BREAKING: 'Targeted Terror Attack' Hits Boulder, Colorado, During Pro-Israel Gathering

[Perpetual Student]

How did they make it over Trump's wall?

Quantum tunneling perhaps.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Thats almost seems the same thing as hate for another group by lumping them into stereotypes to demean them. I am sure most conservatives are not hateful. Conservative is almost mainstream and has been for a long time. Its just being more traditional and maintaining orthodoxy. Theres a diverse range of conservatives.

Steve, we don't need to rely on stereotypes or worry about all of them out there. We can see it right here on this board in front of our eyes. What you were replying to was this:

"I don't know, conservative Christians seem to have no trouble hating."

and it is clearly true. If there was some inhibition that being a conservative Christian to hating things, then threads would be much different around here. The statement was not "conservative Christians are hateful". It does not rely on broad characterizations or stereotypes, just observations of behaviors here and elsewhere. (It also doesn't claim that only conservative Christians can hate things, either.)

 

[Hans Blaster]

Quantum tunneling perhaps.

They really should have used an infinite potential depth.

 

[stevevw]

That's an orthodox conservative Christian belief in this country. I don't know what the proof texts are, I just threw it in as an example of the kind of thing you are talking about.

Theres no proof text full stop.

How about opposition to any kind of gun control? Support for the death penalty? Besides the sex stuff and illegal aliens, those are all hot-button issues for biblical Christians

But thats not necessarily conservative. Rather its contextual to the US who happen to have a history of the gun regardless of religion. The same conservatives in say my nation Australa guns are not even on the radar. In fact conservatives are anti gun. Most people are anti gun and if they are pro gun its because they are farmers not conservative Christians.

Your stereotyping Christians. I mean what is wrong with supporting guns if every second person has a gun and you need one for protection. What about the non Christians who mostly have guns and actually use them to kill. Or democrates who pretend they don't support guns but secretly do by keeping one in the house for protection.

Whats wrong with supporting the death penalty. You seem to be making out that conservative positions are somehow evil. I think the death penalty has had widespread support throughout history to varying degrees. How about the opposite, those who are soft on crime and then allow killers to kill again and again.

 

[stevevw]

Steve, we don't need to rely on stereotypes or worry about all of them out there. We can see it right here on this board in front of our eyes. What you were replying to was this:

"I don't know, conservative Christians seem to have no trouble hating."

and it is clearly true.

The point is its not true for all so its a stereotype. You just acknowledged this by using this thread as your measure for conservative Christians which is not representative.

Plus the idea of 'hating' is a subjective determination. Some if not many think anyone who disagrees with say deportating illegals is a hater. Heck just saying you support traditional marriage is now deemed hate.

If there was some inhibition that being a conservative Christian to hating things, then threads would be much different around here. The statement was not "conservative Christians are hateful". It does not rely on broad characterizations or stereotypes, just observations of behaviors here and elsewhere. (It also doesn't claim that only conservative Christians can hate things, either.)

But here or elsewhere is not a true reflection of the broad range of beliefs out there. Thats the point. Your taking a small sample and making it the whole. But your also using your own subjective beliefs about what is classed as hate which may be biased itself by hate of conservatives lol.

I am sure I can find just as much hate from those attacking conservatives. I mean look at the hate from the Dems even to the point of putting a target on trump. Labling all supporters Nazis ect. Plots to decriminate against conservatives. It was the same mentality as those who hate Jews.

In fact it was this ideology that refused to condemn the antisemetism even cultivating it in universities and institutions.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Theres no proof text full stop.

But thats not necessarily conservative. Rather its contextual to the US who happen to have a history of the gun regardless of religion. The same conservatives in say my nation Australa guns are not even on the radar. In fact conservatives are anti gun. Most people are anti gun and if they are pro gun its because they are farmers not conservative Christians.

Your stereotyping Christians. I mean what is wrong with supporting guns if every second person has a gun and you need one for protection. What about the non Christians who mostly have guns and actually use them to kill. Or democrates who pretend they don't support guns but secretly do by keeping one in the house for protection.

Whats wrong with supporting the death penalty. You seem to be making out that conservative positions are somehow evil. I think the death penalty has had widespread support throughout history to varying degrees. How about the opposite, those who are soft on crime and then allow killers to kill again and again.

Why are you surprised that an American poster commenting in a thread about an event in the USA would make reference to the attitudes, opinions, etc. of American conservative Christians and not be thinking about whatever it is they believe in your country, particularly with the phrase "in this country" in the post?

 

[Hans Blaster]

The point is its not true for all so its a stereotype. Plus the idea of 'hating' is a subjective determination. Some if not many think anyone who disagrees with say deportating illegals is a hater. Heck just saying you support traditional marriage is now deemed hate.

We shouldn't even have a conversation that requires a careful reading on your part of what was written.

But here or elsewhere is not a true reflection of the broad range of beliefs out there. Thats the point. Your taking a small sample and making it the whole. But your also using your own subjective beliefs about what is classed as hate which may be biased itself by hate of conservatives lol.

I am sure I can find just as much hate from those attacking conservatives. I mean look at the hate from the Dems even to the point of putting a target on trump. Labling all supporters Nazis ect. Plots to decriminate against conservatives. It was the same mentality as those who hate Jews.

Let's make this clear: saying there are examples of hateful behavior from conservative Christians doesn't mean it is all conservative Christians, or all American conservative Christians, or all conservative Chrsitians on this board. Quit trying to inflate it to be so.

In fact it was this ideology that refused to condemn the antisemetism even cultivating it in universities and institutions.

 

[stevevw]

Why are you surprised that an American poster commenting in a thread about an event in the USA would make reference to the attitudes, opinions, etc. of American conservative Christians and not be thinking about whatever it is they believe in your country, particularly with the phrase "in this country" in the post?

Yeah sure the comment was not directed at me. Theres a history of it lol. The poster came into an Aussie making a comment and directed it at me considering that its been implied in the past I am sympathetic to conservatives in the US because they happen to also align with conservative Aussies.

 

[stevevw]

We shouldn't even have a conversation that requires a careful reading on your part of what was written.

I read it carefully. Issues like climate denial, gun support and deporting illegals were hot button issues for bible believing Christians. It could not be clearer. This was directed at bible believing Christians.

Let's make this clear: saying there are examples of hateful behavior from conservative Christians doesn't mean it is all conservative Christians, or all American conservative Christians, or all conservative Chrsitians on this board. Quit trying to inflate it to be so.

Hum really, it seems to be that is exactly what is happening. Stop pretending its not. When someone points out the self percieved wrongs of others especially in the current political climate of identity politics. They are not just making a comment. They are immercing that in their political ideology for the simple fact that they are subjectively percieving that the issues conservative support is hateful.

Supporting the deportation of illegals is not hateful. Its a reasonable policy that can protect society from chaos being imported from nations and peoples that don't share our way of life. So its begging the question that its hateful in the first place.

I gave the example of how all Trump supporters were constantly narrated as Nazis and hateful bigots. Like Biden said Trump supporters are garbage. That was the narrative. People being kicked out for simply wearing a MAGA hat, being descriminated against for simply supporting Trump or being a conservative.

There is usually a radical arm of each party who promote extremes. But this is not representative of even conservative Christians in the US. But some have a track record of conflating the extreme onto the middle.

 

[Hans Blaster]

I read it carefully. Issues like climate denial, gun support and deporting illegals were hot button issues for bible believing Christians. It could not be clearer. This was directed at bible believing Christians.

This would be a lot easier to understand if you didn't confuse yourself with an American all the time. You are looking for a condemnation of yourself in the statements that wasn't there.

Hum really, it seems to be that is exactly what is happening. Stop pretending its not. When someone points out the self percieved wrongs of others especially in the current political climate of identity politics. They are not just making a comment. They are immercing that in their political ideology for the simple fact that they are subjectively percieving that the issues conservative support is hateful.

Supporting the deportation of illegals is not hateful. Its a reasonable policy that can protect society from chaos being imported from nations and peoples that don't share our way of life. So its begging the question that its hateful in the first place.

I gave the example of how all Trump supporters were constantly narrated as Nazis and hateful bigots. Like Biden said Trump supporters are garbage. That was the narrative. People being kicked out for simply wearing a MAGA hat, being descriminated against for simply supporting Trump or being a conservative.

There is usually a radical arm of each party who promote extremes. But this is not representative of even conservative Christians in the US. But some have a track record of conflating the extreme onto the middle.

Sigh.

 

[BCP1928]

Theres no proof text full stop.

I'll have to find them for you, they've been posted on CF before.

But thats not necessarily conservative. Rather its contextual to the US who happen to have a history of the gun regardless of religion. The same conservatives in say my nation Australa guns are not even on the radar. In fact conservatives are anti gun. Most people are anti gun and if they are pro gun its because they are farmers not conservative Christians.

Your stereotyping Christians. I mean what is wrong with supporting guns if every second person has a gun and you need one for protection. What about the non Christians who mostly have guns and actually use them to kill. Or democrates who pretend they don't support guns but secretly do by keeping one in the house for protection..

Wanting some form of gun control is not a problem for law-abiding gun owners. It's not a conspiracy to disarm Real True Christian Patriots.

Whats wrong with supporting the death penalty. You seem to be making out that conservative positions are somehow evil

Many of them are and it pains me to see them being promoted in Christ's name.

. I think the death penalty has had widespread support throughout history to varying degrees. How about the opposite, those who are soft on crime and then allow killers to kill again and again.

Like the Catholic Church (which opposes the death penalty) for instance?

 

[BCP1928]

Yeah sure the comment was not directed at me. Theres a history of it lol. The poster came into an Aussie making a comment and directed it at me considering that its been implied in the past I am sympathetic to conservatives in the US because they happen to also align with conservative Aussies.

The general impression you give here is that you have fallen hook line and sinker for American right-wing propaganda.

 

[BCP1928]

I read it carefully. Issues like climate denial, gun support and deporting illegals were hot button issues for bible believing Christians. It could not be clearer. This was directed at bible believing Christians.

Conservative Bible-believing Christians who take the postions indicated.

Hum really, it seems to be that is exactly what is happening. Stop pretending its not. When someone points out the self percieved wrongs of others especially in the current political climate of identity politics. They are not just making a comment. They are immercing that in their political ideology for the simple fact that they are subjectively percieving that the issues conservative support is hateful.

Supporting the deportation of illegals is not hateful.

No, it is not and many people in this country support the idea. They do not necessarily support the way that it is being done.

Its a reasonable policy that can protect society from chaos being imported from nations and peoples that don't share our way of life.

I don't share your way of life. Good thing I was born here.

So its begging the question that its hateful in the first place.

I gave the example of how all Trump supporters were constantly narrated as Nazis and hateful bigots. Like Biden said Trump supporters are garbage. That was the narrative. People being kicked out for simply wearing a MAGA hat, being descriminated against for simply supporting Trump or being a conservative.

How about being discriminated against for being a woman. a person of color, a refugee, an LGBT. Would you like that any better?

There is usually a radical arm of each party who promote extremes. But this is not representative of even conservative Christians in the US. But some have a track record of conflating the extreme onto the middle.

It certainly is representative of about a quarter of the US population.

 

[DaisyDay]

Whats wrong with supporting the death penalty. You seem to be making out that conservative positions are somehow evil. I think the death penalty has had widespread support throughout history to varying degrees.

That's true but remember that torture and slavery have also had widespread support as shown by practice,

How about the opposite, those who are soft on crime and then allow killers to kill again and again.

We Americans imprison our citizens at far greater amounts than almost any other country. I think El Salvador is worse.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

The president ranked last has caused more catastrophes in 4 months than the aggregate mistakes of all the presidents in my lifetime combined. It is impossible to quantify exactly how disastrous his presidency is.

Makes no sense...first you claim he "caused more catastrophes in 4 months than the aggregate mistakes of all the presidents in my lifetime combined." Then you say "It is impossible to quantify exactly how disastrous his presidency is."

 

[stevevw]

This would be a lot easier to understand if you didn't confuse yourself with an American all the time. You are looking for a condemnation of yourself in the statements that wasn't there.

Sigh.

You would be better to understand that we Aussies relate very much to what is happening in the US. But also in other nations. Politics is basicially divided into liberals and conservatives. You can call it different names but basically its conservatives as opposed to liberal progressives.

So I understand very much when someone makes a swipe at conservatives. Its completely different to radical Islamists who commit terror. But conservatives are being likened to these radicals. That is what was implied. So double sigh lol.

 

[stevevw]

I'll have to find them for you, they've been posted on CF before.

You won't find them because there is no biblical basis. If you do then they have misquoted or misinterpeted the bible. I mean it can be logically inferred that God wants people to look after the planet. But theres no text stating that Christians must then take a particular political position.

Theres no biblical basis that says Christians must own guns and in fact probably more text that implies that guns are wrong generally. So I cannot think of any verse that could be used without twisting the interpretation.

Wanting some form of gun control is not a problem for law-abiding gun owners. It's not a conspiracy to disarm Real True Christian Patriots.

Thats right because these so called patriots are radicalised themselves. Their ideology obscures their sight and blinds them to Gods word. Its more political but also cultural because the US has a long history of the gun. More than most cultures from what I have seem.

Thats not religious. Thats culture specific to the US. So attributing this to conservative Christians is a narrow view that overlooks the long cultural history of the gun in the US psyche.

Many of them are and it pains me to see them being promoted in Christ's name.

Well its an easy one to disprove by Christs teachings. So like other radicals they are inconsistent, hypocritical and defeat themselves.

Like the Catholic Church (which opposes the death penalty) for instance?

Thats a different thing though. It can be argued that God permits death for certain evil. Even non Christians see the logic in this. But if people chose mercy there is also nothing wrong with that. It doesn't have to be a one way or the other and both are permitted depending on the situation I think.

Afterall at the end of the day all sinners will face the death penalty. Christ said it is better for a person to tie rocks to themselves and throw themselves into the sea if they lead chidlren astray. It is better that someone lose their eye or limb if it cause them to lose salvation than the entire soul be condemned to hell.

Its more that some use this like a sledge hammer to take their hate out on others thats the prblem. But we can easily identify the radical ideology by its extremes one way or the other without any consideration of context and trace the cultural aspects or ideology that fuels this ie usually a certain demographics ie male, from Texas lol.

 

[stevevw]

Conservative Bible-believing Christians who take the postions indicated.

Yes thats better.

But as I said at least for some issues like guns there is no conservative bible believing aspect that supports any Christian taking that position. So obviously its more to do with the culture and tradition that has been integrated into the psyche from the history of what the gun means for those demographics. They happen to use the bible to justify something unbiblical. Its easy to expose when its extreme.

No, it is not and many people in this country support the idea. They do not necessarily support the way that it is being done.

Ok so that means that its those at the extreme like most issues where theres an element of truth but has been blown up into an extreme political position. This seems more political than anything because, well we don't see Christs church being so radically conflicted. Apart from those radicals who come in cause conflicts.

I don't share your way of life. Good thing I was born here.

So you support open borders. The exact same issue has been playing out in my country for a couple of decades. We had the "stop the boats' from the conservatives around 15 years ago. This was the influx of Indonesians and other nations above us but also a mixture of middle eastern refugees which organised crime syndicates were charging people to come in boats. Many died at sea.

I can;t see anything wrong with a policy that controls who comes in. Its not like these nations don't have generous immigration policies that allow the most needy. Its having some control over your own boarders. Which is much like having control over your home with security. Its just common sense policy.

How about being discriminated against for being a woman. a person of color, a refugee, an LGBT. Would you like that any better?

I don't agree with that either. But two wrongs don't make a right. Both should stop. I think in recent times things have been politicised and personalised with identity politics on both sides.

So now just simply saying you disagree with say SSM is seen as an attack on the persons identity. Yet voting no for SSM was a constitutional right. So its not always that opponents are actually descriminating but rather just expressing their belief. Which in our recent past was acceptable under diversity. Now its a trigger to express beliefs or political positions.

It certainly is representative of about a quarter of the US population.

Ok so a quarter leaves 3/4. I don't think you cam tar the other 3/4s with the same position. Even then I think within the 1/4 is going to be nuances that has not been considered as mentioned above such as demographics which has nothing to do with conservative Christianity. .

 

[stevevw]

That's true but remember that torture and slavery have also had widespread support as shown by practice,

Yes but we can work out that slavery was wrong and unjustified biblically. That we can look at the cultural and economic context and find other motivations for slavery besides biblical ones.

That the bible was used wrongly to justify a practice that was fuled by personal motives like economics. But also science ironically that relegated some ghumans to subspecies back then. We have in the name of science done some barbaric acts.

We Americans imprison our citizens at far greater amounts than almost any other country. I think El Salvador is worse.

Yes and this is only one aspect of how to deal with law and order. This is the punitive approach and it will never deal with the root problems. But that is not a Christian thing but political I think.

Law and order has been a big issue in the US since the days of the wild west lol.

 

[BCP1928]

Yes thats better.

But as I said at least for some issues like guns there is no conservative bible believing aspect that supports any Christian taking that position. So obviously its more to do with the culture and tradition that has been integrated into the psyche from the history of what the gun means for those demographics. They happen to use the bible to justify something unbiblical. Its easy to expose when its extreme.

The point is, they think opposing gun control is biblical so they do it in Christ's name.

“And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.” --Luke22:36

Ok so that means that its those at the extreme like most issues where theres an element of truth but has been blown up into an extreme political position. This seems more political than anything because, well we don't see Christs church being so radically conflicted. Apart from those radicals who come in cause conflicts.

So you support open borders.

Nope, and you can't make me.

The exact same issue has been playing out in my country for a couple of decades. We had the "stop the boats' from the conservatives around 15 years ago. This was the influx of Indonesians and other nations above us but also a mixture of middle eastern refugees which organised crime syndicates were charging people to come in boats. Many died at sea.

I can;t see anything wrong with a policy that controls who comes in. Its not like these nations don't have generous immigration policies that allow the most needy. Its having some control over your own boarders. Which is much like having control over your home with security. Its just common sense policy.

Our borders are under control, always have been. You are going to have to make up your mind: Either Biden was an evil left-wing criminal mastermind and let in too many undesireables for nefarious reasons or the border was open. You can't have it both ways.

I don't agree with that either. But two wrongs don't make a right. Both should stop. I think in recent times things have been politicised and personalised with identity politics on both sides.

So now just simply saying you disagree with say SSM is seen as an attack on the persons identity. Yet voting no for SSM was a constitutional right. So its not always that opponents are actually descriminating but rather just expressing their belief. Which in our recent past was acceptable under diversity. Now its a trigger to express beliefs or political positions.

Ok so a quarter leaves 3/4. I don't think you cam tar the other 3/4s with the same position. Even then I think within the 1/4 is going to be nuances that has not been considered as mentioned above such as demographics which has nothing to do with conservative Christianity. .

The 1/4 is about the size Trump's social conservative "base" of supporters. 1/4 is also about the number of "Bible-believing"Christians" in the US.
Pretty much the same 1/4. In any case, I wasn't talking about you. You're a Catholic and the Church technically regards "Bible-believers" as heretics, although nobody takes such a distinction as seriously as they once did.