Why are Christians patriotic?

[Roman57]

I reject the notion that Conservatives are more patriotic. They are just more nationalist. There is a difference. WHile all nationalists are patriotic, not all patriots are nationalist.

Si what is your ecxplanation as to why Christians, statistically, are more nationalist than non-christians?

 

[rturner76]

Si what is your ecxplanation as to why Christians, statistically, are more nationalist than non-christians?

I think nationalism is a right-wing philosophy. Most Conservatives are right-wing voters. That could possibly be an oversimplification but I think it's true.

I think the right wing's top priority is "America First." There is nothing wrong with that per se but I think the statement has the connotation that America be first and all others be damned so to speak and Liberals are more in line with "personal freedom first" even if it offends other people. While it is patriotic to put the needs of our country above al else, it is just as patriotic to say we will put the freedom of Americans first.

When I say "freedom," I am referring to personal freedom as long as what you want to be free to do does not infringe on other's freedom. I'm biased but I think the conservative notion of freedom includes the freedom not to pay taxes if you employ people and the freedom to exploit our neighbors for their natural resources and their lower standards of safety and wages in other countries.

But I think that is getting into political philosophy, not the definition of patriot.

 

[eleos1954]

So, what is your opinion on Ellen White?

I have read some of her writings .... so far .... I don't find anything that is not in line with the Word of God ... she was no doubt a very gifted author ... I find her writings inspiring .... whether or not she was a prophet ... do not know ... but it is possible.

 

[rturner76]

Si what is your ecxplanation as to why Christians, statistically, are more nationalist than non-christians?

I think Christians (mainly evangelicals) have an us vs them mentality. There are the outsiders who are coming to get us on the inside etc.

 

[HarleyER]

Can someone show me, from Biblical point of view, why Christianity is related to patriotism in many people's minds? I mean, I can see why this would be true when it comes to State of Israel. Of course there are many opinions in terms of whether it applies to Israel today, but that's besides the point. The point is: I know that there are verses about it, there is just a disagreement on how to interpret them. But if you look at the other countries, such as either US or Russia, then those countries are not even in the Bible, so what makes Christians living in those countries think they have to be patriotic? Again, I am not asking about proper interpretation of those verses. I am asking you to simply point what those verses are. Even if you disagree with interpretation, at least you know what those verses are in case of Israel. Now, tell me what are the verses in case of US or Russia?

And yes, I mentioned US and Russia for a reason. I was born in Russia and I moved to US at the age of 14. As such, I know that Russians view Russia as a holy land. And, of course, Americans view America as such. Which makes it ironic given how Russia and US oppose each other politically. So each side thinks their side is God and the opposing side is the devil. Neither side is aware that Christians on the other side also think God is on their side (at least neither side ever mentioned it). But then again, given that Putin and Trump seem to support each other, and each of them is being supported by Christians of their respective countries, it is kind of brings those two patriotisms together; but, again, neither side seemed to acknowledge it.

As far as US goes, some say it was founded on Babilon, which would be a good reason "not to be" patriotic. I guess they argue out of it by saying that patriotism applies to the time of founding fathers, while Babilon applies to today. But this doesn't really cut it. If prophetic role of the US is to be Babilon, then it was predestined to be one even at the time of founding fathers. Yet their claim is that America's true purpose was to be the nation of God, as exemplified by founding fathers, and it simply strayed from its biblical purpose nowdays. But, if so, how can you say it is a fulfillment of prophecy of Babilon?

As far as Russia goes, I read on the internet few weeks ago that in the Old Testament there was a hostile kingdom of Rush, which is believed to be Russia. If thats the case, then how can they possibly claim to be a holy nation? Or, if they reject the idea that Rush refers to Russia, then again we are faced with the question: where is Russia in the Bible?

That's a very good and interesting question. While many purport ourselves as a "Christian" nation, I doubt if we were. There is no one who follows God.

Patriotism isn't unique to Christianity. Certainly Muslims build their whole society around Islam and are very patriotic to a dangerous degree at times. Japan is steeped in Shintoism. And even atheist China is very patriotic to their cause.

I suspect the cause for patriotism is that non-believers put most of their focus on their country as their favorite "team", much like sports. Around us is a bunch of patriotic unbelievers and believers are caught up in this. For Christians I think the problem is they have a difficult time grasping the concept that whatever is their country is NOT truly our homeland. We should seek the welfare of the country where we are at. But our homeland and citizenship is in heaven, not in this world.

 

[Roman57]

Patriotism isn't unique to Christianity. Certainly Muslims build their whole society around Islam and are very patriotic to a dangerous degree at times. Japan is steeped in Shintoism. And even atheist China is very patriotic to their cause.

That is a very good observation. But then, to combine your observations and mine, we see the following. If we look at other cultures or across cultures, then Christians are not more patriotic than others. But, if we look within US or Russian culture, then they are. So the question is why?

One answer that comes to mind is that the people whose religious views allign with the professed views of the country are more patriotic. But that doesn't cut it because neither Putin nor Trump made a big deal about Christianity yet Christians are their most loyal supporters. Is there a reason for that?

Also, even if both Russia and US were Christian countries, wouldn't it be more logical fir their respective Christians to be supportive of both countries at once? Yet thats not the case: Christian patriots in each of those countries view their own country as the sole bastion of Christian faith.

If you say its human nature, then why doesnt that same human nature applies yo atheists of US and Russia? Why does it mostly affect Christians of US and Russia?

If you say it affects atheists in China, yes it does. But why not atheists in US and Russia?

 

[HarleyER]

That is a very good observation. But then, to combine your observations and mine, we see the following. If we look at other cultures or across cultures, then Christians are not more patriotic than others. But, if we look within US or Russian culture, then they are. So the question is why?

One answer that comes to mind is that the people whose religious views allign with the professed views of the country are more patriotic. But that doesn't cut it because neither Putin nor Trump made a big deal about Christianity yet Christians are their most loyal supporters. Is there a reason for that?

Also, even if both Russia and US were Christian countries, wouldn't it be more logical fir their respective Christians to be supportive of both countries at once? Yet thats not the case: Christian patriots in each of those countries view their own country as the sole bastion of Christian faith.

If you say its human nature, then why doesnt that same human nature applies yo atheists of US and Russia? Why does it mostly affect Christians of US and Russia?

If you say it affects atheists in China, yes it does. But why not atheists in US and Russia?

It would be difficult to measure the number of atheists in the US and Russia who are also patriotic. Certainly there are many non-believers who are very patriotic.

This reminds me of the Biblical example of Babel. People were united with one goal. One might even had called them patriots. They love what they were doing and was ready to defend it. That is, until God came down and confused the languages. After that, the people were scattered.

Some Christians (especially here) seem to want to compartimentalize their Christianity and separate it apart from other things such as politics and science. Rather, all in Christ, are our brothers and sisters regardless of where they live. The rest is for us to evangelize.

BTW-I've talked to some Russians and Ukrainians Christians since the war. This is a difficult question for both of them who are asked to fight against their fellow Christians. In many cases, they have no choice.

 

[LW97Nils]

Patriotism of itself is NOT a sin.

 

[Roman57]

Patriotism of itself is NOT a sin.

I never said it was. But lack of patriotism isnt a sin either. Hence a question: why do Christian statistically fall on patriotic side?

Logically i would have expected statistics among Christians to be the same as among general population. Yet it is not the same: it is shifted in patriotic direction. Hence the question why.

 

[DamianWarS]

Can someone show me, from Biblical point of view, why Christianity is related to patriotism in many people's minds? I mean, I can see why this would be true when it comes to State of Israel. Of course there are many opinions in terms of whether it applies to Israel today, but that's besides the point. The point is: I know that there are verses about it, there is just a disagreement on how to interpret them. But if you look at the other countries, such as either US or Russia, then those countries are not even in the Bible, so what makes Christians living in those countries think they have to be patriotic? Again, I am not asking about proper interpretation of those verses. I am asking you to simply point what those verses are. Even if you disagree with interpretation, at least you know what those verses are in case of Israel. Now, tell me what are the verses in case of US or Russia?

And yes, I mentioned US and Russia for a reason. I was born in Russia and I moved to US at the age of 14. As such, I know that Russians view Russia as a holy land. And, of course, Americans view America as such. Which makes it ironic given how Russia and US oppose each other politically. So each side thinks their side is God and the opposing side is the devil. Neither side is aware that Christians on the other side also think God is on their side (at least neither side ever mentioned it). But then again, given that Putin and Trump seem to support each other, and each of them is being supported by Christians of their respective countries, it is kind of brings those two patriotisms together; but, again, neither side seemed to acknowledge it.

As far as US goes, some say it was founded on Babilon, which would be a good reason "not to be" patriotic. I guess they argue out of it by saying that patriotism applies to the time of founding fathers, while Babilon applies to today. But this doesn't really cut it. If prophetic role of the US is to be Babilon, then it was predestined to be one even at the time of founding fathers. Yet their claim is that America's true purpose was to be the nation of God, as exemplified by founding fathers, and it simply strayed from its biblical purpose nowdays. But, if so, how can you say it is a fulfillment of prophecy of Babilon?

As far as Russia goes, I read on the internet few weeks ago that in the Old Testament there was a hostile kingdom of Rush, which is believed to be Russia. If thats the case, then how can they possibly claim to be a holy nation? Or, if they reject the idea that Rush refers to Russia, then again we are faced with the question: where is Russia in the Bible?

Jesus says in Mat 12:14 "Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me". Where Christ's church is, is where he is, and where he is, it is holy. If we follow nation first then it is our pride of nation that shapes Christ, not Christ that shapes our nation. Those are two very different things and the former will corrupt our understanding of the gospel. We don't need to renounce our citizenship but our hearts must be willing to drop any identity that gets in the way of the gospel so that Christ may be glorified even if it means our nations are not.

Jesus says again in Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple." We often hear the language Mother Russia, Founding Fathers, Uncle Sam, Lady Liberty, comrades, etc... But these personifications of nation, patriotic postures, or these identities of self, should be held on loosely and dropped at the hint of misalignment with Christ. The strong language of hate is so that there is no compromise between Christ and anything else, we may still love our nation, or father, mother, etc... but always choose Christ when values don't align. No nation on earth will align with Christ fully and neither is any Father or mother, etc..., so a measure of separation is always needed, we need to recognize it so that we may always align ourselves with Christ over nation.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

This relates to British Israelism, and it's carry over philosophy to the colonies.

 

[Roman57]

This relates to British Israelism, and it's carry over philosophy to the colonies.

I am familiar with British Israelism. But this movement talks about bloodlines rather than countries. Genetically speaking, British and Americans share the same bloodlines, since the people that went to Mayflower are from Britain. So I don't see how they can be thinking of US being God's land without thinking of Britain as such.

Besides, British Israelism believes in keeping Sabbath, dietary laws, and so forth. Christian patriots don't do that. More generally, the flavor of British Israelism is something obscure and sectarian, while the flavor of Christian patriotism is something mainstream and taken for granted.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I am familiar with British Israelism. But this movement talks about bloodlines rather than countries. Genetically speaking, British and Americans share the same bloodlines, since the people that went to Mayflower are from Britain. So I don't see how they can be thinking of US being God's land without thinking of Britain as such.

Besides, British Israelism believes in keeping Sabbath, dietary laws, and so forth. Christian patriots don't do that. More generally, the flavor of British Israelism is something obscure and sectarian, while the flavor of Christian patriotism is something mainstream and taken for granted.

I agree that your idea of British Israelism is obscure and narrowed down. It wasn't what I was talking about.

 

[Roman57]

I agree that your idea of British Israelism is obscure and narrowed down. It wasn't what I was talking about.

So can you clarify what you talked about?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

So can you clarify what you talked about?

It relates to an attitude of earthly cultural assimilation.

 

[Roman57]

It relates to an attitude of earthly cultural assimilation.

Can you elaborate?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Can you elaborate?

The british empire took over a large part of the world.

The gospel from that era was one of cultural assimilation, in that being converted meant being more british.

This attitude carried over through the underlying cultural framework it built during that time.

The reason why American Christians are patriotic relates to some dream of creating a city on a hill type concept. Because of this, any place on the earth was fair game for the same treatment.

The attitude of Britain and the rest of Europa during the colonial and connected periods resulted in other nations wanting to have a similar flavor regarding their own nations. However, being disconnected from the original idea, these patriotic movements took on a life of their own.

So it just boils down to cultural assimilation, and equating said earth culture to God's kingdom.

 

[Roman57]

The british empire took over a large part of the world.

The gospel from that era was one of cultural assimilation, in that being converted meant being more british.

But there was also Russian empire too. Or are you saying that British Empire didn't give much thought about Russian Empire just like Russian Empire didn't give much thought about British Empire, and thus both of them equated Christianity with themseleves?

When I think of British Israelism, I think of a theory that British people are literal 10 lost tribes of Israel, in a genetic sense. And, as far as I know, this theory is being held by tiny minority. Now, a far more common theory is a Replacement Theology that says that today's Christians are not genetic Israel but instead they replace it. So I guess you could substitute Christian with British and say "British replaced Israel". But thats not what British Israelism is defined as. British Israelism is defined as saying British people are genetic offsprings of Israel, not replacement. And, therefore, British Israelism is logically incompatible with Replacement Theology.

Now, are you saying that British Israelite view is a lot more common than I assumed, or are you simply using the words differently?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

But there was also Russian empire too. Or are you saying that British Empire didn't give much thought about Russian Empire just like Russian Empire didn't give much thought about British Empire, and thus both of them equated Christianity with themseleves?

When I think of British Israelism, I think of a theory that British people are literal 10 lost tribes of Israel, in a genetic sense. And, as far as I know, this theory is being held by tiny minority. Now, a far more common theory is a Replacement Theology that says that today's Christians are not genetic Israel but instead they replace it. So I guess you could substitute Christian with British and say "British replaced Israel". But thats not what British Israelism is defined as. British Israelism is defined as saying British people are genetic offsprings of Israel, not replacement. And, therefore, British Israelism is logically incompatible with Replacement Theology.

Now, are you saying that British Israelite view is a lot more common than I assumed, or are you simply using the words differently?

The Russian empire rooted from a different influence, but the earlier root of "state religion Christianity" would have been similar.

I'm pretty sure we see/apply British Israelism differently.

 

[Roman57]

The Russian empire rooted from a different influence, but the earlier root of "state religion Christianity" would have been similar.

I'm pretty sure we see/apply British Israelism differently.

Why are you acting as if we have some strong disagreement if we simply using the term differently? Am I being stuck up on that particular theory? No. I just thought thats what that term refers to. If you think it refers to something else, then fine, tell me what it is. I am asking genuine questions but your one-sentence answers seem to suggest like I am taking some sort of adversarial stance.