How is it that the Catholic Church is evil?

[Amo2]

Your reasoning sounds good to you as it is based on scripture, but it is flawed because it ignores other scriptures. Scripture has to be taken as a whole, as we are subject to the word of God, the word of God is not subject to human will.
First, there is no denying that Jesus is the Rock, yet He chose the build His Church on Peter, by His design, not ours.
Christ changed his name from Simon, son of Jonah to Peter, which means rock. Peter lost his authority when he denied Christ. The Apostles did not vote him as chief. His authority was restored by Christ Himself after the resurrection. Peter denied Him three times, so Christ asked him three times, Simon son of Jonah, lovest thou me? The first two He said feed my lambs, when his authority was restored, Our Lord said feed my sheep. Only the shepherd is in charge of the sheep. Peter was the chief shepherd, the vicar of Christ. A Vicar is a representative not Christ Himself, yet he has Christ’s authority until He comes again. Peter was given the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, along with the authority of binding and loosing.
We also see that after the resurrection and before the ascension , Christ gave the authority to forgive and withhold sins to the apostles, when He breathed on them and said receive the Holy Spirit. That authority was then sealed with tongues of fire on Pentecost. The tongues of fire fell on the apostles only, not on all believers that were present, and they spoke in other tounges so that all could understand them, not in gibberish.
Only God has the power to forgive sins, yet He gave it to His apostles to go forth, baptize, preach and teach in His name.
Scripture and history shows this to be true. Scripture says He gave some Apostles, some prophets, some teachers, etc. Not all are apostles, yet we all share in the body of Christ, redeemed by His blood. All parts of the body work together for the building up of the faith
What then of those that deny Apostolic authority? Jesus Himself says a kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. He also knows that the human heart is unstable in all its ways, who can know it?
Christs kingdom is headed by apostolic authority and not subject to the whims of men or as scripture says the winds of doctrine. The Holy Spirit is over His Church, keeping it from error, not by the will or consensus of men. We see the testimony of Iraneus in the second century outlining apostolic succession of the first few Pope’s. Iraneus also recorded the demonstration of the Apostolic teaching which is still valid today, and it is a remarkable work showing the correct interpretation of scripture.
We then see Martin Luther deny the protection of the Holy Spirit over His Church and set out to reform it under the interpretation of man. How did that work out? Well it seems we have as many interpretations as there are people, and the denominations are unstable. People change denominations all the time and many have had to water down their message to be “seeker friendly”.
Some refuse to take a stance on moral issues at all and over emphasize outward expressions over the inward change of a new birth. How do we know who is right?
All like sheep have gone astray each sure of his own right. One would seem to think man had been elevated to God knowing good and evil. We should all know that is not right
Scripture says that God wants obedience rather than sacrifice. How can we obey God whom we cannot see, when we deny His Apostles whom we can see? That is the question we all must answer. There is no ignoring it. I can only tell you that when I reached the end of my arguments and my tongue was stopped, I decided to submit myself to the authority of Christ and His apostolic Church, the sin that used to so easily beset me was gone.
Christ had mercy on me during my time of presumption, else I would not be here today. I did learn that there is nothing in the Catechism of the Catholic Church which contradicts or denies scripture. Apostolic authority is real and I can spend my lifetime learning from them, rather than claiming the authority for myself. I deny myself to follow Christ and His Church

You do well not to actually quote scripture in your above defense, which would easily allow for your arguments to be picked apart. As you yourself pointed out, all the apostle were given power to forgive sins, not just Peter. Peter alone had to be restored as an Apostle, because he alone denied Christ three times.

I do not consider Iraneus or other declared Church Fathers to necessarily be any such thing. To the contrary, many of them were forerunners of antichrist. Scriptural authority always trumping their own testimonies in any case.

Peter of course never claimed any of the authority or position the Church of Rome declares upon him. To the contrary -

1Pe 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

He was one, of the apostles.

1Pe 5:1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed; Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; 3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock. 4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

An elder, and fellow shepherd, among brethren who are all called to feed the flock. To be rewarded by the Chief Shepherd Jesus Christ, when He returns. Not instructing as the Chief Shepherd Himself, which would be blasphemy.

2Pe 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Again, a servant and apostle, not chief shepherd, or bishop over and above all others.

Mat 16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? 14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. 15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ. 21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. 22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. 23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

How is it, that you accept the words of our Lord in verses 17-19 as establishing Peter as the foundation stone of Christ's church, while ignoring the implications of our Lord's words shortly thereafter in verse 23, declaring him to be Satan himself? It is easy of course to see why you would prefer the first over the second. Nevertheless, the latter statement would be the final words on the subject of course, reversing the declaration of former statement. If the first statement is to be taken literally, then why not the second, no doubt only minutes later.

To the contrary of course, neither was to be taken literally regarding Peter Himself. Rather being applied by our Lord to the faith in accordance with God's will, each statement by Peter represented or not. If this is not the case, then the latter statement of our Lord pertaining to Peter still literally stands, and Peter is Satan indeed.

Neither is the case of course, as once again later, Peter messed up. Being restored to the position of apostle by our Lord in asking him to feed his flock three times, by Peter's profession of his faith in Christ again three times, undoing his triple denial of his Lord previously. Amen.

Jhn 21:15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these?He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs. 16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep. 17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

 

[Amo2]

CHRIST AND ROME​

CHAP. 2 THE FLESH AND THE BLOOD

John 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. 58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

The next spiritual truth that we will examine which has been literalized by the church of Rome, is the Eucharist. The church of Rome contends that Christ was speaking of changing the bread and wine of the above verses, into the literal body and blood of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. She also contends that true believers must partake of this literal body and blood. Of course, the only ones that can perform this transubstantiation, are the priests of the church of Rome. In this way again, the church of Rome has sought to set herself up in a position of power and authority over all those who would be true believers. Indeed, over all the world, if they wish to be saved.

If indeed, bread and wine must be transformed into the literal body and blood of Christ and only the priest's of Rome can perform this miracle, then all are dependent upon Rome for salvation. So now, Peter was handed special authority over the church of Christ, whom the Popes now represent. In this manner, a mere man has been put in between humanity and God. Now also, the priests in subjection to this man, have been given by him, the power to perform this miracle by which the true believer may partake of Christ unto salvation. Both of these claims to authority come to the church of Rome by way of making spiritual truths in the holy scriptures into literal manifestations conducted by her own hierarchy. They both place mere men between humanity and God, a thing which our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ came specifically to abolish. We will discuss this issue in more depth in following chapters.

Let us examine the spiritual truth of the above verses which is ignored by the church of Rome so as to establish herself in authority. After saying in verse fifty six, "He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him", Christ goes on in the very next verse to explain what he had just said. " 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me " Are we to suppose from the above verses, that Christ was continually changing bread and wine into the literal body and blood of his Father while here on earth, and eating him, so as to live by his Father? Of course not. We know that the Father lived within the Son through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit which he gave to his son ( Jn. 1:32 ). This is why Christ came to earth, and became one of us. So that He could dwell within the believer through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit of God. This does not happen by ingesting the literal body and blood of Christ, but by faith in the Son of God and submission to his will. Observe the following scriptures.

John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. 18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

The Father was in Christ, and Christ was in him. This was not accomplished by Christ eating the literal flesh and blood of the Father. Likewise, Christ does not live in the believer by the ingestion of his literal flesh and blood. Christ was our example in all things, as the Father was in Christ and Christ in Him, so are we to be in Christ that the Father and Son might be in us. Verse seventeen points out how this takes place. True believers are sanctified through God's truth, His word is truth. It is by the ingestion or taking in of God's word, that believers receive the Holy Spirit of God. This is a spiritual experience, not a literal one. It will however have literal effects upon one’s life, by conforming the believer into the likeness of the Father and Son, which is salvation.

Matt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Those who receive the word of God intending to make it the rule of their lives, are those whom the Holy Spirit of God will come into and use for His glory. This is how God dwells within the believer, not by eating and drinking some wine and bread that some claim to have changed into the body and blood of Christ. It requires no change of heart or mind to eat some bread, and drink some wine. On the other hand, it requires submission to God, to believe and act upon his word. This can be accomplished only by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit of God, and it unquestionably changes the heart and actions of the believer into the likeness of their Lord's. This spiritual truth is lost sight of, in the literal interpretation of Christ's words by the Church of Rome’s Eucharist and transubstantiation.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. 19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. 20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Those who love God will endeavor to keep his commandments. Only those who have made this choice, that is to allow Christ to rule in their lives, will receive the Spirit of truth. Without this Holy Spirit, it is impossible to serve God or keep his commandments. The world cannot receive the Holy Spirit, because it will not submit to the word of God. This is why only true believers can enter into the experience that Christ is referring to when he speaks of eating his flesh and drinking his blood. By making this spiritual truth into the literal mere ingestion of bread and wine, the church of Rome has set up a system and a people who have only a form of godliness, denying the power thereof.

1 Cor 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. 25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. 26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. 27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

As Paul points out in the above verses, partaking of the bread and wine is a reminder of the Lord's death on our behalf, till he comes again. This is exactly where all true believers begin and maintain their walk with God, at the foot of the cross. It is by entering into Christ's death, the full submission and surrender of self, that Christ is enabled to live within us. Accepting Christ's death for us as not only in our place but as our own, that we may walk in newness of life by the power of the Holy Spirit of God. This is what it means to eat the flesh, and drink the blood of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To be in him at his death, that he might be in us in newness of life. His life, not our own. For Christ was obedient to the Father even to the point of death, that we might die with him in order to receive power to be obedient to the Father also. You in Christ, and Christ in you, the hope of glory.

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: 27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

 

[boughtwithaprice]

CHRIST AND ROME​

CHAP. 2 THE FLESH AND THE BLOOD

John 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. 58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

The next spiritual truth that we will examine which has been literalized by the church of Rome, is the Eucharist. The church of Rome contends that Christ was speaking of changing the bread and wine of the above verses, into the literal body and blood of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. She also contends that true believers must partake of this literal body and blood. Of course, the only ones that can perform this transubstantiation, are the priests of the church of Rome. In this way again, the church of Rome has sought to set herself up in a position of power and authority over all those who would be true believers. Indeed, over all the world, if they wish to be saved.

If indeed, bread and wine must be transformed into the literal body and blood of Christ and only the priest's of Rome can perform this miracle, then all are dependent upon Rome for salvation. So now, Peter was handed special authority over the church of Christ, whom the Popes now represent. In this manner, a mere man has been put in between humanity and God. Now also, the priests in subjection to this man, have been given by him, the power to perform this miracle by which the true believer may partake of Christ unto salvation. Both of these claims to authority come to the church of Rome by way of making spiritual truths in the holy scriptures into literal manifestations conducted by her own hierarchy. They both place mere men between humanity and God, a thing which our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ came specifically to abolish. We will discuss this issue in more depth in following chapters.

Let us examine the spiritual truth of the above verses which is ignored by the church of Rome so as to establish herself in authority. After saying in verse fifty six, "He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him", Christ goes on in the very next verse to explain what he had just said. " 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me " Are we to suppose from the above verses, that Christ was continually changing bread and wine into the literal body and blood of his Father while here on earth, and eating him, so as to live by his Father? Of course not. We know that the Father lived within the Son through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit which he gave to his son ( Jn. 1:32 ). This is why Christ came to earth, and became one of us. So that He could dwell within the believer through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit of God. This does not happen by ingesting the literal body and blood of Christ, but by faith in the Son of God and submission to his will. Observe the following scriptures.

John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. 18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

The Father was in Christ, and Christ was in him. This was not accomplished by Christ eating the literal flesh and blood of the Father. Likewise, Christ does not live in the believer by the ingestion of his literal flesh and blood. Christ was our example in all things, as the Father was in Christ and Christ in Him, so are we to be in Christ that the Father and Son might be in us. Verse seventeen points out how this takes place. True believers are sanctified through God's truth, His word is truth. It is by the ingestion or taking in of God's word, that believers receive the Holy Spirit of God. This is a spiritual experience, not a literal one. It will however have literal effects upon one’s life, by conforming the believer into the likeness of the Father and Son, which is salvation.

Matt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Those who receive the word of God intending to make it the rule of their lives, are those whom the Holy Spirit of God will come into and use for His glory. This is how God dwells within the believer, not by eating and drinking some wine and bread that some claim to have changed into the body and blood of Christ. It requires no change of heart or mind to eat some bread, and drink some wine. On the other hand, it requires submission to God, to believe and act upon his word. This can be accomplished only by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit of God, and it unquestionably changes the heart and actions of the believer into the likeness of their Lord's. This spiritual truth is lost sight of, in the literal interpretation of Christ's words by the Church of Rome’s Eucharist and transubstantiation.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. 19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. 20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Those who love God will endeavor to keep his commandments. Only those who have made this choice, that is to allow Christ to rule in their lives, will receive the Spirit of truth. Without this Holy Spirit, it is impossible to serve God or keep his commandments. The world cannot receive the Holy Spirit, because it will not submit to the word of God. This is why only true believers can enter into the experience that Christ is referring to when he speaks of eating his flesh and drinking his blood. By making this spiritual truth into the literal mere ingestion of bread and wine, the church of Rome has set up a system and a people who have only a form of godliness, denying the power thereof.

1 Cor 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. 25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. 26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. 27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

As Paul points out in the above verses, partaking of the bread and wine is a reminder of the Lord's death on our behalf, till he comes again. This is exactly where all true believers begin and maintain their walk with God, at the foot of the cross. It is by entering into Christ's death, the full submission and surrender of self, that Christ is enabled to live within us. Accepting Christ's death for us as not only in our place but as our own, that we may walk in newness of life by the power of the Holy Spirit of God. This is what it means to eat the flesh, and drink the blood of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To be in him at his death, that he might be in us in newness of life. His life, not our own. For Christ was obedient to the Father even to the point of death, that we might die with him in order to receive power to be obedient to the Father also. You in Christ, and Christ in you, the hope of glory.

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: 27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

The counter to your argument is that Christ taught in Aramaic. In Aramaic, to symbolically eat the flesh and drink the blood of someone meant to persecute, denigrate and destroy some one. If Jesus was speaking symbolically, the objections of the unbelievers would have been ridicule instead of unbelief.
The modern equivalent of the Aramaic symbolism is to urinate on someone’s grave in utter and complete contempt. Would Jesus really say, unless you urinate on my grave, you have no life in you? No! He was speaking as His flesh is real food and His blood is real drink.
We also have the witness of Paul that we cannot take the Eucharist unworthily, lest we fail to discern the body and blood of Our Lord. There is also the fact that for the first 1500 years of the Church, it was taught the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. The reformers were obviously ignorant of the Aramaic idiom, or else they would not have made the symbolic arguments. Even Luther fought against them.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

You do well not to actually quote scripture in your above defense, which would easily allow for your arguments to be picked apart. As you yourself pointed out, all the apostle were given power to forgive sins, not just Peter. Peter alone had to be restored as an Apostle, because he alone denied Christ three times.

I do not consider Iraneus or other declared Church Fathers to necessarily be any such thing. To the contrary, many of them were forerunners of antichrist. Scriptural authority always trumping their own testimonies in any case.

Peter of course never claimed any of the authority or position the Church of Rome declares upon him. To the contrary -

1Pe 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

He was one, of the apostles.

1Pe 5:1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed; Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; 3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock. 4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

An elder, and fellow shepherd, among brethren who are all called to feed the flock. To be rewarded by the Chief Shepherd Jesus Christ, when He returns. Not instructing as the Chief Shepherd Himself, which would be blasphemy.

2Pe 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Again, a servant and apostle, not chief shepherd, or bishop over and above all others.

Mat 16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? 14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. 15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ. 21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. 22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. 23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

How is it, that you accept the words of our Lord in verses 17-19 as establishing Peter as the foundation stone of Christ's church, while ignoring the implications of our Lord's words shortly thereafter in verse 23, declaring him to be Satan himself? It is easy of course to see why you would prefer the first over the second. Nevertheless, the latter statement would be the final words on the subject of course, reversing the declaration of former statement. If the first statement is to be taken literally, then why not the second, no doubt only minutes later.

To the contrary of course, neither was to be taken literally regarding Peter Himself. Rather being applied by our Lord to the faith in accordance with God's will, each statement by Peter represented or not. If this is not the case, then the latter statement of our Lord pertaining to Peter still literally stands, and Peter is Satan indeed.

Neither is the case of course, as once again later, Peter messed up. Being restored to the position of apostle by our Lord in asking him to feed his flock three times, by Peter's profession of his faith in Christ again three times, undoing his triple denial of his Lord previously. Amen.

Jhn 21:15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these?He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs. 16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep. 17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

What you neglect to note is that Jesus taught the Apostles not to Lord their position over each other. The greatest among you will be your servant.

Also scripture tells us to be humble and consider all others as better than themselves. We have evidence from the Apostles and early Church fathers that they submitted to Peter as Pope and then his Apostolic successors, as Peter was handed the keys to the kingdom of heaven.
There is nothing more boastful than the claim to speak for God based on personal analysis. When we were children, we used to try to ascert authority by calling “dibs”. Some other kid modified the dibs by saying “God sayer, no higher”
It has become like children on a playground that speak for the “reformation”. Everyone asserts authority and no one obeys. If they don’t like what a pastor is saying, they pick up and move, split assemblies of form new denominations. There is no respect for God’s anointed and each wants to become his own Pope.
Jesus said it would be as in the days of Noah. How was it then? Everyone lived as seemed right in their own eyes. Complete anarchy and chaos. The strife got worse and worse till God said enough. He promised not to destroy the world by flood again, but that does not mean that He is happy with the same situation repeating.

Peter did not have to assert his authority as Pope, because all Christians saw that Christ handed him the keys of the kingdom of heaven.
As Christians they denied themselves and took up their cross, and they remained in humble obedience to the holder of the keys.
You are right that Peter had to be restored by Christ, what you don’t note is that the other apostles did not have the authority to do it, even if they wanted to submit to him as Pope. Jesus restored him and gave Peter the charge to feed the sheep, making him the chief shepherd. We have evidence from the first and second century of that happening
The Bible says Jesus called Peter satan and Paul opposed him to his face. That shows the peccability of the man, but does not denigrate the office Peter held. Infallibility does not equal impeccability. Peter is the Vicar of Christ, not Christ Himself. Paul gave Peter the dignity of opposing him to his face, he did not spread rumors or attempt to sow discord by casting him into doubt. He spoke directly to him about the issue and wrote about it AFTER Peter had already concurred that he was wrong.
As far as being called Satan, Peter was ignorant of the fact the Jesus had to suffer and die for the sins of the world. They thought He was messiah that would throw off the yoke of the Romans and restore the kingdom to Israel. They were still expecting it even after the Resurrection. We read in the book of Acts that they asked Jesus, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?
He answered it is not for you to know the times and seasons that the Father has fixed by His own authority. It was the temptation to be a political leader instead of a suffering servant that Christ cried out about, Get behind me Satan! That was the same temptation that Satan had offered Jesus in the desert. It in no way undermined the office which Jesus had just placed Peter.

It is out of humility that Catholics defer ecclesial authority to the Pope. Even if we have a bad Pope, we obey and pray about what God wants us to learn from his being Pope. We read in Peter’s epistles that servants obey your masters, not only the good but also the froward. Catholics take that example and treat a bad Pope as David treated Saul. “I cannot lift my hand against God’s anointed” (paraphrase)


You seem well versed in scripture, you should know the verses to which I am referring. I am sure you can find them. I also offer you the Catechism of the Catholic Church and 2000 years of Church history. If you find error in my words you can show me from any of those sources. It is not for me to get you to obey my words or give me honor. I want you to take all things into consideration as you endeavor to follow our Lord Jesus Christ.

Peace be with you

 

[Amo2]

The counter to your argument is that Christ taught in Aramaic. In Aramaic, to symbolically eat the flesh and drink the blood of someone meant to persecute, denigrate and destroy some one. If Jesus was speaking symbolically, the objections of the unbelievers would have been ridicule instead of unbelief.
The modern equivalent of the Aramaic symbolism is to urinate on someone’s grave in utter and complete contempt. Would Jesus really say, unless you urinate on my grave, you have no life in you? No! He was speaking as His flesh is real food and His blood is real drink.
We also have the witness of Paul that we cannot take the Eucharist unworthily, lest we fail to discern the body and blood of Our Lord. There is also the fact that for the first 1500 years of the Church, it was taught the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. The reformers were obviously ignorant of the Aramaic idiom, or else they would not have made the symbolic arguments. Even Luther fought against them.

The teachings of holy scripture are not bound, restricted, or to be interpreted in any way shape or form, by Arab folk lore, traditions, or culture. They are to be interpreted and bound by other scriptures which address and or expound upon identical matters and or those closely related to them.

After referring to some of the very verses I quoted in making my points, which you did not quote for I think obvious reasons, you add your own or shall I say Catholic spin to the verses. Paul said nothing about discerning the body and blood of our Lord, but rather being guilty of it, when one partakes of the reminders of our Lord's death until He comes.

1Co 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: 24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. 25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. 26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. 27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

Nothing about discerning the body and blood of our Lord, as in that they are literally the body and blood, but rather the guilt connected with performing this act unworthily. Or shall we say
insincerely. Apart from this, there is the matter of the completely extra biblical establishment of a "priesthood" who alone can supposedly transform bread and wine in the literal blood and body of our Lord. Who everyone else of course, is dependent upon. None of which is taught or established in scripture at all. These are the teachings and priesthood of Roman Catholicism, not holy scripture.

The Eucharist is a symbolic act in remembrance of the sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ once, and for all.

Heb 7:26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; 27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. 28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

Heb 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; 26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Heb 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

The above one sacrifice for all, is what is to be remembered in the Eucharist. Faith in the salvation provided by our Lord in and by that one sacrifice. No literal bloody or un-bloody sacrifices needed again, but rather the spiritual sacrifices of the New Covenant era by faith alone. Not some other type of supposed priestly sacrifice by men which have infirmities. AMEN!

 

[Amo2]

What you neglect to note is that Jesus taught the Apostles not to Lord their position over each other. The greatest among you will be your servant.

I have not neglected the above obvious truth. To the contrary, that truth is exactly how I know the Popes are non biblical usurpers of the position which Christ alone occupies for every believer. As one papal bull of the past clearly demonstrates the true nature of the popes and the papacy.

UNAM SANCTAM
Bull of Pope Boniface VIII promulgated November 18, 1302
​

..................................................................................................................................
Therefore, if the terrestrial power err, it will be judged by the spiritual power; but if a minor spiritual power err, it will be judged by a superior spiritual power; but if the highest power of all err, it can be judged only by God, and not by man, according to the testimony of the Apostle: 'The spiritual man judgeth of all things and he himself is judged by no man' [1 Cor 2:15]. This authority, however, (though it has been given to man and is exercised by man), is not human but rather divine, granted to Peter by a divine word and reaffirmed to him (Peter) and his successors by the One Whom Peter confessed, the Lord saying to Peter himself, 'Whatsoever you shall bind on earth, shall be bound also in Heaven' etc., [Mt 16:19]. Therefore whoever resists this power thus ordained by God, resists the ordinance of God [Rom 13:2], unless he invent like Manicheus two beginnings, which is false and judged by us heretical, since according to the testimony of Moses, it is not in the beginnings but in the beginning that God created heaven and earth [Gen 1:1]. Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.

Also scripture tells us to be humble and consider all others as better than themselves. We have evidence from the Apostles and early Church fathers that they submitted to Peter as Pope and then his Apostolic successors, as Peter was handed the keys to the kingdom of heaven.
There is nothing more boastful than the claim to speak for God based on personal analysis. When we were children, we used to try to ascert authority by calling “dibs”. Some other kid modified the dibs by saying “God sayer, no higher”
It has become like children on a playground that speak for the “reformation”. Everyone asserts authority and no one obeys. If they don’t like what a pastor is saying, they pick up and move, split assemblies of form new denominations. There is no respect for God’s anointed and each wants to become his own Pope.
Jesus said it would be as in the days of Noah. How was it then? Everyone lived as seemed right in their own eyes. Complete anarchy and chaos. The strife got worse and worse till God said enough. He promised not to destroy the world by flood again, but that does not mean that He is happy with the same situation repeating.

Keep your child psychology to yourself. Stop accusing those who place more authority upon the holy scriptures than mere human beings, of doing exactly what the Catholic Church does in regard to their popes and clergy. Neither God, nor holy scripture, nor any of the apostles, set Peter above all others as Catholics do. This is a Catholic thing, not a biblical or apostolic thing.

Peter did not have to assert his authority as Pope, because all Christians saw that Christ handed him the keys of the kingdom of heaven.
As Christians they denied themselves and took up their cross, and they remained in humble obedience to the holder of the keys.

The above is a completely false statement, what we call a lie. All professed Christians never accepted or believed what you claim above. As a good Roman Catholic you are once again referring to scriptures without quoting them, because if you quoted them all would see that you have added Roman Catholic thought and tradition to the scriptures you have referred to. In an attempt apparently, to give scriptural authority to exclusively Roman Catholic Dogma. Or in other words, you are promulgating another untruth, or lie.

Mat 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. 39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

Mrk 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

Luk 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. 24 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.

Luk 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

There are no references to any keys, popes, or the Catholic church in any of the above verses which may be associated with your misleading statement. To the contrary, the words of Christ the Messiah of the Jews was to Jews of the day, concerning the cross which our Lord alone bore, and following Him personally and no other. To apply these words to any other mere man and or institution is in fact blasphemous. Which is no doubt why the following remaining verses which may be associated with your misleading statement brings satanic delusions regarding Peter himself into the scenario. As a prophetic warning perhaps, to those of the future who would and are being deceived by the false claims of papal supremacy, as though established by God or His word. Which it absolutely is not. Being contended by authentic Christians, from the Church of Rome's inception, not to mention being prophesied about by Paul concerning a future man of sin.

Mrk 8:31 And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again. 32 And he spake that saying openly. And Peter took him, and began to rebuke him. 33 But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men. 34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.

You are right that Peter had to be restored by Christ, what you don’t note is that the other apostles did not have the authority to do it, even if they wanted to submit to him as Pope. Jesus restored him and gave Peter the charge to feed the sheep, making him the chief shepherd. We have evidence from the first and second century of that happening
The Bible says Jesus called Peter satan and Paul opposed him to his face. That shows the peccability of the man, but does not denigrate the office Peter held. Infallibility does not equal impeccability. Peter is the Vicar of Christ, not Christ Himself. Paul gave Peter the dignity of opposing him to his face, he did not spread rumors or attempt to sow discord by casting him into doubt. He spoke directly to him about the issue and wrote about it AFTER Peter had already concurred that he was wrong.
As far as being called Satan, Peter was ignorant of the fact the Jesus had to suffer and die for the sins of the world. They thought He was messiah that would throw off the yoke of the Romans and restore the kingdom to Israel. They were still expecting it even after the Resurrection. We read in the book of Acts that they asked Jesus, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?
He answered it is not for you to know the times and seasons that the Father has fixed by His own authority. It was the temptation to be a political leader instead of a suffering servant that Christ cried out about, Get behind me Satan! That was the same temptation that Satan had offered Jesus in the desert. It in no way undermined the office which Jesus had just placed Peter.

It is out of humility that Catholics defer ecclesial authority to the Pope. Even if we have a bad Pope, we obey and pray about what God wants us to learn from his being Pope. We read in Peter’s epistles that servants obey your masters, not only the good but also the froward. Catholics take that example and treat a bad Pope as David treated Saul. “I cannot lift my hand against God’s anointed” (paraphrase)


You seem well versed in scripture, you should know the verses to which I am referring. I am sure you can find them. I also offer you the Catechism of the Catholic Church and 2000 years of Church history. If you find error in my words you can show me from any of those sources. It is not for me to get you to obey my words or give me honor. I want you to take all things into consideration as you endeavor to follow our Lord Jesus Christ.

Peace be with you

I know very well that Christ alone could forgive Peter, and give him power and authority as an apostle once again. He was not elevated above the other apostles, but reinstated among them, which was necessary for him alone who denied his professed Lord three times. As a Catholic you may of course make what you wish of it, as you do. Nevertheless, your claims above have been contested by authentic Christians and Christianity as already stated, from the very beginnings of what would eventually become Roman Catholicism. Which protest I maintain to this day, right here and now on these boards.

I know of no scriptures which support the existence of the papacy itself, let alone a pope or shall we say high priest of the New Covenant, other than our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Those of us who believe the above scriptures have no need of any high priests or even priests with infirmities. We have been invited to come boldly and directly before the throne of God with our petitions, and by faith in the holy scriptures understand that this is exactly where our Lord, Savior, and High Priest, Jesus Christ ever liveth to make intercession for us.

Heb 7:24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. 25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. 26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; 27Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

Why would we turn to mere men for such, when our Lord came to give us direct access to the very throne of God who loves us infinitely more than any other can, and lived and died for us as one of us for this very purpose. My Lord came to establish a most intimate personal relationship with each of us, which no man or institution will interfere with, with impunity before God. I'm sorry, but people who have the holy scriptures and believe its testimony, simply have no need of a pope or priesthood to intercede for them. All who teach and or demand such are as Peter was, when attempting to persuade our Lord not to suffer the cross, which very thing established these divinely ordained freedoms and powers freely given to all. Which popes and or priesthoods only interfere with. So be it.

Why would I try to convince you of anything according to your own Catholic teachings, a great deal of which I disagree with?

 

[boughtwithaprice]

The teachings of holy scripture are not bound, restricted, or to be interpreted in any way shape or form, by Arab folk lore, traditions, or culture. They are to be interpreted and bound by other scriptures which address and or expound upon identical matters and or those closely related to them.

After referring to some of the very verses I quoted in making my points, which you did not quote for I think obvious reasons, you add your own or shall I say Catholic spin to the verses. Paul said nothing about discerning the body and blood of our Lord, but rather being guilty of it, when one partakes of the reminders of our Lord's death until He comes.

1Co 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: 24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. 25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. 26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. 27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

Nothing about discerning the body and blood of our Lord, as in that they are literally the body and blood, but rather the guilt connected with performing this act unworthily. Or shall we say
insincerely. Apart from this, there is the matter of the completely extra biblical establishment of a "priesthood" who alone can supposedly transform bread and wine in the literal blood and body of our Lord. Who everyone else of course, is dependent upon. None of which is taught or established in scripture at all. These are the teachings and priesthood of Roman Catholicism, not holy scripture.

The Eucharist is a symbolic act in remembrance of the sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ once, and for all.

Heb 7:26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; 27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. 28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

Heb 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; 26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Heb 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

The above one sacrifice for all, is what is to be remembered in the Eucharist. Faith in the salvation provided by our Lord in and by that one sacrifice. No literal bloody or un-bloody sacrifices needed again, but rather the spiritual sacrifices of the New Covenant era by faith alone. Not some other type of supposed priestly sacrifice by men which have infirmities. AMEN!

NO-men

The Eucharist is a continual presentation of Our Lord’s sacrifice, not repetitive sacrifices. This was understood for 1500 years and follows the command Do this in Remembrance of me.

We call to mind the passion and death of Our Lord at each Mass, and we eat the body and blood which He offered. It is not symbolic. That is Protestant spin that only started spinning 1500 years after the Church

 

[Amo2]

CHRIST AND ROME

CHAP. 3 THE PRIESTHOOD​

1 Pet 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. 6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. 7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. 9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

According to the Apostle Peter, those who have accepted the Lord Jesus Christ as their personal Savior, are a royal and holy priesthood. Each member of the body of Christ is an ambassador for Christ. Using whatever gifts of the Spirit that God gives them to bring people to a knowledge of God by introducing them to His Son, who is the image of the invisible God (Col 1:15). Unlike the priests of the old covenant who stood as a type of Christ, mediating if you will between humanity and God, new covenant believers introduce the world to the one and only true mediator between man and God. The literal priesthood of the old covenant has been abolished by Christ in favor of the spiritual priesthood of the new covenant.

The old covenant believer was dependent upon a literal human being and place to receive forgiveness of sins. The new covenant believer however, after being introduced to the Lord Jesus Christ our High Priest who ever liveth to intercede for us, can receive forgiveness for sins at any time and in any place ( Jn 4: 19-24). The new covenant believer has no need for a human go between, but has been given direct access to the throne of God in and through the ministration of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Each believer may now come boldly before the throne of God with their prayers and confessions, entreating the mercies of our loving God. This is among the most precious promises of the new testament scriptures.

Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Heb 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. 26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; 27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

The Lord Jesus Christ came to earth and became one of us, so that we could each have a close and personal relationship with Him and his Father in heaven. The Devil has ever sought to separate humanity from God. With the cooperation of our first parents he succeeded in the garden. Ever since, God has been seeking to bring us back, and Satan has been seeking to keep us apart. Jesus came to draw all humanity to the Father. Through His intercession humanity has been given the opportunity of a direct personal relationship with the Father, which none can hinder save ourselves.

Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

As is the habit of the church of Rome, putting the literal, in the place of the spiritual, she has destroyed the intimacy which God intended between Himself and his followers. The church of Rome has established a literal priesthood upon which her people are dependent for the forgiveness of their sins. Her adherents are required to confess their sins to their priest that he might grant them God's forgiveness. Again, the church of Rome separates its adherents from God by substituting Christ’s Priestly ministry with its own literal one. This again also, establishes itself in a position of authority over all who accept her dogmas. What can be more intimate than asking for, and receiving forgiveness from a loved one? Even this is denied those who accept the intercession of Rome.

Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. 7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. 8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, 16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. 19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; 21 And having an high priest over the house of God; 22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Why would anyone who has direct access to the throne of God, and an invitation from God himself to go there whenever they need to, seek intercession from another sinful and fallible human being. Jesus Christ is our High Priest. By His blood we may all enter in through the veil into the holiest, where Christ ever liveth to make intercession for us. This was accomplished through his flesh, verse 20. His flesh was our flesh, He became one of us, so we could enter into the holiest and have direct access to the throne of God. We no longer need anyone between us and God the Father. Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father but through Him (Joh 14:6). He presented his body a living sacrifice unto God that we might be able to follow in his footsteps, because His body was our body, and His flesh was our flesh.

The primary role of the priesthood during the old covenant was to officiate the sacrifice. This role has been taken from humanity and established by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ the true Sacrifice. The sacrifice of the new covenant believer is clearly pointed out by the Apostle Paul.

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Christ has prepared the way, that we may give our own selves as living and holy sacrifices unto God. This is our spiritual service of worship in the new covenant. These things Christ has accomplished by becoming one of us. Now, what person can officiate between the individual and God, when all have been given the power to present themselves directly to God as a living and holy sacrifice. This is what has been granted to all through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. He has established a close and personal relationship with God for each and every individual who cares to accept such. There is no need for the priesthood of the church of Rome or any other than that of Christ Himself. The priesthood of the new covenant on earth is Christ’s church or body as Peter whom the Church of Rome contends was their first Pope, has taught. The ministry of which is to introduce all to Jesus Christ our High Priest through whom we all have access to the Father (Heb 8:1&2, Eph 2:11-22).

Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

If by faith, I have died with Christ, I am freed from my sin. I personally have been empowered to do this thing by faith, and so has anyone else who cares to accept it. How says the church of Rome that I need a priest, that is, another sinful human being to officiate between God and I? Why would the church of Rome nullify the grace of God? Why does she wish to take this gift away from humanity, which was given at such infinite cost? The answer is clear, she seeks power over the world that has not been granted her from God. She seeks to be in the place of God. This is the original sin of Satan himself (Isa. 14: 12-15). These things will be discussed in greater detail, in following chapters.

The setting up of a literal priesthood by the church of Rome, separates those who believe her from their Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, the true High Priest of the new covenant. As always, it establishes her in a position of authority between man and God over all that submit to her usurped authority. This is the true nature of the church of Rome. Her dogmas serve the purpose of separating humanity from their God, and only hope of salvation. All this she does, while claiming to be the one and only original church of Christ on earth. Supplanting the true church of Christ, while separating humanity from their God with her dogmas which cause interference between Christ and His chosen.

 

[concretecamper]

A contraceptive mentality is wrong, regardless of the means employed.

 

[concretecamper]

CHRIST AND ROME

CHAP. 3 THE PRIESTHOOD​

1 Pet 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. 6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. 7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. 9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

According to the Apostle Peter, those who have accepted the Lord Jesus Christ as their personal Savior, are a royal and holy priesthood. Each member of the body of Christ is an ambassador for Christ. Using whatever gifts of the Spirit that God gives them to bring people to a knowledge of God by introducing them to His Son, who is the image of the invisible God (Col 1:15). Unlike the priests of the old covenant who stood as a type of Christ, mediating if you will between humanity and God, new covenant believers introduce the world to the one and only true mediator between man and God. The literal priesthood of the old covenant has been abolished by Christ in favor of the spiritual priesthood of the new covenant.

The old covenant believer was dependent upon a literal human being and place to receive forgiveness of sins. The new covenant believer however, after being introduced to the Lord Jesus Christ our High Priest who ever liveth to intercede for us, can receive forgiveness for sins at any time and in any place ( Jn 4: 19-24). The new covenant believer has no need for a human go between, but has been given direct access to the throne of God in and through the ministration of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Each believer may now come boldly before the throne of God with their prayers and confessions, entreating the mercies of our loving God. This is among the most precious promises of the new testament scriptures.

Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Heb 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. 26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; 27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

The Lord Jesus Christ came to earth and became one of us, so that we could each have a close and personal relationship with Him and his Father in heaven. The Devil has ever sought to separate humanity from God. With the cooperation of our first parents he succeeded in the garden. Ever since, God has been seeking to bring us back, and Satan has been seeking to keep us apart. Jesus came to draw all humanity to the Father. Through His intercession humanity has been given the opportunity of a direct personal relationship with the Father, which none can hinder save ourselves.

Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

As is the habit of the church of Rome, putting the literal, in the place of the spiritual, she has destroyed the intimacy which God intended between Himself and his followers. The church of Rome has established a literal priesthood upon which her people are dependent for the forgiveness of their sins. Her adherents are required to confess their sins to their priest that he might grant them God's forgiveness. Again, the church of Rome separates its adherents from God by substituting Christ’s Priestly ministry with its own literal one. This again also, establishes itself in a position of authority over all who accept her dogmas. What can be more intimate than asking for, and receiving forgiveness from a loved one? Even this is denied those who accept the intercession of Rome.

Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. 7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. 8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, 16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. 19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; 21 And having an high priest over the house of God; 22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Why would anyone who has direct access to the throne of God, and an invitation from God himself to go there whenever they need to, seek intercession from another sinful and fallible human being. Jesus Christ is our High Priest. By His blood we may all enter in through the veil into the holiest, where Christ ever liveth to make intercession for us. This was accomplished through his flesh, verse 20. His flesh was our flesh, He became one of us, so we could enter into the holiest and have direct access to the throne of God. We no longer need anyone between us and God the Father. Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father but through Him (Joh 14:6). He presented his body a living sacrifice unto God that we might be able to follow in his footsteps, because His body was our body, and His flesh was our flesh.

The primary role of the priesthood during the old covenant was to officiate the sacrifice. This role has been taken from humanity and established by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ the true Sacrifice. The sacrifice of the new covenant believer is clearly pointed out by the Apostle Paul.

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Christ has prepared the way, that we may give our own selves as living and holy sacrifices unto God. This is our spiritual service of worship in the new covenant. These things Christ has accomplished by becoming one of us. Now, what person can officiate between the individual and God, when all have been given the power to present themselves directly to God as a living and holy sacrifice. This is what has been granted to all through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. He has established a close and personal relationship with God for each and every individual who cares to accept such. There is no need for the priesthood of the church of Rome or any other than that of Christ Himself. The priesthood of the new covenant on earth is Christ’s church or body as Peter whom the Church of Rome contends was their first Pope, has taught. The ministry of which is to introduce all to Jesus Christ our High Priest through whom we all have access to the Father (Heb 8:1&2, Eph 2:11-22).

Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

If by faith, I have died with Christ, I am freed from my sin. I personally have been empowered to do this thing by faith, and so has anyone else who cares to accept it. How says the church of Rome that I need a priest, that is, another sinful human being to officiate between God and I? Why would the church of Rome nullify the grace of God? Why does she wish to take this gift away from humanity, which was given at such infinite cost? The answer is clear, she seeks power over the world that has not been granted her from God. She seeks to be in the place of God. This is the original sin of Satan himself (Isa. 14: 12-15). These things will be discussed in greater detail, in following chapters.

The setting up of a literal priesthood by the church of Rome, separates those who believe her from their Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, the true High Priest of the new covenant. As always, it establishes her in a position of authority between man and God over all that submit to her usurped authority. This is the true nature of the church of Rome. Her dogmas serve the purpose of separating humanity from their God, and only hope of salvation. All this she does, while claiming to be the one and only original church of Christ on earth. Supplanting the true church of Christ, while separating humanity from their God with her dogmas which cause interference between Christ and His chosen.

Blah, blah, blah, blah

 

[concretecamper]

Trent

If anyone denies that each and all of Christ’s faithful of both sexes are bound, when they have reached the years of discretion, to communicate every year at least at Easter,[50] in accordance with the precept of holy mother Church, let him be anathema.

If anyone denies that in the sacrament of the most Holy Eucharist are contained truly, really and substantially the body and blood together with the soul and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ, and consequently the whole Christ,[42] but says that He is in it only as in a sign, or figure or force, let him be anathema.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

CHRIST AND ROME

CHAP. 3 THE PRIESTHOOD​

1 Pet 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. 6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. 7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. 9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

According to the Apostle Peter, those who have accepted the Lord Jesus Christ as their personal Savior, are a royal and holy priesthood. Each member of the body of Christ is an ambassador for Christ. Using whatever gifts of the Spirit that God gives them to bring people to a knowledge of God by introducing them to His Son, who is the image of the invisible God (Col 1:15). Unlike the priests of the old covenant who stood as a type of Christ, mediating if you will between humanity and God, new covenant believers introduce the world to the one and only true mediator between man and God. The literal priesthood of the old covenant has been abolished by Christ in favor of the spiritual priesthood of the new covenant.

The old covenant believer was dependent upon a literal human being and place to receive forgiveness of sins. The new covenant believer however, after being introduced to the Lord Jesus Christ our High Priest who ever liveth to intercede for us, can receive forgiveness for sins at any time and in any place ( Jn 4: 19-24). The new covenant believer has no need for a human go between, but has been given direct access to the throne of God in and through the ministration of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Each believer may now come boldly before the throne of God with their prayers and confessions, entreating the mercies of our loving God. This is among the most precious promises of the new testament scriptures.

Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Heb 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. 26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; 27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

The Lord Jesus Christ came to earth and became one of us, so that we could each have a close and personal relationship with Him and his Father in heaven. The Devil has ever sought to separate humanity from God. With the cooperation of our first parents he succeeded in the garden. Ever since, God has been seeking to bring us back, and Satan has been seeking to keep us apart. Jesus came to draw all humanity to the Father. Through His intercession humanity has been given the opportunity of a direct personal relationship with the Father, which none can hinder save ourselves.

Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

As is the habit of the church of Rome, putting the literal, in the place of the spiritual, she has destroyed the intimacy which God intended between Himself and his followers. The church of Rome has established a literal priesthood upon which her people are dependent for the forgiveness of their sins. Her adherents are required to confess their sins to their priest that he might grant them God's forgiveness. Again, the church of Rome separates its adherents from God by substituting Christ’s Priestly ministry with its own literal one. This again also, establishes itself in a position of authority over all who accept her dogmas. What can be more intimate than asking for, and receiving forgiveness from a loved one? Even this is denied those who accept the intercession of Rome.

Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. 7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. 8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, 16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. 19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; 21 And having an high priest over the house of God; 22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Why would anyone who has direct access to the throne of God, and an invitation from God himself to go there whenever they need to, seek intercession from another sinful and fallible human being. Jesus Christ is our High Priest. By His blood we may all enter in through the veil into the holiest, where Christ ever liveth to make intercession for us. This was accomplished through his flesh, verse 20. His flesh was our flesh, He became one of us, so we could enter into the holiest and have direct access to the throne of God. We no longer need anyone between us and God the Father. Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father but through Him (Joh 14:6). He presented his body a living sacrifice unto God that we might be able to follow in his footsteps, because His body was our body, and His flesh was our flesh.

The primary role of the priesthood during the old covenant was to officiate the sacrifice. This role has been taken from humanity and established by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ the true Sacrifice. The sacrifice of the new covenant believer is clearly pointed out by the Apostle Paul.

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Christ has prepared the way, that we may give our own selves as living and holy sacrifices unto God. This is our spiritual service of worship in the new covenant. These things Christ has accomplished by becoming one of us. Now, what person can officiate between the individual and God, when all have been given the power to present themselves directly to God as a living and holy sacrifice. This is what has been granted to all through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. He has established a close and personal relationship with God for each and every individual who cares to accept such. There is no need for the priesthood of the church of Rome or any other than that of Christ Himself. The priesthood of the new covenant on earth is Christ’s church or body as Peter whom the Church of Rome contends was their first Pope, has taught. The ministry of which is to introduce all to Jesus Christ our High Priest through whom we all have access to the Father (Heb 8:1&2, Eph 2:11-22).

Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

If by faith, I have died with Christ, I am freed from my sin. I personally have been empowered to do this thing by faith, and so has anyone else who cares to accept it. How says the church of Rome that I need a priest, that is, another sinful human being to officiate between God and I? Why would the church of Rome nullify the grace of God? Why does she wish to take this gift away from humanity, which was given at such infinite cost? The answer is clear, she seeks power over the world that has not been granted her from God. She seeks to be in the place of God. This is the original sin of Satan himself (Isa. 14: 12-15). These things will be discussed in greater detail, in following chapters.

The setting up of a literal priesthood by the church of Rome, separates those who believe her from their Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, the true High Priest of the new covenant. As always, it establishes her in a position of authority between man and God over all that submit to her usurped authority. This is the true nature of the church of Rome. Her dogmas serve the purpose of separating humanity from their God, and only hope of salvation. All this she does, while claiming to be the one and only original church of Christ on earth. Supplanting the true church of Christ, while separating humanity from their God with her dogmas which cause interference between Christ and His chosen.

You have posted why you hate the Catholic Church, but you do not say why you love God, and how you will serve Him. The major point of your posts seems to be that a person knows of Jesus, then is guaranteed heaven. Ok, how does that work out here on Earth?
I have been in numerous Protestant congregations and several denominations. The overwhelming condition is that they have to be seeker friendly and walk on egg shells around each other. If one says sin is a bad idea, another cries legalism.
Development is centered around popularity and political power. This results in over emphasis on music, and flashy displays of virtue signaling. It seems everyone wants to be told how good they are and their place in heaven is secure
If it is pointed out that they have an issue with sin, they will complain of being judged, and sermons are given to be great sweeping stories but very little call to holiness. I can only think of the warnings to Laodicea. They say they are rich, well fed, and have need of nothing, but they do not realize that they are miserable blind poor and naked. This is not right
A Christian is supposed to be in self denial, poor in spirit and practicing virtue. How does your congregation convict people of sin, once they are members? It’s easy to tell an unbeliever that they are guilty of sin and need a savior. What do you do when your members behave worse than unbelievers and refuse conviction because they are “saved” and cannot be judged?
Do you worship a god without justice?
How does it work in the real world, not the fantasy world of future heaven?

 

[stevevw]

I am speaking as a lapsed Catholic though with Catholic leanings. I think coming from todays thinking about what is evil for the CC it would have to be the percieved disregard for taking on board the broader idea that all are equal in Christ.

Placing a hierarchy and roles over the church with an authority that is above humans. This is seen in the gradual diversion of the protestants developing a more progressive position as opposed to tradition.

Of course there is the usual charges of corruption and perversions of power and the abuses that have resulted. But that charge stands up and I don't think the CC denies this.

I think its more an ideological difference in worldviews which leads to protestants believing the CC is cruel, exclusive and out of step with modern ideas about what represents Christs teachings for the church.

That causes each side to have a dynamically opposed worldviews to the point that they will see certain ideas about how things should be ordered as evil. Not that they are evil but rather a belief based on certain assumptions about order and even reality itself that percieves this as evil or outdated or fixed in a certain way that conflicts with that worldview.

This applies to both sides in that they will find some way that their position is evil, or exclusionary, or too liberal or rigid ect.

Which sort of reflects politics nowadays where each side can see the complete opposite ideologically and believe the other side is doing something gravely wrong to the point it will destroy democracy. Or in the case of Christs truth for His church split the church and cause great harm.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

I am speaking as a lapsed Catholic though with Catholic leanings. I think coming from todays thinking about what is evil for the CC it would have to be the percieved disregard for taking on board the broader idea that all are equal in Christ.

Placing a hierarchy and roles over the church with an authority that is above humans. This is seen in the gradual diversion of the protestants developing a more progressive position as opposed to tradition.

Of course there is the usual charges of corruption and perversions of power and the abuses that have resulted. But that charge stands up and I don't think the CC denies this.

I think its more an ideological difference in worldviews which leads to protestants believing the CC is cruel, exclusive and out of step with modern ideas about what represents Christs teachings for the church.

That causes each side to have a dynamically opposed worldviews to the point that they will see certain ideas about how things should be ordered as evil. Not that they are evil but rather a belief based on certain assumptions about order and even reality itself that percieves this as evil or outdated or fixed in a certain way that conflicts with that worldview.

This applies to both sides in that they will find some way that their position is evil, or exclusionary, or too liberal or rigid ect.

Which sort of reflects politics nowadays where each side can see the complete opposite ideologically and believe the other side is doing something gravely wrong to the point it will destroy democracy. Or in the case of Christs truth for His church split the church and cause great harm.

You summed up the objections very well. It is easy to see why we have the results that we do today.
All of it can be shown that people want to be in control of God, both inside and outside the Church, instead of obeying Christ’s command. If any one come after me, let him deny his very self, take up his cross and begin to follow in my footsteps.
The two errors that are made are that everyone is equal, and we can take God on our own terms. Both are wrong, as scripture clearly teaches, but men have perverted.
Scripture says specifically 1 Cor 12, and Ephesians 4 teaches we have different gifts and we are many members but one body. Satan tries to induce jealousy and strife in the body by arguing that all should be the same, when God specifically says we are not
Our human nature does not want anyone greater than us, so over the last 500 years Church hierarchy has been cast in a bad light.
What is failed to be noted is that Christ taught us that the greatest among us will be our servants.
Satan denies this and says that anyone in a hierarchal position is arrogant and needs to be brought down. We see this carrying over into politics where communism is given preferred status because it sounds good to us, but has had very devastating results for mankind.
The Old Covenant was made with one people, Israel. There were bad kings and good kings and corruption in the ranks, but God said He would give Jesus the throne of his father David forever.
That means that the Old Covenant that was given to Israel was changed to the New Covenant given to the Church of Jesus Christ
The people of Israel objected to the corruption of their king, and 10 tribes split from the nation of Israel. It did not go well for them. Even Judah was taken captive by the Babylonians for breaking the covenant but God brought them back intact. Jesus mentions this when He speaks to the Samarian woman at the well. He told her that she worships what she does not understand, but salvation is of the Jews.
The Protestant objections scream of the corruption of the Catholic Church and say she must be abandoned and reformed. Instead of a great reformation we had a profound deformation and all like sheep have gone astray each to his own way. They say the Catholic Church is corrupt, yet they themselves cannot maintain sound doctrine.
The greatest error was the abandonment of sexual chastity in 1930 by the Anglicans and each Protestant denomination followed suit. Today we have denominations that claim the law of God from the Old Covenant must continue to be obeyed, yet they cannot take a stand on whether or not abortion is evil. (Pass your seed to Molech? No problem, just say you love Jesus and don’t worry about the evil you do.) the previous sentence is sarcastic but is essentially what is being taught in some denominations

We have the teaching of the wheat and the tares that tell us Christ’s Church will not be perfect but His teaching will endure and the gates of hell will not prevail. There is only one Church that goes back to the time of the Apostles through apostolic succession. The rest were brought about by the will of man. There is a hierarchy, but as Jesus said, the greatest among you shall be your servant

 

[stevevw]

You summed up the objections very well. It is easy to see why we have the results that we do today.
All of it can be shown that people want to be in control of God, both inside and outside the Church, instead of obeying Christ’s command. If any one come after me, let him deny his very self, take up his cross and begin to follow in my footsteps.
The two errors that are made are that everyone is equal, and we can take God on our own terms. Both are wrong, as scripture clearly teaches, but men have perverted.
Scripture says specifically 1 Cor 12, and Ephesians 4 teaches we have different gifts and we are many members but one body. Satan tries to induce jealousy and strife in the body by arguing that all should be the same, when God specifically says we are not
Our human nature does not want anyone greater than us, so over the last 500 years Church hierarchy has been cast in a bad light.
What is failed to be noted is that Christ taught us that the greatest among us will be our servants.
Satan denies this and says that anyone in a hierarchal position is arrogant and needs to be brought down. We see this carrying over into politics where communism is given preferred status because it sounds good to us, but has had very devastating results for mankind.
The Old Covenant was made with one people, Israel. There were bad kings and good kings and corruption in the ranks, but God said He would give Jesus the throne of his father David forever.
That means that the Old Covenant that was given to Israel was changed to the New Covenant given to the Church of Jesus Christ
The people of Israel objected to the corruption of their king, and 10 tribes split from the nation of Israel. It did not go well for them. Even Judah was taken captive by the Babylonians for breaking the covenant but God brought them back intact. Jesus mentions this when He speaks to the Samarian woman at the well. He told her that she worships what she does not understand, but salvation is of the Jews.
The Protestant objections scream of the corruption of the Catholic Church and say she must be abandoned and reformed. Instead of a great reformation we had a profound deformation and all like sheep have gone astray each to his own way. They say the Catholic Church is corrupt, yet they themselves cannot maintain sound doctrine.
The greatest error was the abandonment of sexual chastity in 1930 by the Anglicans and each Protestant denomination followed suit. Today we have denominations that claim the law of God from the Old Covenant must continue to be obeyed, yet they cannot take a stand on whether or not abortion is evil. (Pass your seed to Molech? No problem, just say you love Jesus and don’t worry about the evil you do.) the previous sentence is sarcastic but is essentially what is being taught in some denominations

We have the teaching of the wheat and the tares that tell us Christ’s Church will not be perfect but His teaching will endure and the gates of hell will not prevail. There is only one Church that goes back to the time of the Apostles through apostolic succession. The rest were brought about by the will of man. There is a hierarchy, but as Jesus said, the greatest among you shall be your servant

Yes and that is one thing that stands out for me in the early church was that its leaders were servant like. Most went on to be executed for staying true to Christ and not bowing to Nero or the pagan gods.

Ignatius around 107 mentions that the quieter and meeker a bishop is the more reverence he has in being Christlike. The exact opposite of how modern society would think a leader to be I think. Especially in politics.

 

[The Liturgist]

You do well not to actually quote scripture in your above defense, which would easily allow for your arguments to be picked apart.

Not really. Most of the Roman Catholic Church exists on a much more solid scriptural footing, than for example, the SDAs or Landmark Baptists.

CHRIST AND ROME​

CHAP. 2 THE FLESH AND THE BLOOD

John 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. 58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

The next spiritual truth that we will examine which has been literalized by the church of Rome, is the Eucharist. The church of Rome contends that Christ was speaking of changing the bread and wine of the above verses, into the literal body and blood of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. She also contends that true believers must partake of this literal body and blood. Of course, the only ones that can perform this transubstantiation, are the priests of the church of Rome. In this way again, the church of Rome has sought to set herself up in a position of power and authority over all those who would be true believers. Indeed, over all the world, if they wish to be saved.

If indeed, bread and wine must be transformed into the literal body and blood of Christ and only the priest's of Rome can perform this miracle, then all are dependent upon Rome for salvation. So now, Peter was handed special authority over the church of Christ, whom the Popes now represent. In this manner, a mere man has been put in between humanity and God. Now also, the priests in subjection to this man, have been given by him, the power to perform this miracle by which the true believer may partake of Christ unto salvation. Both of these claims to authority come to the church of Rome by way of making spiritual truths in the holy scriptures into literal manifestations conducted by her own hierarchy. They both place mere men between humanity and God, a thing which our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ came specifically to abolish. We will discuss this issue in more depth in following chapters.

Let us examine the spiritual truth of the above verses which is ignored by the church of Rome so as to establish herself in authority. After saying in verse fifty six, "He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him", Christ goes on in the very next verse to explain what he had just said. " 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me " Are we to suppose from the above verses, that Christ was continually changing bread and wine into the literal body and blood of his Father while here on earth, and eating him, so as to live by his Father? Of course not. We know that the Father lived within the Son through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit which he gave to his son ( Jn. 1:32 ). This is why Christ came to earth, and became one of us. So that He could dwell within the believer through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit of God. This does not happen by ingesting the literal body and blood of Christ, but by faith in the Son of God and submission to his will. Observe the following scriptures.

John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. 18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

The Father was in Christ, and Christ was in him. This was not accomplished by Christ eating the literal flesh and blood of the Father. Likewise, Christ does not live in the believer by the ingestion of his literal flesh and blood. Christ was our example in all things, as the Father was in Christ and Christ in Him, so are we to be in Christ that the Father and Son might be in us. Verse seventeen points out how this takes place. True believers are sanctified through God's truth, His word is truth. It is by the ingestion or taking in of God's word, that believers receive the Holy Spirit of God. This is a spiritual experience, not a literal one. It will however have literal effects upon one’s life, by conforming the believer into the likeness of the Father and Son, which is salvation.

Matt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Those who receive the word of God intending to make it the rule of their lives, are those whom the Holy Spirit of God will come into and use for His glory. This is how God dwells within the believer, not by eating and drinking some wine and bread that some claim to have changed into the body and blood of Christ. It requires no change of heart or mind to eat some bread, and drink some wine. On the other hand, it requires submission to God, to believe and act upon his word. This can be accomplished only by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit of God, and it unquestionably changes the heart and actions of the believer into the likeness of their Lord's. This spiritual truth is lost sight of, in the literal interpretation of Christ's words by the Church of Rome’s Eucharist and transubstantiation.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. 19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. 20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Those who love God will endeavor to keep his commandments. Only those who have made this choice, that is to allow Christ to rule in their lives, will receive the Spirit of truth. Without this Holy Spirit, it is impossible to serve God or keep his commandments. The world cannot receive the Holy Spirit, because it will not submit to the word of God. This is why only true believers can enter into the experience that Christ is referring to when he speaks of eating his flesh and drinking his blood. By making this spiritual truth into the literal mere ingestion of bread and wine, the church of Rome has set up a system and a people who have only a form of godliness, denying the power thereof.

1 Cor 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. 25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. 26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. 27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

As Paul points out in the above verses, partaking of the bread and wine is a reminder of the Lord's death on our behalf, till he comes again. This is exactly where all true believers begin and maintain their walk with God, at the foot of the cross. It is by entering into Christ's death, the full submission and surrender of self, that Christ is enabled to live within us. Accepting Christ's death for us as not only in our place but as our own, that we may walk in newness of life by the power of the Holy Spirit of God. This is what it means to eat the flesh, and drink the blood of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To be in him at his death, that he might be in us in newness of life. His life, not our own. For Christ was obedient to the Father even to the point of death, that we might die with him in order to receive power to be obedient to the Father also. You in Christ, and Christ in you, the hope of glory.

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: 27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Did you write that polemic yourself?

 

[boughtwithaprice]

Yes and that is one thing that stands out for me in the early church was that its leaders were servant like. Most went on to be executed for staying true to Christ and not bowing to Nero or the pagan gods.

Ignatius around 107 mentions that the quieter and meeker a bishop is the more reverence he has in being Christlike. The exact opposite of how modern society would think a leader to be I think. Especially in politics.

Meekness at the service of good is praiseworthy, but sloth in the face of evil purporting to be meekness is actually a promoter of evil
Jesus Himself became righteously angry at the profanation of the Temple in Jerusalem. There is a righteous anger yet not all anger is righteous

Too many times we intend to equate meekness with weakness. Meekness is not weak, but rather refined restraint. Although possessing the power to bring war, the meek keeps his sword sheathed for the greater glory of his commander. God desires obedience rather than sacrifice, and He would not be pleased if His church consisted of loose canons firing at will.
He wants well trained, strong spiritual soldiers wit the full armor of God. We help our Church leaders and serve God by obeying those placed over us and accepting their role as servant leaders. The more we obey, the less reason they have to unsheath the sword and as Christ did, whip the money changers out of the temple

Want to be meek? Study the faith and Church history to show yourself approved. The more we study the more know what God wills and how to please Him which is our useful service


Peace be with you

 

[The Liturgist]

Meekness at the service of good is praiseworthy, but sloth in the face of evil purporting to be meekness is actually a promoter of evil
Jesus Himself became righteously angry at the profanation of the Temple in Jerusalem. There is a righteous anger yet not all anger is righteous

Too many times we intend to equate meekness with weakness. Meekness is not weak, but rather refined restraint. Although possessing the power to bring war, the meek keeps his sword sheathed for the greater glory of his commander. God desires obedience rather than sacrifice, and He would not be pleased if His church consisted of loose canons firing at will.
He wants well trained, strong spiritual soldiers wit the full armor of God. We help our Church leaders and serve God by obeying those placed over us and accepting their role as servant leaders. The more we obey, the less reason they have to unsheath the sword and as Christ did, whip the money changers out of the temple

Want to be meek? Study the faith and Church history to show yourself approved. The more we study the more know what God wills and how to please Him which is our useful service


Peace be with you

Very well expressed.

 

[stevevw]

Meekness at the service of good is praiseworthy, but sloth in the face of evil purporting to be meekness is actually a promoter of evil
Jesus Himself became righteously angry at the profanation of the Temple in Jerusalem. There is a righteous anger yet not all anger is righteous

Too many times we intend to equate meekness with weakness. Meekness is not weak, but rather refined restraint. Although possessing the power to bring war, the meek keeps his sword sheathed for the greater glory of his commander. God desires obedience rather than sacrifice, and He would not be pleased if His church consisted of loose canons firing at will.

I think sacrifice is part of obedience and meekness because sometimes if not often we have to deny our desires and self will to do Gods Will. That means to some extent we are having to sacrifice a life we consider good or satisfying or self fullfilling for what we think for Gods way.

You are right that meekness does not mean weakness as in cowering to others. We still stand our ground which is with Christ. We just don't buy into the same ideas or reactions in fighting back and play the tit of tat game or try to win political points.

We just obey God and set a good Christlike example even if that means losing the battle. Because its out Christlike example for which is pure and cannot be faulted that will expose evil and turn people to God in the end.

He wants well trained, strong spiritual soldiers wit the full armor of God. We help our Church leaders and serve God by obeying those placed over us and accepting their role as servant leaders. The more we obey, the less reason they have to unsheath the sword and as Christ did, whip the money changers out of the temple

Also when we obey God we are acting as good examples and not buying into the fighting over who is right. Our Christlike example does all the talking and will expose the untruths and evil without saying a word.

Or when we do speak it will be respected because we have shown that we live what we say and no one can hold any charge against us for being a hypocrit or acting badly.

Want to be meek? Study the faith and Church history to show yourself approved. The more we study the more know what God wills and how to please Him which is our useful service

Peace be with you

I agree and I also think the more we are obedient and and submit to God in faith as Christ did the more we will know God and be able to decern His Word and Christs truth. In addition the more we are empowered.

God bless

 

[Amo2]

Not really. Most of the Roman Catholic Church exists on a much more solid scriptural footing, than for example, the SDAs or Landmark Baptists.

Here we are. Nothing stopping you from proving such, is there? Or do you suppose your word is final, for all?

Did you write that polemic yourself?

Yes. I always do my best to give references when I quote others.