Woman who preaches in Church

[PloverWing]

I can link you to plenty of services from these churches to prove my point.

Thanks, but I'm Episcopalian. I regularly attend services at one of "these churches".

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I can link you to plenty of services from these churches to prove my point.

For my part, I'm sticking with the position of Kroeger & Kroeger. In fact, not only that, but I'm still waiting for ANYONE on this entire forum to engage their work and thoroughly critique it and **cough** refute it entirely.

Let's just say that in the last several years, there have been no takers. So................all you Fundamentalists who apparently only have the ability to merely learn and read the Bible, and the Bible only, you give many like myself little to no reason to "repent" of a more educated Christian position.

It's sort of like being Copernicus or Galileo, having to put up with the less than adequate acumen of Church Leaders.


AMEN!!!!!

 

[Jermayn]

For my part, I'm sticking with the position of Kroeger & Kroeger. In fact, not only that, but I'm still waiting for ANYONE on this entire forum to engage their work and thoroughly critique it and **cough** refute it entirely.

Let's just say that in the last several years, there have been no takers. So................all you Fundamentalists who apparently only have the ability to merely learn and read the Bible, and the Bible only, you give many like myself little to no reason to "repent" of a more educated Christian position.

It's sort of like being Copernicus or Galileo, having to put up with the less than adequate acumen of Church Leaders.


AMEN!!!!!

I have no idea who Kroeger and Kroeger but am curious now. Perhaps I'll look them up late, or you could recommend something by them? Gods word trumps them regardless. As for repenting, if the Holy Spirit reveals sin in your life, that's between you and God.

 

[Strong in Him]

"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." (Matt. 7:22-23)

That doesn't answer my question.
Does the Spirit convict us- God's children - of sin immediately because he is transforming us into Jesus ' image, or does he leave it for months/years/decades until the final judgement?

Incidentally we will not be judged for our sins; Jesus has borne them for us.

 

[Strong in Him]

When someone says "I am a preacher", most people are going to think you're stating you pastor a church. Regardless, if you are teaching the men in your church, you are ignoring this particular part of the Bible.

Well "most people" would be wrong.
A preacher is someone who preaches - it doesn't follow that they have to be the Pastor/Minister of the Church.

 

[jas3]

That doesn't answer my question.
Does the Spirit convict us- God's children - of sin immediately because he is transforming us into Jesus ' image, or does he leave it for months/years/decades until the final judgement?

It does answer your question, evidently there will be people at the Last Judgment who thought they were doing "many wonderful works" in Jesus' name while in reality being "workers of iniquity." It stands to reason that they weren't convicted prior to Judgment Day.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I have no idea who Kroeger and Kroeger but am curious now. Perhaps I'll look them up late, or you could recommend something by them? Gods word trumps them regardless. As for repenting, if the Holy Spirit reveals sin in your life, that's between you and God.

Here's a link to the book. Buy it, and read it and weep, Mr. Accuser.

I Suffer Not a Woman: Rethinking 1 Timothy 2:11-15 in Light of Ancient Evidence

Working from a wide range of primary sources, this book draws the reader into ancient world thought patterns faced by the writer of the Pastoral Epistles. The authors provide a compelling case for interpreting the text in 1 Timothy 2:11-15 as a refutation of false teaching, rather than as a...

www.christianbook.com

 

[CoreyD]

No.
That's the standard answer always given to this question - "God allows sin to continue" (usually because we're in the last days) - "they'll be punished one day."

That's the Bible's answer.
Jesus said it.
Matthew 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.” ’ ”

God said it.
Acts 17:31 For He has set a day when He will judge the world with justice by the Man He has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising Him from the dead.”

I accept it. What about you?

The Bile tells us Jesus only cleans the vine that is his. John 15:1-8
He does not clean Satan's vines.

Do you think God will punish women for preaching the Gospel? For visiting people? Baptising? Taking funerals, weddings and services of Holy Communion?

The Bible's answer:
God commands women to preach the good news. Psalm 68:11
However, preaching the gospel was commissioned in the "fields". Matthew 28:19, 20; Acts 1:8
The presiding over the congregation was for upbuilding the congregation. 2 Corinthians 10:8-11; 2 Corinthians 13:10; Hebrews 13:17 Not preaching the gospel. One does not preach to believers.

He [Jesus] is the head of the body, the church... Colossians 1:18 ...and as head, “When he [Jesus] ascended on high he led a host of captives, and he gave gifts to men.” Ephesians 4:8
Since, Jesus appointed men to take the lead in the church, his body, should women not accept the arrangement and understand that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. 1 Corinthians 11:3

If they do not, are they being submissive to the Christ?
The principle at Romans 13:2 applies in this case. 'Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.'

Does this help?

Is it a sin to teach about Jesus, to encourage, to preach, to help others in their faith?

It's a command to all Christ's followers to do those things.
Is preaching done in the public squares - Luke 4:42-5:2; Acts 17:17, from city to city, in the villages, and towns - Matthew 9:35; Luke 8:1, from house to house, in the Synagogues, and temples of the Jews - Luke 10:5-12; Acts 5:42, and anywhere where people could be found?

Where in the Bible is it stated that preaching is to be done in a church building fromthe pulpit, and is a woman assigned this office?

In Psalm 138:2 it says that God has exalted his name above his word. God's name is extremely important - taking it in vain is punishable in the 10 commandments. If a woman stands up and says "GOD called me to do this; I am serving him", and she is lying and dishonouring his name, the Holy Spirit can convict and rebuke her immediately. The Spirit is transforming all Christians into Jesus' image and likeness -when does he say, about any sin, "you'll be punished on the day of judgement"?

Not in Satan's churches, no.
The Bible tells persons who want to do God's will, to get out of there - 2 Corinthians 6:14-18, because Satan's ministers ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness - 2 Corinthians 11:13-15

If a woman stands up and says "GOD called me to do this; I am serving him", she's out of line, and not keeping in step with the God of order, since the scriptures plainly tell her this is wrong.
Unless she is mentally ill, there is no excuse for her not applying the scriptures.

Is the woman in sound mind?
What does she understand from 1 Timothy 2:11-15?

 

[CoreyD]

She was proclaiming the Good News. She was a witness to the resurrection.
Women were not allowed to be witnesses - God chose a woman to be one.

Women were not allowed to be witnesses? Who said that?
Did you read Luke 8:1-3?

 

[Paidiske]

If a woman stands up and says "GOD called me to do this; I am serving him", she's out of line, and not keeping in step with the God of order, since the scriptures plainly tell her this is wrong.
Unless she is mentally ill, there is no excuse for her not applying the scriptures.

Is the woman in sound mind?

Most of us are, yes. And more than of sound mind, we take Scripture seriously and have a lively faith.

What does she understand from 1 Timothy 2:11-15?

I understand that this is one passage which reads to be read as part of the entirety of the New Testament. In which we see Paul commend a woman apostle, woman deacon, and women teachers and leaders of house churches (who presided over the worship in their homes). So, "I do not permit..." cannot be read as forbidding anything we see Paul elsewhere not only permitting, but commending, if we form an honest canonical hermeneutic.

 

[com7fy8]

Have you noticed you equate the reporting of events with teaching the word of God?

There are events in the word of God.

The Gospel includes events which are in the word of God.

He is risen > this is an event *and* the word of God which Jesus had Mary pass on to the disciples . . . as *His* message to them.

And, again, I find it quite interesting that Jesus appeared to Mary first . . . after He could have appeared to John and Peter.

 

[CoreyD]

Most of us are, yes. And more than of sound mind, we take Scripture seriously and have a lively faith.

I understand that this is one passage which reads to be read as part of the entirety of the New Testament. In which we see Paul commend a woman apostle, woman deacon, and women teachers and leaders of house churches (who presided over the worship in their homes). So, "I do not permit..." cannot be read as forbidding anything we see Paul elsewhere not only permitting, but commending, if we form an honest canonical hermeneutic.

Which scriptures did you find Paul commend a woman apostle, and woman deacon?

 

[Paidiske]

Which scriptures did you find Paul commend a woman apostle, and woman deacon?

Romans 16:7, and Romans 16:1. Translations often obscure the underlying Greek here, but Junia was an apostle and Phoebe a deacon.

 

[Jermayn]

Romans 16:7, and Romans 16:1. Translations often obscure the underlying Greek here, but Junia was an apostle and Phoebe a deacon.

Julia was the wife of Chuza, aka Joanna and was well known by the apostles. Not one of them. Phoebe was a messenger.

 

[Paidiske]

Julia was ...well known by the apostles. Not one of them.

Some people think so, but that is not how the church has traditionally understood this text. Even the Orthodox - who do not use her example to argue for women's ordination - have an unbroken understanding through church history that she was an apostle, probably one of the 70 Jesus sent out in Luke 10:1. Eg: see here: St. Junia | Hellenic Art

Phoebe was a messenger.

The text says "deacon." The exact same word that is used, for example, in 1 Timothy 3:8. And more, a deacon "of the church."

It never ceases to amaze me that people who insist on taking Scripture absolutely literally elsewhere, will rush to explain away the text in these cases.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

So why doesn't God correct them?
Why doesn't he punish the women involved?

God doesn' lt always punish straight away. That does not mean He will not punish at all.

Sometimes He will kill you immediatelly after comitting a sin, other times not, but God has not forgotten.

Perhaps God is testing His Church on faith. NT teaches us God will allow false teachers to test the Church same way He used false prophets to test Israel.

Who can understand the mind of the Lord?

Why are churches with female preachers and clergy growing?

Why is sin growing? Why are abortions growing? Does that make it right?

if you study the Bible you will see unrighteousness will increase the closed we are to Lord's coming. The false teacherd will increase, so will rebellion.

Why doesn't God call so many male preachers that if a woman were to offer the answer would be, "we don't need anyone else"? Indeed, that was something I said to someone when I first joined these forums; "if you think it's wrong for me, and other women, to preach, pray that God will raise up men - and be prepared to do it yourself". I don't remember if I got an answer.

Just because there is not enough male teachers according to you, does not mean that it's oo to rebel and have female teachers. Go back to OT, have many times there was only handful of God's prophets and tons of false prophets. Well why didn't God raise more true prophets if He didn't want all these false prophets? See where I am going with this?

If I remember correctly, there was a time in OT when there was only one true prophet in Israel. Perhaps it was because Israel constantly sinned.

God has enough male teachers, and if the number is low, perhaps we should ask ourselves if we don't live in disobedience. Lot of churches do.

 

[FaithT]

Hallo

i attend a conservative Pentecostal church and last sunday didn`t we have any services.
So i went to another service at a Pentecostal church with a female preacher.
What are you opinions on this for and against?

Timothy chapter 2 verses 11-12 says
11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness.

12 I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent.

Happy new year to all God bless

I’m against it for no other reason that male priests and pastors are what I’m used to.

 

[Strong in Him]

It does answer your question, evidently there will be people at the Last Judgment who thought they were doing "many wonderful works" in Jesus' name while in reality being "workers of iniquity." It stands to reason that they weren't convicted prior to Judgment Day.

I'm not talking about works - atheists and Muslims can do those and salvation is not by works.
I'm talking about Christians who have been filled with God's Holy Spirit; those who are God's children, those whom the Spirit is transforming into Jesus' image and likeness, 2 Corinthians 3:18. When such people - and that includes you and me - sin, does the Spirit convict us immediately so that we can repent and be forgiven, or does he leave us in that sin until the day of judgement?

 

[Strong in Him]

Women were not allowed to be witnesses? Who said that?
Did you read Luke 8:1-3?

Jewish society/practice said that.
Yes.

 

[Strong in Him]

That's the Bible's answer.
Jesus said it.
Matthew 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.” ’ ”

And where does the Bible say that born-again, Spirit-filled children of God are "tares"?

God said it.
Acts 17:31 For He has set a day when He will judge the world with justice by the Man He has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising Him from the dead.”

Judge the world, yes.
Where does it say he will judge born-again Christians who believe that Jesus died for their sins?

I accept it. What about you?

What are you asking me to accept? That Christians who trust in Jesus for forgiveness and salvation and who have been filled with the Spirit who makes them holy and is transforming them into Jesus' likeness will one day be judged in the same way, and alongside, those who have rejected Christ?
No.

The Bile tells us Jesus only cleans the vine that is his. John 15:1-8
He does not clean Satan's vines.

So if someone belongs to him and they sin, he can, and will, forgive them and make them clean?
The key phrase is "belongs to him", and that's what I was asking. Thank you.

The Bible's answer:
God commands women to preach the good news. Psalm 68:11
However, preaching the gospel was commissioned in the "fields". Matthew 28:19, 20; Acts 1:8
The presiding over the congregation was for upbuilding the congregation. 2 Corinthians 10:8-11; 2 Corinthians 13:10; Hebrews 13:17 Not preaching the gospel. One does not preach to believers.

We do, because believers need to be reminded of the Good News, reminded to remain in Christ, grow in holiness and have a correct understanding of Scripture. Someone might, intellectually, know that God loves them but not really believe it. Someone may be so damaged by their past that they cannot really accept God's love and healing - that can take years.
Or are you saying that someone can become a Christian and never again need hear a sermon or Bible teaching?

He [Jesus] is the head of the body, the church... Colossians 1:18 ...and as head, “When he [Jesus] ascended on high he led a host of captives, and he gave gifts to men.” Ephesians 4:8

He gave gifts to all. It is not just males who have gifts from the Holy Spirit; women in the OT, and NT, prophesied and even Paul said that they should.

Since, Jesus appointed men to take the lead in the church, his body, should women not accept the arrangement and understand that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. 1 Corinthians 11:3

He didn't appoint men to "take the lead".
Christ should be the head, and Lord, of ALL believers. He is my head; not a man.

If they do not, are they being submissive to the Christ?

If someone believes that God is calling them to do something and they ignore it, refuse to pray about it, talk it over and test it, are they being submissive to the One who calls? Is saying "no; not doing that", showing obedience

Does this help?

No.

It's a command to all Christ's followers to do those things.

Well there you are then.

Is preaching done in the public squares - Luke 4:42-5:2; Acts 17:17, from city to city, in the villages, and towns - Matthew 9:35; Luke 8:1, from house to house, in the Synagogues, and temples of the Jews - Luke 10:5-12; Acts 5:42, and anywhere where people could be found?

Sometimes - except Christians don't preach in synagogues.

Where in the Bible is it stated that preaching is to be done in a church building fromthe pulpit, and is a woman assigned this office?

Exactly - where is the word "pulpit" in the Bible?
And yes, she can be.

If a woman stands up and says "GOD called me to do this; I am serving him", she's out of line,

She's out of line if she stands up and says that in the middle of a service, yes - just as a man would be.
If she goes to a Minister and says "I believe God is calling me to do this"; she isn't.

keeping in step with the God of order, since the scriptures plainly tell her this is wrong.

The Scriptures do NOT plainly say that this is wrong.
Do you honestly believe that Christian women would want, and seek, to disobey God? What about the male clergy and theologians who listen to, pray with and train them

Unless she is mentally ill, there is no excuse for her not applying the scriptures.

Do you apply the Scripture which says that widows under the age of 60 should not have financial support from the church, 1 Timothy 5:9-14? Or the one that says that men should not have long hair (how long is long), 1 Corinthians 11:14? Or the Jewish law, which is still written in Scripture?
Unless you are mentally ill, there is no excuse for not applying these Scriptures.

What does she understand from 1 Timothy 2:11-15?

What do you understand from 1 Timothy 2:11-15?
Especially as that was one of the last letters that Paul wrote and he had had female teachers and do-workers in his ministry.