we should live by Mat4:4 was never delivered as if you want to obey My commandments and feel like it do so, but all others who do not feel like it, that's okay too. I think the fact God delivered them as the Ten Commandments and not the Ten suggestions, or the Ten recommendations says it all Deut4:13 Exo34:28

Not something that ever worked out before Eze22:26 Eze20:13, I do not think it will again Heb4:11 but we are given free will.

You still have one foot in the old covenent. You admit on one hand that you are saved by faith and God's grace alone and then spend most of you time exorting others to keep the Ten Commandments with special ephasis on the 4th commandment. You are trying to live by them. The Spirit leads us to die to the law, through the law, that we might live to God. (Gal 2:19

You see the law is not done away with but we die to it, through it so that it might be fullfilled in us by Christ. The proper place for the Sabbath now becomes a gift to us, made for us. Sabbath waas made for man and not man for the sabbath. It should never be a means to salvation or a way to maintain salvation, or an icone of salvation, or a seal of salvation. It has nothing to do with salvation. It should be one of many things we enjoy in our relationship with Our Father and Brother.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Matthew 5:17–20 is often quoted to argue that Jesus affirmed the Law, including the Sabbath. In this passage, Jesus says He did not come to abolish the Law but to fulfill it, and that righteousness must exceed that of the Pharisees. The key word here is “fulfill.” Jesus’ fulfillment of the Law means He completed its purpose and embodied its true meaning, rather than abolishing its moral and spiritual intent. The Sabbath, like many parts of the Mosaic Law, pointed forward to Him — to the ultimate rest and redemption found in Christ

This is a misunderstanding of the Text and not looking at the entire context. Jesus didn't fulfil the law so we can profane. Why He said just a couple verses down.

Mat5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

This understanding makes zero sense if fulfilling the law meant we didn't have to keep. This is a huge warning Jesus is saying. Jesus does not want us to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments. This is so plain. If we look at the next verse least in heaven means not there. Mat5:20. The Pharisees were not keeping God's commandments, but instead their own man-made laws and Jesus condemned, Mat15:1-14 so following this same path is not exceeding their righteousness which we must do if we are going to see heaven.

Jesus never came to destroy the law or prophets but to fulfill. It was prophesized that Jesus would magnify His laws Isa 42:21 which means make greater, not smaller. Just like Jesus never came to end the prophecies of His Second Coming , yet to be fulfilled, just like He did not come to destroy the law, so fulfill cannot be the same thing to end. It means like fulfilling a wedding covenant- would you consider doing so free one to commit adultery? Jesus does not want us to commit adultery to Him, which we do when we break the first 4 commandments Exo 20:1-11 how to love God. Jesus wants us to love our neighbor which is fulfilled by keeping the last 6 of the commandments Rom 13:9

Why Jesus said

Mat 5: 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

And this has not been fulfilled therefor not a jot or tittle shall pass from the Law


Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Colossians 2:16–17;

Col 2:16 is talking about shadows, things that were contrary and against man. It doesn't point to any of the Ten Commandments that are holy, just and good, but animal sacrifices that were a shadow to come Heb10:1-10

The Sabbath started at Creation (can't be a shadow because it was when God made everything perfect before sin) and points us to our Creator Exo20:11- not contrary or against or a shadow. Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man, not against man Mark2:27 trying to use Paul out of context to say God made the Sabbath at Creation against man is really an attack on God's character. God blessed and sanctified the Sabbath day, that is not the definition to contrary or against.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

While Luke 6:46 emphasizes the importance of obedience to Jesus, it does not specify any particular command such as Sabbath observance. In this verse, Jesus is addressing a much broader principle: calling Him “Lord” while failing to follow His teachings is hypocritical. The key point is that true discipleship shows itself in a life shaped by faith and obedience, not merely by lip service. Immediately after this verse, Jesus illustrates this with the parable of the two builders (Luke 6:47–49), showing that the solid foundation is built by hearing and acting on His words, which encompasses the whole of His teaching, not a single ritual or day.

It would include everything God said Mat4:4 including the 4th commandment Exo20:8-11

 

[Mercy Shown]

This is a misunderstanding of the Text and not looking at the entire context. Jesus didn't fulfil the law so we can profane. Why He said just a couple verses down.

Mat5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

This understanding makes zero sense if fulfilling the law meant we didn't have to keep. This is a huge warning Jesus is saying. Jesus does not want us to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments. This is so plain. If we look at the next verse least in heaven means not there. Mat5:20. The Pharisees were not keeping God's commandments, but instead their own man-made laws and Jesus condemned, Mat15:1-14 so following this same path is not exceeding their righteousness which we must do if we are going to see heaven.

Do you have a secret wish that you could break the law but are afraid to do so? I ask because you keep implying that those that disagree with your denominations teachings are doing just that. No sincere christian wants to ignore the commands and instructions of their Lord and Saviour, elder brother amd King: Jesus Christ.

I am sure that you desire this same thing and thatis why you try to do it by fulfilling the law. But neither you nor I can fullfill the law. So here is the good news:

Romans 3:8-4 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.

Romans 10:4 – “For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.”
The Greek word telos can mean “end” (completion, fulfillment). Christ completes the Law so that righteousness comes through faith, not works.

Jesus never came to destroy the law or prophets but to fulfill. It was prophesized that Jesus would magnify His laws Isa 42:21 which means make greater, not smaller. Just like Jesus never came to end the prophecies of His Second Coming , yet to be fulfilled, just like He did not come to destroy the law, so fulfill cannot be the same thing to end. It means like fulfilling a wedding covenant- would you consider doing so free one to commit adultery? Jesus does not want us to commit adultery to Him, which we do when we break the first 4 commandments Exo 20:1-11 how to love God. Jesus wants us to love our neighbor which is fulfilled by keeping the last 6 of the commandments Rom 13:9

In His Sermon on the Mount, Jesus consistently moved from the letter of the Law to its deeper spiritual intent, revealing that outward obedience alone cannot fulfill God’s purposes. He declares in Matthew 5:17 that He has not come to abolish the Law but to fulfill it, emphasizing that its ultimate goal is righteousness from the heart. For instance, He goes beyond “You shall not murder” (Exodus 20:13) to say that even anger or contempt toward another person makes one liable to judgment (Matthew 5:21-22). In the same way, He intensifies “You shall not commit adultery” (Exodus 20:14) by showing that lustful thoughts are equally sinful (Matthew 5:27-28).


Jesus addresses oaths and honesty, pointing beyond “You shall not steal” and “You shall not bear false witness” (Exodus 20:15-16) to teach that integrity should be so natural in God’s children that elaborate promises are unnecessary (Matthew 5:33-37). The command to honor parents (Exodus 20:12) is reframed in a broader ethic of respect and love for all authorities and relationships. Regarding the Sabbath (Exodus 20:8-11), Jesus demonstrates that God’s intent was mercy and human flourishing, not legalistic restriction, healing on the Sabbath to show that compassion fulfills the law (Matthew 12:1-14; Mark 2:27). Even the commandments forbidding covetousness and idolatry (Exodus 20:3-7, 17) find their spiritual fulfillment in teaching hearts rightly oriented toward God, loving Him supremely, and loving neighbors as oneself (Matthew 22:37-40).


Through these teachings, Jesus reveals that the Law was always meant to shape the heart, not just the behavior. The outward observance of rules is insufficient without inner transformation; the Law points to a righteousness that springs from faith, love, and mercy (Micah 6:8; Matthew 5:20). By focusing on the spirit of the Law, He invites His followers into a deeper, life-giving obedience that cannot be measured by mere compliance, but by a heart aligned with God’s character.

Why Jesus said

Mat 5: 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

And this has not been fulfilled therefor not a jot or tittle shall pass from the Law


Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

The Law, with all its demands and shadows, was ultimately fulfilled in Christ. When Jesus cried out on the cross, “It is finished” (John 19:30), He declared that the purpose of the Law had been accomplished—not abolished, but completed in Him. The Law, including its sacrificial system and its commands, pointed forward to a perfect obedience and atoning work that no human could fully achieve (Galatians 3:10-13; Hebrews 10:1-10). Through His sinless life, Christ perfectly kept the Law on our behalf (Romans 5:18-19), and through His death, He satisfied its penalty for sin, bearing the curse that hung over those who failed to keep it (Deuteronomy 27:26; Galatians 3:13).

By fulfilling the Law, Jesus opened a way for believers to experience righteousness not through their own works, but through faith in Him (Romans 8:3-4; Matthew 5:17). The ceremonial, moral, and civil aspects of the Law—all designed to point toward God’s holiness and mercy—find their ultimate expression in Christ’s life, death, and resurrection (Hebrews 9:11-15). In this sense, the Law’s intent is fully realized in Him: God’s standards are honored, justice is satisfied, and mercy flows to all who believe (Romans 10:4; 2 Corinthians 5:21). The cry “It is finished” signals that the Law’s purpose—to reveal sin, guide hearts, and point to redemption—has reached its fulfillment in Jesus, inviting all who trust in Him to enter into God’s rest and righteousness (Hebrews 4:1-10).

 

[Mercy Shown]

It would include everything God said Mat4:4 including the 4th commandment Exo20:8-11

Deuteronomy 8:3 says, “He humbled you, causing you to hunger and then feeding you with manna, which neither you nor your ancestors had known, to teach you that man does not live on bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of the LORD.” This verse emphasizes God’s purpose in humbling His people: to teach dependence on Him rather than on material provision.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Do you have a secret wish that you could break the law but are afraid to do so?

I am just believing what Jesus said plainly without editing Him


Mat5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Romans 3:8-4 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.

Keeping reading a bit further I am pretty sure this was addressed previously it tells us what those do who are not walking in the Spirit

Rom 8:7 Because the [c]carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Romans 10:4 – “For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.”
The Greek word telos can mean “end” (completion, fulfillment). Christ completes the Law so that righteousness comes through faith, not works.

Its not what the word end means

τέλος télos, tel'-os; from a primary τέλλω téllō (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly, the point aimed at as a limit, i.e. (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination (literally, figuratively or indefinitely), result (immediate, ultimate or prophetic), purpose); specially, an impost or levy (as paid):—+ continual, custom, end(-ing), finally, uttermost. Compare G5411.

Christ is the goal of the law, not the end as he clearly stated otherwise Mat7:23 John 14:15

Its why we need to be careful isolating verses and not reconciling with Jesus.

In His Sermon on the Mount, Jesus consistently moved from the letter of the Law to its deeper spiritual intent, revealing that outward obedience alone cannot fulfill God’s purposes. He declares in Matthew 5:17 that He has not come to abolish the Law but to fulfill it, emphasizing that its ultimate goal is righteousness from the heart. For instance, He goes beyond “You shall not murder” (Exodus 20:13) to say that even anger or contempt toward another person makes one liable to judgment (Matthew 5:21-22). In the same way, He intensifies “You shall not commit adultery” (Exodus 20:14) by showing that lustful thoughts are equally sinful (Matthew 5:27-28).

Jesus is showing that the heart is the issue why the commandments are being broken. If the inward side is fixed, it would show in our actions and the commandments would be kept just the way God said.

Why Jesus came to magnify the law, means make greater which is what He did, not end as what most sadly teach.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Deuteronomy 8:3 says, “He humbled you, causing you to hunger and then feeding you with manna, which neither you nor your ancestors had known, to teach you that man does not live on bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of the LORD.” This verse emphasizes God’s purpose in humbling His people: to teach dependence on Him rather than on material provision.

If you wish not to live by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God, that's fine, no one is forcing anyone, its about choices.

 

[Mercy Shown]

If you wish not to live by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God, that's fine, no one is forcing anyone, its about choices.

“I hear what you’re saying, but I would gently suggest that not observing a particular practice doesn’t automatically mean someone is rejecting God’s Word. Scripture reminds us that God looks at the heart, not just outward actions (1 Sam 16:7), and that we are justified by faith, not by works of the law (Gal 2:16; Eph 2:8-9). Jesus also warns us not to judge others harshly or impose our standards as if they determine someone’s standing with God (Matthew 7:1-5). True obedience flows from trusting Christ and walking in the Spirit (Gal 5:16-18), not from following a checklist of rules.”

 

[Mercy Shown]

I am just believing what Jesus said plainly without editing Him


Mat5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

“I see the point you’re making with Matthew 5:19, and it’s important to take it seriously. At the same time, we must remember that Jesus said he came not to abolish the law, but to fulfill it (Matt 5:17). The law finds its completion in Him, and through faith, it is fulfilled in us as well. Because Christ has already paid the debt the law demanded, God does not require a double payment (Romans 8:3-4; Galatians 3:24). Our response, then, is one of gratitude and faith, not of trying to earn what has already been accomplished in Him.”

Keeping reading a bit further I am pretty sure this was addressed previously it tells us what those do who are not walking in the Spirit

Rom 8:7 Because the [c]carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.



Its not what the word end means

τέλος télos, tel'-os; from a primary τέλλω téllō (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly, the point aimed at as a limit, i.e. (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination (literally, figuratively or indefinitely), result (immediate, ultimate or prophetic), purpose); specially, an impost or levy (as paid):—+ continual, custom, end(-ing), finally, uttermost. Compare G5411.

Christ is the goal of the law, not the end as he clearly stated otherwise Mat7:23 John 14:15

Its why we need to be careful isolating verses and not reconciling with Jesus.

I see what you’re saying, and it’s true that “télos” (end) can mean “goal” or “purpose” in Greek. However, in Romans 10:4, Paul explicitly says, “Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes” (Rom 10:4, NASB). The context makes clear that this “end” is about completion, fulfillment, and termination of the law’s role as a system of righteousness, not the cessation of the law’s moral truths.

The word “goal” does not contradict this. In fact, Christ being the goal and the end is compatible: He is the ultimate aim of the law, and at the same time, His life, death, and resurrection bring the law to its full and final purpose. The law’s requirement for justification before God—something humans could never perfectly achieve—has been fully satisfied in Him (Galatians 3:24-25). Therefore, believers are no longer under the law as a system that demands payment; Christ’s righteousness covers us (Romans 8:3-4).

Also, isolating texts like Matthew 7:23 or John 14:15 does not change the fact that obedience flows from faith in Christ, not from attempting to earn righteousness through the law. Christ fulfills the law for us, and through Him, it is fulfilled in us by the Spirit (Galatians 5:16-18). In other words, we do not reject the law’s moral guidance, but we are freed from its condemnation.

Jesus is showing that the heart is the issue why the commandments are being broken. If the inward side is fixed, it would show in our actions and the commandments would be kept just the way God said.

Why Jesus came to magnify the law, means make greater which is what He did, not end as what most sadly teach.

“I understand your point that Jesus was concerned with the heart, and I agree completely that true obedience flows from inward transformation (Matthew 5:21-48; 1 Samuel 16:7). However, I would gently clarify a few things:


First, when Paul says Christ is the end of the law for righteousness (Romans 10:4), it does not mean the law’s moral guidance is abolished or that obedience is irrelevant. It means that the law’s role as a system for earning righteousness has been completed in Christ. We are no longer trying to ‘pay a debt’ the law requires; that has been fully satisfied by Him (Galatians 3:24-25; Romans 8:3-4).


Second, it’s important not to assume that others are breaking God’s commandments based on their worship practices, such as observing Sunday instead of Saturday. Scripture never makes salvation contingent on a specific day of worship but on faith and obedience to God in the heart (Colossians 2:16-17; Romans 14:5-6).


Finally, while it’s wonderful to honor God faithfully, we must be careful about implying that our personal way of observing the Sabbath is the definitive way God requires. Jesus warned against judging others harshly for outward observance while neglecting mercy, justice, and faithfulness (Matthew 23:23-24). True obedience is heart-driven, empowered by the Spirit (Galatians 5:16-18), not defined by following a checklist of commandments.”

 

[Hentenza]

If you keep the Sabbath, it forces you to turn away from the cares of the world, like working to pay bills, and it leads you to study of God’s word and praising Him for all the blessings. Paramount is the sacrifice of Christ.

I can do the same thing if I worship on Sunday.

 

[guevaraj]

All I can say is that this is a misreading of the text. I could show you again, but you would not believe it.

Brother, I agree with you that I wouldn't believe it because your interpretation is figurative, referring to "rest" as Jesus, and mine is literal, referring to "rest" as the Sabbath. To show you the difference, I asked ChatGPT: "When both are possible, which is correct: a literal or figurative interpretation?"

ChatGPT said:​

Good question — and the answer depends on context and intent.
Here’s how to think about it:

• If a literal interpretation makes sense and fits the context, that’s usually the correct one.
  • Example: “He ran to the store.” → literally means he physically ran.
• If a literal reading seems absurd, impossible, or out of place, a figurative interpretationis probably intended.
  • Example: “He ran out of time.” → not literal; you can’t physically run out of time.

Writers, speakers, and interpreters often follow this principle:

“Take words literally unless there is a compelling reason not to.”

So, literal first, figurative if necessary — unless the context (like poetry, metaphorical writing, or symbolic speech) clearly signals otherwise.
Would you like me to explain how this applies in a specific field — for example, literature, law, or theology?

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Hentenza]

Brother, I agree with you that I wouldn't believe it because your interpretation is figurative, referring to "rest" as Jesus, and mine is literal, referring to "rest" as the Sabbath. To show you the difference, I asked ChatGPT: "When both are possible, which is correct: a literal or figurative interpretation?"

ChatGPT said:​

Good question — and the answer depends on context and intent.
Here’s how to think about it:

• If a literal interpretation makes sense and fits the context, that’s usually the correct one.
  • Example: “He ran to the store.” → literally means he physically ran.
• If a literal reading seems absurd, impossible, or out of place, a figurative interpretationis probably intended.
  • Example: “He ran out of time.” → not literal; you can’t physically run out of time.

Writers, speakers, and interpreters often follow this principle:

So, literal first, figurative if necessary — unless the context (like poetry, metaphorical writing, or symbolic speech) clearly signals otherwise.
Would you like me to explain how this applies in a specific field — for example, literature, law, or theology?

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

So then it should be simple for you to post a post crucifixion NT verse that requires the Christian to keep the 4th commandment.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

“I hear what you’re saying, but I would gently suggest that not observing a particular practice doesn’t automatically mean someone is rejecting God’s Word. Scripture reminds us that God looks at the heart, not just outward actions (1 Sam 16:7), and that we are justified by faith, not by works of the law (Gal 2:16; Eph 2:8-9). Jesus also warns us not to judge others harshly or impose our standards as if they determine someone’s standing with God (Matthew 7:1-5). True obedience flows from trusting Christ and walking in the Spirit (Gal 5:16-18), not from following a checklist of rules.”

I think the disconnect is what is flowing from Christ.

You seem to think from what I can tell, that Christ is not enabling us to keep His commandments, but what we feel is right or wrong.

When you say observe a particular practice, I am assuming you mean the Sabbath since that's what this thread is about, so from what I can tell you are teaching that if we are in Christ we no longer have to keep the commandments of God the way God said including this particular practice, but that's not what Jesus ever said, He taught plainly the opposite. John14:15 John15:10 Mat`5:3-14 Mark 7:7-13 Mat5:19-30 Mat 19:17-19 Mat 12:12 Mark2:27 Mat4:4

If we are in Christ abiding in Him this is what is flowing out of us. Love to God that we want to obey Him and abide in His love because we love Him and in doing so we are keeping His commandments.

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

So if we are loving Christ and abiding in Him, one is also keeping His commandments so there would be no disconnect with Christ our Savior and His Laws He asks us to keep if we love Him.

If you knew someone that was committing adultery, would you encourage them to continue in that path even though we are told sin separates us from Christ Isa 59:2 unless we have a change in heart and a change in direction, means putting away that sin. The thing is I do not think God separated the 4th commandment from the other 9 commandments, Deut 4:13 Exo 34:28 James2:11 man did this, not God. So encouraging someone that they do not have to keep a particular practice that is contrary to the law of God is no different than someone committing adultery or breaking any of God's commandments.

Jesus fulfilling the law to mean we do not have to keep God's commandments as clearly Jesus stated the opposite Mat5:19 is not something that can be reconciled in our Bibles. Jesus fulfilled the law in what He was prophesized to do, make the law greater not lessor. Isa42:21 He fulfilled it showing how we keep God's laws, like fulfilling a wedding covenant. He never fulfilled is so we can profane them. Its kept for God's faithful until the end Rev22:14

I am not sure if I am interested in pursuing this conversation further because I think we both have made up on minds on this topic and at this point, we will just need to wait until Jesus comes back to sort it all out. He will soon enough. Rev22:11

 

[Hentenza]

(staff edit)
Brother, Heb. 4 relates to entering into Jesus rest as Lord not about the sabbath rest.

In order to understand Heb. 4 you have to start with the latter part of Heb. 3 because Heb. 4 begins with “therefore” which is a conclusion arrived at from what was written before.

“And with whom was He angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose dead bodies fell in the wilderness? And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient? And so we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭3‬:‭17‬-‭19‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Hebrews 3:18-19 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient? And so we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible A

And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient? And so we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.

bible.com

The end of chapter 3 explains how the sin of Israel led to the bodies in the wilderness and why that did not enter His rest which was unbelief. We know that the law is not of faith (Gal. 3:12).

“Therefore, we must fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4‬:‭1‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Hebrews 4:1 Therefore, we must fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

Therefore, we must fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it.

bible.com

The beginning of chapter 4 is an attention getter because it includes the writer’s present audience of believers.

“For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also did; but the word they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united with those who listened with faith.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4‬:‭2‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Hebrews 4:2 For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also did; but the word they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united with those who listened with faith. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Downl

For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also did; but the word they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united with those who listened with faith.

bible.com

The Jews did not heed the gospel of good news and remain in disobedience and their sins so they belong in the group described at the end of chapter 3. Those who heard and accepted the gospel of good news are of faith and NOT united to those that are not of faith.

“For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said, “As I swore in My anger, They certainly shall not enter My rest,” although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4‬:‭3‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Hebrews 4:3 For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said, “AS I SWORE IN MY ANGER, THEY CERTAINLY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST,” although His works were finished from the foundation of the world. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB

For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said, “AS I SWORE IN MY ANGER, THEY CERTAINLY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST,” although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.

bible.com

Only those of faith enter Jesus rest. This understanding governs the rest of chapter 4. And to top it off the new promises are for a new covenant. So nothing here supports the keeping of the sabbath as it was in the old covenant and it is not part of the new covenant.

Now, my request still stands. Please post a post crucifixion verse that requires the Christian to keep the 4th commandment.

 

[Mercy Shown]

I think the disconnect is what is flowing from Christ.

You seem to think from what I can tell, that Christ is not enabling us to keep His commandments, but what we feel is right or wrong.

“I think many sincere believers desire to keep the Ten Commandments out of love for God, and that’s commendable. Yet sometimes, it’s easy to rely on our own sense of what ‘keeping them’ looks like, rather than seeing how the gospel reshapes our understanding of the law. Scripture reminds us that nothing less than perfect obedience would meet the law’s standard (James 2:10), which is why we all need Christ’s righteousness, not our own (Romans 3:20-22).


I don’t say this to criticize, but to point out that we can each develop our own version of Sabbath-keeping that feels right to us, even when it may not align perfectly with what Scripture teaches about finding our rest and fulfillment in Christ (Colossians 2:16-17; Matthew 11:28). My hope is simply that we all keep looking to Jesus—the only One who ever truly kept the law perfectly—and allow His Spirit to fulfill it in us.”

When you say observe a particular practice, I am assuming you mean the Sabbath since that's what this thread is about, so from what I can tell you are teaching that if we are in Christ we no longer have to keep the commandments of God the way God said including this particular practice, but that's not what Jesus ever said, He taught plainly the opposite. John14:15 John15:10 Mat`5:3-14 Mark 7:7-13 Mat5:19-30 Mat 19:17-19 Mat 12:12 Mark2:27 Mat4:4

“I appreciate your sincerity in wanting to honor God’s Sabbath, but I don’t believe the way you observe it fully reflects how God has revealed it in His Word. Also, it’s important to remember that in the passages you’ve mentioned, the law had not yet been fulfilled—Christ’s work was still in progress. The fulfillment came when He declared on the cross, ‘It is finished’ (John 19:30). That moment marked the completion of what the law pointed toward and what only He could accomplish. I share this not to argue, but to remind us both that our rest and righteousness are found in His finished work, not in our ability to keep the law perfectly.”

If we are in Christ abiding in Him this is what is flowing out of us. Love to God that we want to obey Him and abide in His love because we love Him.

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

So if we are loving Christ and abiding in Him, one is also keeping His commandments so there would be no disconnect with Christ our Savior His Laws He asks us to keep if we love Him.

“I appreciate what you’re saying about love leading to obedience — that’s a beautiful truth. I would just add, that when Jesus spoke of ‘My commandments’ in John 15:10, He wasn’t referring specifically to the Ten Commandments given through Moses, but to His own teachings — the words He gave His disciples while He was with them (John 14:21, 23-24).


His commandments center on faith in Him and love toward others (John 13:34; 1 John 3:23). Today, that same obedience continues as we walk in the Spirit, listening to His leading and allowing His life to be expressed through us (Romans 8:4; Galatians 5:16-18). The Christian life isn’t about going back under the letter of the law, but about living out the Spirit of Christ’s teachings day by day.”

If you knew someone that was committing adultery, would you encourage them to continue in that path even though we are told sin separates us from Christ Isa 59:2 unless we have a change in heart and a change in direction, means putting away that sin. The thing is I do not think God separated the 4th commandment from the other 9 commandments, Deyt 4:13 Exo 34:28 James2:11 man did this, not God. So encouraging someone that they do not have to keep a particular practice that is contrary to the law of God is no different than someone committing adultery or breaking any of God's commandments.

“I completely agree that sin separates us from God and that repentance means turning away from what is wrong and walking in newness of life (Isaiah 59:2; Romans 6:1-4). But I think we need to be careful not to equate every difference in understanding of the law with open rebellion against God.


The moral principles behind the Ten Commandments are eternal — love for God and love for others — but the covenantal form of the law, including the Sabbath as given to Israel, pointed forward to something greater. Scripture says that Christ fulfilled the law (Matthew 5:17) and that in Him, believers enter God’s true rest (Hebrews 4:9-10). The New Testament never presents Sabbath observance as a test of loyalty to God, but rather invites us to rest in Christ’s finished work (Colossians 2:16-17). This is the fullfillment of the 4th commanment by Christ.


So encouraging someone to rest in Christ rather than to follow a particular day of observance isn’t like condoning adultery or lawlessness — it’s pointing them toward the One who fulfilled the law perfectly and empowers us to live righteously through the Spirit (Romans 8:3-4; Galatians 5:18).”

Jesus fulfilling the law to mean we do not have to keep God's commandments as clearly Jesus stated the opposite Mat5:19 is not something that can be reconciled in our Bibles. Jesus fulfilled the law in what He was prophesized to do, make the law greater not lessor. Isa42:21 He fulfilled it showing how we keep God's laws, like fulfilling a wedding covenant. He never fulfilled is so we can profane them. Its kept for God's faithful until the end Rev22:14

“I think there’s been some misunderstanding, and I want to be clear that no one here is advocating disobedience to God’s law. Scripture teaches that God’s moral standards still reflect His character, and those who love Him will naturally desire to obey (John 14:15).

The difference is in how that obedience is lived out. Jesus didn’t fulfill the law so that we could break it, but so that its righteous requirement could be fulfilled in us through the Spirit (Romans 8:3–4). The law was powerless to make us righteous, but Christ accomplished what it could not.

When we say the law was fulfilled, we’re not saying it was abolished or made meaningless — we’re saying that Christ completed its purpose, revealing its true intent in love and faith (Galatians 5:14). The heart of obedience now flows from being united with Him, not from striving to earn righteousness on our own.

So we’re not rejecting God’s commands — we’re embracing them in the way Christ Himself enables: through His Spirit, by faith, from the heart.”

I am not sure if I am interested in pursuing this conversation further because I think we both have made up on minds on this topic and at this point, we will just need to wait until Jesus comes back to sort it all out. He will soon enough. Rev22:11

Ut vis

 

[Mercy Shown]

Brother, I agree with you that I wouldn't believe it because your interpretation is figurative, referring to "rest" as Jesus, and mine is literal, referring to "rest" as the Sabbath. To show you the difference, I asked ChatGPT: "When both are possible, which is correct: a literal or figurative interpretation?"

ChatGPT said:​

Good question — and the answer depends on context and intent.
Here’s how to think about it:

• If a literal interpretation makes sense and fits the context, that’s usually the correct one.
  • Example: “He ran to the store.” → literally means he physically ran.
• If a literal reading seems absurd, impossible, or out of place, a figurative interpretationis probably intended.
  • Example: “He ran out of time.” → not literal; you can’t physically run out of time.

Writers, speakers, and interpreters often follow this principle:

So, literal first, figurative if necessary — unless the context (like poetry, metaphorical writing, or symbolic speech) clearly signals otherwise.
Would you like me to explain how this applies in a specific field — for example, literature, law, or theology?

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Nice, but you are still misreading the text. Ask Chat GPT about confirmation bias.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

“I think many sincere believers desire to keep the Ten Commandments out of love for God, and that’s commendable. Yet sometimes, it’s easy to rely on our own sense of what ‘keeping them’ looks like, rather than seeing how the gospel reshapes our understanding of the law.

Thankfully, God is the one to determine this, not anyone else. The way you are phasing it as if you are looking down at others who want to obey God. God cannot be mocked. Gal6:7 lets not forget Whose commandments and Testimony this is Exo31:18 the God of the Universe.

Scripture reminds us that nothing less than perfect obedience would meet the law’s standard (James 2:10), which is why we all need Christ’s righteousness, not our own (Romans 3:20-22).

This is our fundament difference, you keep indicating that the righteousness of Christ is not going to keep the commandments the way He told us to or how Jesus lived in our sinful world, not just for His sacrifice but also as our example to follow to show us how one lives righteously. 1 John2:6 1 Peter 2:21-22 Heb 4:15. Basically this teaching is a double standard and a dichotomy between Christ and His Laws. Christ kept the same laws we are to keep John15:10 1John2:6 the same way He said to Mat 5:19-30. Going outside and making up our own rules and our own righteousness instead of His Psa119:172 Isa56:1-2 which is everlasting Psa119:142 I do not believe is wise.

I don’t say this to criticize, but to point out that we can each develop our own version of Sabbath-keeping that feels right to us, even when it may not align perfectly with what Scripture teaches about finding our rest and fulfillment in Christ

We do not need to do what feels right because we have Scripture which plainly tells us how to keep the Sabbath Exo 20:8-11 Isa 58:13 Lev23:3 the Scriptures are filled with Sabbath teachings etc. no deed to deviate from it, with plenty of examples from Jesus and His apostles.

(Colossians 2:16-17;

Read the OP as this is not about the weekly Sabbath, but the sabbaths connected to annual feast days and sin offerings, that came after the fall which was fulfilled in Christ Heb10:1-10 1 Cor5:7. The weekly Sabbath started at Creation, part of God's perfect plan and points to God as our Creator Exo20:11 and Sanctifier Eze20:12 and will never be a shadow of anything. We are told to get back to worship this God Rev 14:7