Is it important for Children to be safe and for justice to be served?

[rambot]

I think that ensuring reports of child sexual abuse are brought to appropriate legal authorities makes society safer for children period.

End of story; regardless of circumstance (note that mental health experts are all REQUIRED by law to report these things).

And because I believe that, I believe priests should be submitting that information.

DOJ sues Washington state over law requiring clergy to report possible child abuse

If you are concerned about the safety of children but believe priests shouldn't have to report these instances, how do you arrive at the conclusion that the safety of children is secondary to a sexual predator freedoms?

Or, I guess, how does one hold such diametrically opposed ideas in one's head?

 

[RileyG]

confessions are anonymous, and someone who is a predator isn’t going to confess anyway, that’s counterproductive. That bill is just an attack on the faithful.

 

[Fantine]

Churches require sex abuse awareness training. I subbed in Catholic schools a little bit. Had a background check. Attended classes with followup online modules.
But hearing it in confession is different from observing worrisome signs.

 

[RileyG]

Churches require sex abuse awareness training. I subbed in Catholic schools a little bit. Had a background check. Attended classes with followup online modules.
But hearing it in confession is different from observing worrisome signs.

exactly!

 

[Always in His Presence]

I think that ensuring reports of child sexual abuse are brought to appropriate legal authorities makes society safer for children period.

End of story; regardless of circumstance (note that mental health experts are all REQUIRED by law to report these things).

And because I believe that, I believe priests should be submitting that information.

DOJ sues Washington state over law requiring clergy to report possible child abuse

If you are concerned about the safety of children but believe priests shouldn't have to report these instances, how do you arrive at the conclusion that the safety of children is secondary to a sexual predator freedoms?

Or, I guess, how does one hold such diametrically opposed ideas in one's head?

I support mandatory reporting. I fall into the category of a mandatory reporter. It's a shame that the Roman Catholic Church is having to reap what it has sown for hundreds of years - they blatantly failed to protect the children. That is a major issue.

What is more important? The rights of the abuser or the victim?

 

[Desk trauma]

confessions are anonymous, and someone who is a predator isn’t going to confess anyway, that’s counterproductive. That bill is just an attack on the faithful.

Holding them to the same standards as a school guidance counselor is an attack on the faithful how?

 

[RileyG]

Holding them to the same standards as a school guidance counselor is an attack on the faithful how?

Confessions are anonymous. They don’t know who is confessing if it’s behind a screen. Period.

 

[Desk trauma]

Confessions are anonymous. They don’t know who is confessing if it’s behind a screen. Period.

Lofty standards I know, can’t be expecting much from people entrusted with the eternal wellbeing of others souls with a direct line to an all powerful deity. Leave that to the secular rabble.

 

[RileyG]

Lofty standards I know, can’t be expecting much from people entrusted with the eternal wellbeing of others souls with a direct line to an all powerful deity. Leave that to the secular rabble.

Again, how would they know who confesses it? It’s a moot point.

 

[Desk trauma]

Again, how would they know who confesses it? It’s a moot point.

It’s both a moot point and an attack one the faithful?

 

[RileyG]

It’s both a moot point and an attack one the faithful?

They have no way of knowing who it is if it’s anonymous was my point. Maybe I was unclear. Does that also include the Orthodox Church, Lutheran and Anglian minister who also hear confessions? The seal is also absolute.

 

[rambot]

I support mandatory reporting. I fall into the category of a mandatory reporter. It's a shame that the Roman Catholic Church is having to reap what it has sown for hundreds of years - they blatantly failed to protect the children. That is a major issue.

What is more important? The rights of the abuser or the victim?

It's always nice to agree with someone with whom I seem to disagree with often.

 

[rambot]

They have no way of knowing who it is if it’s anonymous was my point. Maybe I was unclear. Does that also include the Orthodox Church, Lutheran and Anglian minister who also hear confessions? The seal is also absolute.

Ro be clear IMHO it would refer to anyone, regardless of denomination or faith.

 

[jmldn2]

Under no circumstances should a known child predator be kept secret from authorities. I do not care who knows; church, person(s) or what. God will NOT hold anyone guiltless if they know and do not report for such atrocities against the innocent children.

 

[RileyG]

Ro be clear IMHO it would refer to anyone, regardless of denomination or faith.

If it goes to the Supreme Court, it won’t pass. Just saying….

 

[Maria Billingsley]

confessions are anonymous, and someone who is a predator isn’t going to confess anyway, that’s counterproductive. That bill is just an attack on the faithful.

That is not necessarily true. Clergy confess to each other . This is why the Bishops are against it. Let us reason please.

 

[Paidiske]

As someone who is a priest who hears confessions, and operates under laws which require me to disclose child sexual abuse, it's pretty much a non-issue, because the people who do this don't take it to confession. That's what I've learned from people who are expert in working with perpetrators. They so dissociate what they do from any sense of moral culpability that they don't feel the need to confess.

That said, even if someone were to do so, it is relatively easy to manage. You make turning themselves in part of the process of repentance, and withhold absolution until they've done so.

What is much more pastorally difficult is when the disclosure comes from the person who has been abused (who do often feel guilt and shame and can attempt to resolve that through confession). They may not be ready to face all that comes with formal reporting, but putting this kind of law in place dissuades them from seeking help. I know, in my own experience, that when I've explained to someone who's been abused, that if they keep talking to me I will be required to report what they say, they simply shut down and the conversation ends. And I'm not sure that's helpful to anyone.

I understand the desire to say that there is no dark hole, no silent corner in which we will shelter paedophiles. But having lived with the result, I think this kind of legislation is a blunt instrument that often doesn't do what people hope it will, and has unintended harmful consequences.

 

[RileyG]

That is not necessarily true. Clergy confess to each other . This is why the Bishops are against it. Let us reason please.

Yes, i’m aware of it.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I think that ensuring reports of child sexual abuse are brought to appropriate legal authorities makes society safer for children period.

End of story; regardless of circumstance (note that mental health experts are all REQUIRED by law to report these things).

And because I believe that, I believe priests should be submitting that information.

DOJ sues Washington state over law requiring clergy to report possible child abuse

If you are concerned about the safety of children but believe priests shouldn't have to report these instances, how do you arrive at the conclusion that the safety of children is secondary to a sexual predator freedoms?

Or, I guess, how does one hold such diametrically opposed ideas in one's head?

I'm going to set my atheism aside on this one and try to be impartial

(full disclosure, I'm still a firm believer in the idea that the mafia problem would've been rooted out much earlier had catholic priests not had legally protected confidentiality)


There are a few ways to look at it...

The religious freedom aspect:
The filing states that because “punishment for directly violating the sacramental seal of Confession is excommunication ... a more direct burden on the exercise of religion would be difficult to imagine.” (The local archbishop has already threatened to excommunicate any priest who follows the law and violates the confessional.)

The Equal protection aspect:
If a person confided in me about something horrible they did, I - as a private citizen - don't have a legal obligation to report it. I personally would, but there are no laws that would force me to do it, and no penalties if I didn't.

In a secular society (which we are), Priests are private citizens as they don't hold any officially recognized government power (the government is supposed to be 'agnostic' (no pun intended) on such matters. The government can't really impose an elevated duty to report based on a position of moral authority that they're not supposed to be officially recognizing in the first place.


...but like I said, for my own personal viewpoint, if someone told me they touched kids, not only would I be calling the authorities immediately, I would be physically detaining them until the cops got there, but I was just trying to "steelman" the opposing viewpoint on that.

 

[Hans Blaster]

If it goes to the Supreme Court, it won’t pass. Just saying….

The court is majority catholic.