No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

[Spiritual Jew]

That word know is ginōskō :

1. to learn to know, come to know, get a knowledge of perceive, feel
   1. to become known
2. to know, understand, perceive, have knowledge of
   1. to understand

The natural man has no ability spiritually to all of the above of Spiritual things proceeding from the Spirit of God. And the Gospel proceeds from the Spirit of God.

See my post #1060. You, too, are badly misinterpreting 1 Corinthians 2:14 by taking it out of context.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

I am not sure what you think that scripture says that you are asking me what I make of it. The scripture says that you can’t please God without faith and that He rewards those who diligently seek Him.

You showed scripture from Romans 3 saying that no one seeks God and acted as if no one ever seeks God, yet Hebrews 11:6 says that God rewards those who diligently seek Him. So, I wanted to know how you reconcile the two verses. That should have been obvious.

The answer is that God GIVES us faith as a free gift (per Ephesians 2),

Nope. That is not what Ephesians 2:8-9 says. The gift God gives us is salvation which is by His grace through our faith in Christ. The gift of God being salvation lines up with Romans 6:23 saying that the gift of God is eternal life. Not faith. Faith/believing is something that we are responsible to do. When the jailer asked Paul and Silas what he had to do to be saved they didn't say "Nothing" and that God is the One who does it all. They said he had to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ in order to be saved. God does not do that for us.

and therefore we have the ability to seek Him and learn about Him through the presence of the Holy Spirit. He then rewards us with spiritual gifts to use for his glory. This scripture in no way suggests that somehow we manufacture faith on our own and seek Him out.

Why does our faith please Him and why does He reward people for seeking Him if it's not our faith and seeking Him isn't in our own volition? That makes no sense. If He is the one who gives us faith and He is the one who causes us to seek Him, shouldn't He be pleased with Himself and reward Himself instead?

Why was Jesus amazed at the great faith of the Roman centurion who asked Him to heal his servant if faith is given to people by God?

Matthew 8:5 And when Jesus was entered into Capernaum, there came unto him a centurion, beseeching him, 6 And saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously tormented. 7 And Jesus saith unto him, I will come and heal him. 8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed. 9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it. 10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

Jesus is God. Was He amazed at the faith that He supposedly (according to your doctrine) gave the centurion? That certainly would not make any sense. The only way it would make sense for Jesus to have been amazed at the great faith of the centurion is if the centurion willingly chose to put his faith in Him.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Do you believe that all the people who go to church with you (assuming you go to church, of course) are brothers and sisters in Christ? That every single one of them have a personal relationship with Christ?

No, but that is irrelevant. The author of Hebrews (probably Paul) was addressing people who he knew were true believers. That's why he called them "holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling" (Hebrews 3:1). You are trying to do anything you can to deny what is clearly taught in Hebrews 3:12-14, which is that true believers are warned not to turn away from God.

Hebrews 3:12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but [b]exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,

How can someone who isn't a true believer depart from God if they have no relationship with God in the first place? Who else would be told to "exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin" except for true believers? That's not something you would say to someone who isn't a true believer. That is a warning to not become "hardened through the deceitfulness of sin", so it's obviously not a warning given to people who are already hardened. Also, verse 14 is not something that would be said to anyone but true believers because it is addressed to those who have steadfast "confidence" in Christ and talks about the need to hold (keep) it "to the end".

 

[Spiritual Jew]

How can somebody "dead in trespasses and sins" turn from sin and turn to Christ? That is like suggesting that Lazarus had to come out of his tomb to Jesus in order to be brought back to life.

Where does scripture ever describe being dead in sins as being similar to being physically dead? Nowhere that I am aware of. So, why are you doing that?

Do you know that death is separation? When someone physically dies, their soul and spirit separates from their body. When someone is dead in sins it means that they are separated from a personal relationship with God.

While sinners are described as "dead in trespasses and sins", they are also described as being sick, like Jesus did here...

Mark 2:15 Now it happened, as He was dining in Levi’s house, that many tax collectors and sinners also sat together with Jesus and His disciples; for there were many, and they followed Him. 16 And when the scribes and Pharisees saw Him eating with the tax collectors and sinners, they said to His disciples, “How is it that He eats and drinks with tax collectors and sinners?” 17 When Jesus heard it, He said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”

As a Calvinist, you believe in total depravity and total inability when it comes to the unsaved. The ones who Jesus called "sinners", in other words. Yet, Jesus called these supposedly totally depraved and totally unable sinners to repentance. Who are sinners? All people, right (Romans 3:23)? So, Jesus calls all people to repentance. Yet, you try to say that some people are totally depraved and unable to repent. Jesus clearly did not believe or teach that. He fully expected the sinners He dined with at Levi's house to repent and He called them to repent along with all other sinners. That's why He spent time with them, to talk to them about their need to repent. But, God doesn't force/cause/make anyone repent. He makes people responsible to choose to repent or not. And sick people are fully capable of acknowledging that they can't heal themselves and need the physician to heal them without needing some kind of supernatural event to occur that causes them to acknowledge their need for healing while asking the physician to heal them.

Calvinists rightly have a concern about anyone teaching that salvation can be earned by works of righteousness. But, repentance and faith are not the kind of works that Paul talked about when he said that salvation is not by works (Ephesians 2:8-9). He contrasted faith with works. He said we're saved by grace and that we ARE saved through faith, but NOT by works so that no one can boast. So, to try to claim that we are trying to earn our salvation by works if we claim that faith is by our own free will choice does not line up with what scripture teaches. Why would anyone boast after repenting and humbling themselves while admitting that they are a lost sinner who can't save themselves by atoning for their own sins?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Christ as the exalted Saviour and Prince, gives repentance to Israel, an elect people and that causes them to repent, its something Christ accomplished for them He died for and saves Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Israel here is His church. So Salvation repentance and forgivenss of sins is limited as in limited atonement.

While I do believe that there is a spiritual Israel which is the church (Romans 9:6-8, Galatians 6:15-16), Acts 5:31 is not referring to spiritual Israel. It is referring to national Israel. Peter and the other apostles were talking to the leaders of the nation of Israel in that verse and telling them that God exalted Jesus to His right hand to be the Prince and Savior. So, the context of what was being talked about was in relation to the nation of Israel. They were talking about the people of Israel being given the opportunity to repent and have their sins forgiven by way of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Nowhere in the surrounding verses can the context be found that they were referring to spiritual Israel in Acts 5:31 rather than the nation of Israel.

Many national Israelites rejected that opportunity to repent unto the forgiveness of sins. Jesus indicated that was because they were not willing to repent and not because He was not willing for them to repent.

Matthew 23:37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! 38 See! Your house is left to you desolate;

How do you reconcile passages like this with your doctrine? In your doctrine, it is Jesus who was not willing to have a relationship with the unbelieving Jews He was talking to in Matthew 23, but He said they were not willing to have a relationship with Him even though He was willing to have a relationship with them.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Man by nature is spiritually dead as Lazarus was physically dead, the point is the dead needs resurrection and its out of mans ability. The Illustration showed the Glory of God in giving life to the dead, that's why Jesus waited for him to die in his sickness Jn 11:38-44

39 Jesus said, Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead four days.

40 Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?

41 Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me.

42 And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.

43 And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.

44 And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.

It took a miracle for him to be made physically alive, for the Glory of God, and likewise for those who are spiritually dead. Now I say this, as Lazarus was obviously one of Gods elect, so likewise those who are raised from spiritual death.

Yeah, just keep ignoring the fact that Jesus said that sinners are sick, not dead. Nowhere does scripture relate being dead in sins with total inability. That comes from your imagination. Being dead in sins means to be separated from God. That is what death means. Separation. When someone physically dies, their soul and spirit separates from their body.

Mark 2:16 And when the scribes and Pharisees saw Him eating with the tax collectors and sinners, they said to His disciples, “How is it that He eats and drinks with tax collectors and sinners?” 17 When Jesus heard it, He said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”

Jesus calls sinners, who He said "are sick" to repentance. Who are sinners? All people (Romans 3:23). So, Jesus calls all people to repentance. You contrast that by claiming that He gives repentance only to certain people while thinking that He is satisfied with leaving everyone else in their lost state and destined for eternal torment with no opportunity to repent and be saved.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Arminianism doesn’t say you have to make yourself worthy to be saved. It suggests you can participate with God in being saved, but they fail to understand that when YOU make something a requirement for salvation YOU are creating a works-based salvation, so Arminianism is considered semi-pelagian in nature.

This is absolutely false. Show me where scripture teaches what you're saying. You can't do it.

The jailer asked Paul and Silas what he had to do to be saved (Acts 16:30-31) and they didn't answer by saying "Nothing". Nowhere does scripture teach that faith is one of the kind of works that Paul was talking about when he said that faith is not by works in Ephesians 2:8-9. He contrasted faith with works in that passage, so believing that we must use free will to choose to have faith and trust in Christ in order to be saved is NOT a works-based salvation.

The glory of the gospel is that while you were a sinner and without correct theology, since you had NO theology, Christ saved you, so it doesn’t matter what you believe. God saved you all on His own anyway. HE gets the glory, not you.

I, personally, believe that Arminianism is close to being heretical, but I know that this website doesn’t hold that position, so you are free to have that belief. The reason I hold my belief is from coming from a tradition where salvation required my participation, and the grief I bore when I felt I was not holding up my part of the bargain and the freedom I felt when I finally had the strength to cast aside that false illusion created by the devil to keep us in chains.

You are rightly concerned about anyone believing that they can take credit and boast of playing a part in saving themselves, but my view is that everyone must choose to humble themselves and admit that they can't save themselves and need Jesus to save them instead. Where is boasting in that? Nowhere. I don't know for sure if what I'm describing lines up with Arminianism or not, but you certainly don't have to be a Calvinist in order to have a doctrine that removes the possibility of boasting about one's own salvation.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

This sounds crazy. The Holy Spirit saves us Titus3:5-6


5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

What he said isn't crazy at all. Many people resist the Holy Spirit and that lines up with what he said.

Acts 7:51 “You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you.

What else were these unbelieving Jews that Stephen rebuked resisting except for the Holy Spirit showing them their need to repent and believe the gospel?

 

[A New Dawn]

You showed scripture from Romans 3 saying that no one seeks God and acted as if no one ever seeks God, yet Hebrews 11:6 says that God rewards those who diligently seek Him. So, I wanted to know how you reconcile the two verses. That should have been obvious.


Nope. That is not what Ephesians 2:8-9 says. The gift God gives us is salvation which is by His grace through our faith in Christ. The gift of God being salvation lines up with Romans 6:23 saying that the gift of God is eternal life. Not faith. Faith/believing is something that we are responsible to do. When the jailer asked Paul and Silas what he had to do to be saved they didn't say "Nothing" and that God is the One who does it all. They said he had to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ in order to be saved. God does not do that for us.


Why does our faith please Him and why does He reward people for seeking Him if it's not our faith and seeking Him isn't in our own volition? That makes no sense. If He is the one who gives us faith and He is the one who causes us to seek Him, shouldn't He be pleased with Himself and reward Himself instead?

Why was Jesus amazed at the great faith of the Roman centurion who asked Him to heal his servant if faith is given to people by God?

Matthew 8:5 And when Jesus was entered into Capernaum, there came unto him a centurion, beseeching him, 6 And saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously tormented. 7 And Jesus saith unto him, I will come and heal him. 8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed. 9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it. 10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

Jesus is God. Was He amazed at the faith that He supposedly (according to your doctrine) gave the centurion? That certainly would not make any sense. The only way it would make sense for Jesus to have been amazed at the great faith of the centurion is if the centurion willingly chose to put his faith in Him.

The gift he gives us in Ephesians 2 is salvation through faith. It is ALL the same gift. He gifts you saving faith through which he saves you (that’s why it’s called saving faith). Prior to that act of God, we cannot and do not seek God. AFTER that act of God, we diligently seek him for the rest of our lives.

 

[A New Dawn]

This is absolutely false. Show me where scripture teaches what you're saying. You can't do it.

The jailer asked Paul and Silas what he had to do to be saved (Acts 16:30-31) and they didn't answer by saying "Nothing". Nowhere does scripture teach that faith is one of the kind of works that Paul was talking about when he said that faith is not by works in Ephesians 2:8-9. He contrasted faith with works in that passage, so believing that we must use free will to choose to have faith and trust in Christ in order to be saved is NOT a works-based salvation.


You are rightly concerned about anyone believing that they can take credit and boast of playing a part in saving themselves, but my view is that everyone must choose to humble themselves and admit that they can't save themselves and need Jesus to save them instead. Where is boasting in that? Nowhere. I don't know for sure if what I'm describing lines up with Arminianism or not, but you certainly don't have to be a Calvinist in order to have a doctrine that removes the possibility of boasting about one's own salvation.

How does a dead person humble himself? How does someone who has not been given the gift of the Holy Spirit accomplish spiritual acts? They don’t, and they can’t. Because the gift of the Holy Spirit comes with regeneration.

 

[A New Dawn]

No, but that is irrelevant. The author of Hebrews (probably Paul) was addressing people who he knew were true believers. That's why he called them "holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling" (Hebrews 3:1). You are trying to do anything you can to deny what is clearly taught in Hebrews 3:12-14, which is that true believers are warned not to turn away from God.

Hebrews 3:12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but [b]exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,

How can someone who isn't a true believer depart from God if they have no relationship with God in the first place? Who else would be told to "exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin" except for true believers? That's not something you would say to someone who isn't a true believer. That is a warning to not become "hardened through the deceitfulness of sin", so it's obviously not a warning given to people who are already hardened. Also, verse 14 is not something that would be said to anyone but true believers because it is addressed to those who have steadfast "confidence" in Christ and talks about the need to hold (keep) it "to the end".

How would Paul know who is a true believer and who isn’t? Do you know things like that?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

The gift he gives us in Ephesians 2 is salvation through faith. It is ALL the same gift.

I completely disagree. If that was the case then why was Jesus amazed at the great faith of the Roman centurion who asked Him to heal his servant?

Matthew 8:5 When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, asking for help. 6 “Lord,” he said, “my servant lies at home paralyzed, suffering terribly.” 7 Jesus said to him, “Shall I come and heal him?” 8 The centurion replied, “Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9 For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and that one, ‘Come,’ and he comes. I say to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.” 10 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith.

Jesus, being God, would certainly not be amazed by anyone's faith if it was the gift of God. Yet, He was amazed by the centurion's faith. How do you explain that with your understanding of how faith comes about?

He gifts you saving faith through which he saves you (that’s why it’s called saving faith).

No, it's called saving faith because God requires people to have faith in order to be saved.

Acts 16:30 He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”

Without knowing if the jailer was elect/chosen or not, Paul and Silas told him that what he had to do to be saved was "Believe in the Lord Jesus". If faith was given to people then they would have been lying to him because, in that case, they should have said there is nothing he can do to be saved.

Prior to that act of God, we cannot and do not seek God. AFTER that act of God, we diligently seek him for the rest of our lives.

You are just making things up. Where does scripture teach this? Why does Jesus call sinners to repentance if they supposedly cannot seek God? Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God (Romans 10:17). Once someone hears the word of God then they have the choice of pursuing it further and seeking God or not. Nowhere does it say that God has to give someone saving faith before they will seek God. If that was the case, then it makes no sense that He would reward anyone for seeking Him (Hebrews 11:6).

 

[Spiritual Jew]

How does a dead person humble himself? How does someone who has not been given the gift of the Holy Spirit accomplish spiritual acts? They don’t, and they can’t. Because the gift of the Holy Spirit comes with regeneration.

I guess you didn't read my post #1066 addressed to Brightfame52. I'll just basically repost what I said there.

Jesus said that sinners are sick, not dead. Nowhere does scripture relate being dead in sins with total inability. Being dead in sins means to be separated from God. That is what death means. Separation. When someone physically dies, their soul and spirit separates from their body.

Mark 2:16 And when the scribes and Pharisees saw Him eating with the tax collectors and sinners, they said to His disciples, “How is it that He eats and drinks with tax collectors and sinners?” 17 When Jesus heard it, He said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”

Jesus calls sinners, who He said "are sick" to repentance. Who are sinners? All people (Romans 3:23). So, Jesus calls all people to repentance. You contrast that by claiming that He gives repentance and faith only to certain people while thinking that He is satisfied with leaving everyone else in their lost state and destined for eternal torment with no opportunity to repent and believe and be saved.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

How would Paul know who is a true believer and who isn’t? Do you know things like that?

I'm talking about who Paul was intending to address regardless of who might read that letter. He was addressing anyone who fit the description of being holy and sharing in the heavenly calling. Do any unbelievers fit that description? Of course not. Is this all you can say in response to what I said? How about actually addressing the points that I made and answering my questions? I'll try again.

Hebrews 3:12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,

How can someone who isn't a true believer depart from God if they have no relationship with God in the first place? Who else would be told to "exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin" except for true believers? That's not something you would say to someone who isn't a true believer. That is a warning to not become "hardened through the deceitfulness of sin", so it's obviously not a warning given to people who are already hardened. Also, verse 14 is not something that would be said to anyone but true believers because it is addressed to those who have steadfast "confidence" in Christ and talks about the need to hold (keep) it "to the end".

 

[David Lamb]

Where does scripture ever describe being dead in sins as being similar to being physically dead? Nowhere that I am aware of. So, why are you doing that?

I do so because the bible uses the word "dead" in the phrase "dead in trespasses and sins." The whole context of that phrase as it occurs in Ephesians 2 is that of Paul reminding the Ephesian Christians how they had become Christians. They wwere dead in trespasses and sins, and God gave them life.

Do you know that death is separation? When someone physically dies, their soul and spirit separates from their body. When someone is dead in sins it means that they are separated from a personal relationship with God.

While sinners are described as "dead in trespasses and sins", they are also described as being sick, like Jesus did here...

Mark 2:15 Now it happened, as He was dining in Levi’s house, that many tax collectors and sinners also sat together with Jesus and His disciples; for there were many, and they followed Him. 16 And when the scribes and Pharisees saw Him eating with the tax collectors and sinners, they said to His disciples, “How is it that He eats and drinks with tax collectors and sinners?” 17 When Jesus heard it, He said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”

As a Calvinist, you believe in total depravity and total inability when it comes to the unsaved. The ones who Jesus called "sinners", in other words. Yet, Jesus called these supposedly totally depraved and totally unable sinners to repentance. Who are sinners? All people, right (Romans 3:23)? So, Jesus calls all people to repentance. Yet, you try to say that some people are totally depraved and unable to repent. Jesus clearly did not believe or teach that. He fully expected the sinners He dined with at Levi's house to repent and He called them to repent along with all other sinners. That's why He spent time with them, to talk to them about their need to repent. But, God doesn't force/cause/make anyone repent. He makes people responsible to choose to repent or not. And sick people are fully capable of acknowledging that they can't heal themselves and need the physician to heal them without needing some kind of supernatural event to occur that causes them to acknowledge their need for healing while asking the physician to heal them.

Of themselves, those dead in trespasses and sins are indeed unable to do anything about their plight. That is why Ephesians 2 lists the things that God did to make those Ephesians Christians - He made them alive, raised them up, caused them to sit in heavenly places, and saved them by His grace.

Calvinists rightly have a concern about anyone teaching that salvation can be earned by works of righteousness. But, repentance and faith are not the kind of works that Paul talked about when he said that salvation is not by works (Ephesians 2:8-9). He contrasted faith with works. He said we're saved by grace and that we ARE saved through faith, but NOT by works so that no one can boast. So, to try to claim that we are trying to earn our salvation by works if we claim that faith is by our own free will choice does not line up with what scripture teaches. Why would anyone boast after repenting and humbling themselves while admitting that they are a lost sinner who can't save themselves by atoning for their own sins?

 

[Brightfame52]

While I do believe that there is a spiritual Israel which is the church (Romans 9:6-8, Galatians 6:15-16), Acts 5:31 is not referring to spiritual Israel. It is referring to national Israel. Peter and the other apostles were talking to the leaders of the nation of Israel in that verse and telling them that God exalted Jesus to His right hand to be the Prince and Savior. So, the context of what was being talked about was in relation to the nation of Israel. They were talking about the people of Israel being given the opportunity to repent and have their sins forgiven by way of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Nowhere in the surrounding verses can the context be found that they were referring to spiritual Israel in Acts 5:31 rather than the nation of Israel.

Many national Israelites rejected that opportunity to repent unto the forgiveness of sins. Jesus indicated that was because they were not willing to repent and not because He was not willing for them to repent.

Matthew 23:37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! 38 See! Your house is left to you desolate;

How do you reconcile passages like this with your doctrine? In your doctrine, it is Jesus who was not willing to have a relationship with the unbelieving Jews He was talking to in Matthew 23, but He said they were not willing to have a relationship with Him even though He was willing to have a relationship with them.

Yes Acts 5:31 is referring to spiritual Israel otherwise known as the Church, the Body of Christ. He is Saviour here and in Eph 5:23

23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Same Saviour and same body as in Acts 5:31 just the body is called Israel in Acts 5:31

 

[Brightfame52]

Yeah, just keep ignoring the fact that Jesus said that sinners are sick, not dead. Nowhere does scripture relate being dead in sins with total inability. That comes from your imagination. Being dead in sins means to be separated from God. That is what death means. Separation. When someone physically dies, their soul and spirit separates from their body.

Mark 2:16 And when the scribes and Pharisees saw Him eating with the tax collectors and sinners, they said to His disciples, “How is it that He eats and drinks with tax collectors and sinners?” 17 When Jesus heard it, He said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”

Jesus calls sinners, who He said "are sick" to repentance. Who are sinners? All people (Romans 3:23). So, Jesus calls all people to repentance. You contrast that by claiming that He gives repentance only to certain people while thinking that He is satisfied with leaving everyone else in their lost state and destined for eternal torment with no opportunity to repent and be saved.

Man is dead in sin.

 

[Brightfame52]

What he said isn't crazy at all. Many people resist the Holy Spirit and that lines up with what he said.

Acts 7:51 “You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you.

What else were these unbelieving Jews that Stephen rebuked resisting except for the Holy Spirit showing them their need to repent and believe the gospel?

Nobody resists the Spirit when He saves them by regeneration, that's when He gives the dead life

 

[A New Dawn]

I completely disagree. If that was the case then why was Jesus amazed at the great faith of the Roman centurion who asked Him to heal his servant?

Matthew 8:5 When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, asking for help. 6 “Lord,” he said, “my servant lies at home paralyzed, suffering terribly.” 7 Jesus said to him, “Shall I come and heal him?” 8 The centurion replied, “Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9 For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and that one, ‘Come,’ and he comes. I say to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.” 10 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith.

Jesus, being God, would certainly not be amazed by anyone's faith if it was the gift of God. Yet, He was amazed by the centurion's faith. How do you explain that with your understanding of how faith comes about?


No, it's called saving faith because God requires people to have faith in order to be saved.

Acts 16:30 He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”

Without knowing if the jailer was elect/chosen or not, Paul and Silas told him that what he had to do to be saved was "Believe in the Lord Jesus". If faith was given to people then they would have been lying to him because, in that case, they should have said there is nothing he can do to be saved.


You are just making things up. Where does scripture teach this? Why does Jesus call sinners to repentance if they supposedly cannot seek God? Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God (Romans 10:17). Once someone hears the word of God then they have the choice of pursuing it further and seeking God or not. Nowhere does it say that God has to give someone saving faith before they will seek God. If that was the case, then it makes no sense that He would reward anyone for seeking Him (Hebrews 11:6).

So you posit that we can come up with saving faith on our own? If that’s the case, what do we need God for?

And, perhaps, the centurion’s faith was the same type of faith as many of Jesus’ followers faith. The kind that saw miracles (like the loaves and the fishes) and followed because they were fed physically, but not filled spiritually. But still was amazing because the gospel hadn’t been taken to the gentiles yet.

 

[A New Dawn]

I guess you didn't read my post #1066 addressed to Brightfame52. I'll just basically repost what I said there.

Jesus said that sinners are sick, not dead. Nowhere does scripture relate being dead in sins with total inability. Being dead in sins means to be separated from God. That is what death means. Separation. When someone physically dies, their soul and spirit separates from their body.

Mark 2:16 And when the scribes and Pharisees saw Him eating with the tax collectors and sinners, they said to His disciples, “How is it that He eats and drinks with tax collectors and sinners?” 17 When Jesus heard it, He said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”

Jesus calls sinners, who He said "are sick" to repentance. Who are sinners? All people (Romans 3:23). So, Jesus calls all people to repentance. You contrast that by claiming that He gives repentance and faith only to certain people while thinking that He is satisfied with leaving everyone else in their lost state and destined for eternal torment with no opportunity to repent and believe and be saved.

So you are making up something that the scriptures don’t say so you can get to your own conclusions instead of relying on what the scriptures say. I mean, the first part of your response is correct, being spiritually dead is separation from God, but then you back off and say Jesus said something he didn’t say. Jesus never said that sinners are sick, he was using an allegory to demonstrate who He came to save. To use that as saying sinners are “sick” would be the same as calling them chicks because He came together them under his wings.