California Bill Would Prohibit ICE Officers From Wearing Masks in the State

[public hermit]

Pelosi said we need them to pick the crops. They are being exploited.

Who is Pelosi? When the powerful cite the weak in defense of whatever they are doing, they are saying nothing.

 

[BCP1928]

Yeah but they live 20 of them in a 2 bedroom house or apartment and pay ridiculous rent.
These concerned people could help them out

Sure. Give them H visas, their pay will increase and they will find better digs. They won't be "taking American jobs," either, they'll be competing for them in the same labor market as everyone else.

You seem to have confused "Don't depart them, they are vital to the economy" with "Allow them to remain illegally so they can be exploited."

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Just a random tip and some foreign looking doods and that's good enough for the law? For you?

It's not quite as "random" as you're making it out to be.

If one's sole job was being tasked with identifying undocumented people and apprehending them for deportation, and their options of venue to target were:
The group of Mexican guys, who speak little-to-no English, hanging out in front of the Home Depot or a packing plant that's had dozens of infractions/violations in the past?
vs.
The Hulu or Activision Headquarters?

...gee, which one is likely a better place to start the search?

That's the point. Not the way to build a free society.

And yet, die-hard conservatives have a problem with the IRS, but not ICE...and staunch progressives have a problem with ICE, but not the IRS.

Weird...

Actually, not all that weird, we already know the answer...

People are more receptive to forms of authoritarianism that target the groups that they see as causing harm.

The IRS chases rich people (who the progressives see as harming the country)
ICE chases undocumented individuals (who the staunch conservatives see as harming the country)

 

[BPPLEE]

And then they send their money back to their families. My goodness, horrible people with values, we don't need them. Lol

I didn't say anything bad about them, I'm referring to the fact that they are taken advantage of.

 

[BPPLEE]

Sure. Give them H visas, their pay will increase and they will find better digs. They won't be "taking American jobs," either, they'll be competing for them in the same labor market as everyone else.

You seem to have confused "Don't depart them, they are vital to the economy" with "Allow them to remain illegally so they can be exploited."

They're only vital when they work cheaper than anyone else.

 

[BPPLEE]

Sub-par, or sub-legal?

Both

 

[public hermit]

I didn't say anything bad about them, I'm referring to the fact that they are taken advantage of.

Then we are in agreement, amigo.

 

[Valletta]

People are more receptive to forms of authoritarianism that target the groups that they see as causing harm.

The IRS chases rich people (who the progressives see as harming the country)
ICE chases undocumented individuals (who the staunch conservatives see as harming the country)

The IRS has a history of going after conservative groups, and organization (and not the only government organization) used as a political tool by the establishment. ICE only came into focus because they are the enforcement group that is tasked to uphold the immigration and border laws. Many Democrats, particularly the leadership, supported the violation of our border laws.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

The IRS has a history of going after conservative groups, and organization (and not the only government organization) used as a political tool by the establishment.

True, but in in the interest of fairness, ICE has been used as a political tool as well.

I'll willing to call balls and strikes here. I'm not going to pretend there isn't an element of political pandering happening with the current situation

 

[BCP1928]

They're only vital when they work cheaper than anyone else.

That's the business view of it. It won't help you to project it onto a Democratic politician.

 

[BPPLEE]

That's the business view of it. It won't help you to project it onto a Democratic politician.

That leaves you in a dilemma, if you crack down on businesses you leave them nowhere to work

 

[BCP1928]

True, but in in the interest of fairness, ICE has been used as a political tool as well.

I'll willing to call balls and strikes here. I'm not going to pretend there isn't an element of political pandering happening with the current situation

Yeah, OK, but there is a distinct smell of greasepaint about the whole thing. Why publically arrest the wife of a serving Marine, who became illegal on a technicality when a child and prevent her from attending a hearing that would rectify the situation? What was the point?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

That's the business view of it. It won't help you to project it onto a Democratic politician.

That's the economic view in general (objectively speaking)

If there were a law (and some enforcement mechanism) dictating that undocumented immigrants had to be paid the minimum wage, there would be no advantage to them doing the job over bona fide citizens.

 

[BCP1928]

That leaves you in a dilemma, if you crack down on businesses you leave them nowhere to work

That's right. And if they are really vital they can be given H visas like I said, and they will still have a place to work,

 

[BCP1928]

That's the economic view in general (objectively speaking)

If there were a law (and some enforcement mechanism) dictating that undocumented immigrants had to be paid the minimum wage, there would be no advantage to them doing the job over bona fide citizens.

That's why business prefers illegal aliens. If their work is truly vital their situation can be regularized. If not they can go home. Too bad about the cheap labor.

 

[BCP1928]

That's the economic view in general (objectively speaking)

If there were a law (and some enforcement mechanism) dictating that undocumented immigrants had to be paid the minimum wage, there would be no advantage to them doing the job over bona fide citizens.

Yes, it's called an H visa.

 

[Hans Blaster]

It's not quite as "random" as you're making it out to be.

If one's sole job was being tasked with identifying undocumented people and apprehending them for deportation, and their options of venue to target were:
The group of Mexican guys, who speak little-to-no English, hanging out in front of the Home Depot or a packing plant that's had dozens of infractions/violations in the past?

There are Home Depots with dozens of infractions? (I think the immigration court tactics are vile, but at least they know that someone with a fresh "illegal" status will be there and who they are.)

vs.
The Hulu or Activision Headquarters?

...gee, which one is likely a better place to start the search?

I have no idea what kind of neighborhood Hulu is located in. Probably one of those janky Canadian squatter neighborhoods. As for Activision, I don't think the market for 2600 cartridges is that strong any more.

And yet, die-hard conservatives have a problem with the IRS, but not ICE...and staunch progressives have a problem with ICE, but not the IRS.

Weird...

I didn't say I liked these apparently legal tactics the IRS uses.

Actually, not all that weird, we already know the answer...

People are more receptive to forms of authoritarianism that target the groups that they see as causing harm.

The IRS chases rich people (who the progressives see as harming the country)
ICE chases undocumented individuals (who the staunch conservatives see as harming the country)

 

[Hans Blaster]

Both

An employer who is paying sub-legal wages is *not* what I was talking about.

 

[Valletta]

Yeah, OK, but there is a distinct smell of greasepaint about the whole thing. Why publically arrest the wife of a serving Marine, who became illegal on a technicality when a child and prevent her from attending a hearing that would rectify the situation? What was the point?

There was a court order, law enforcement simply followed the court order. That's the way the legal system works. A judge can intervene and rescind the order, if it is just a technicality why hasn't any court set her free?

 

[BCP1928]

There was a court order, law enforcement simply followed the court order. That's the way the legal system works.

It would, if she wasn't in ICE custody.

A judge can intervene and rescind the order, if it is just a technicality why hasn't any court set her free?

The court agreed to giving her a green card that day. She needed one more hearing when the paperwork was ready but ICE heard about the hearing date and picked her up instead. They just wanted to send a message to the Marines in case they have to work with them again.