70% Say Joe Biden and Kamala Harris’s Economy Is Getting Worse

[expos4ever]

They are going to do so based upon their own individual and family economics as to how that compares to 4 and 5 years ago.

True, but human beings are notoriously weak at evaluating things objectively.

 

[BPPLEE]

IMO, people's perceptions of the economy are primarily driven by the price of goods they buy everyday - groceries, gas, etc. There's a false expectation that prices will come back down to pre-covid levels. It's not going to happen unless consumers simply stop buying the goods in question.

Yes, there would have to be a recession where people could not afford groceries and gas and stopped buying them for prices to come down

 

[Laodicean60]

The Federal Reserve and the Executive branch are separate entities.

I know on paper it is but when the government can hire and fire the chairman or tweet to or have a private phone call are they?

 

[wing2000]

....but when factoring in the growth of wages....

Update: Grocery Price Inflation Has Cooled Substantially | CEA | The White House

Americans are exposed to grocery prices on at least a weekly basis, and they represent a significant share of household spending. In the most recent Consumer Price Index data, groceries made up 8% of the typical American’s spending, and data on consumption by income class (from 2022) show that...

www.whitehouse.gov

 

[BPPLEE]

....but when factoring in the growth of wages....

View attachment 352595

Update: Grocery Price Inflation Has Cooled Substantially | CEA | The White House

Americans are exposed to grocery prices on at least a weekly basis, and they represent a significant share of household spending. In the most recent Consumer Price Index data, groceries made up 8% of the typical American’s spending, and data on consumption by income class (from 2022) show that...

www.whitehouse.gov

See post #83

 

[Laodicean60]

pigs and the dogs

This reminded me of Pink Floyd.

 

[wing2000]

I know on paper it is but when the government can hire and fire the chairman or tweet to or have a private phone call are they?

True, the Congress can dismiss a Fed Reserve chair....but it has never been done. The POTUS does not have that power....though that has not been tested....yet.

 

[wing2000]

Trump is repeatedly stating that he will reduce interest rates. For the sake of argument, let's say he does (presumably by firing the current Fed Chair and appointing one loyal to his orders).

What impact would lower interest rates have on inflation?

 

[Halbhh]

Inflation usually rises in a strong economy and in 2018 the Fed started raising interest rates which Trump criticized in the news. They say they're separate entities but they're not. Biden inherited COVID

Yes, I'm familiar with all the classic economics. Inflation is of course when too much demand (money) chases too few goods, so that sellers can raise prices. (I used to subscribe to The Economist magazine for many years, often reading it cover to cover, so I got plenty of Micro and Macro economics by absorption)

What happened with Biden (to remind us) is that of course many people (even most) saved a large portion of their stimulus checks.

Note to any readers: Anyone should check on this, if they don't know it -- search up "Americans saving their stimulus checks" and find out)

So, from 2020 through spring 2021 there was a large increase in savings in average American's bank accounts, not only the rich. Average people suddenly had a lot more savings in their savings accounts....

Money, sitting there...waiting..... (like insurance), and spending began to recover, first a little, then more....

....each person was waiting for some day when they would themself begin to feel sure that the future economy was going to continue to be ok, and that their job would not disappear.

After Biden took office -- time had been passing -- and it became more clear over the months of 2021 that the economy was going to recover, and of course Biden continued to get more stimulus passed in the meanwhile....so, in time, more and more people began to feel safe to spend more... --

They could see that the economy would continue to be ok.

See?

So, demand began to increase, and increase, and increase -- a lot of increase -- even though the supply of goods was not increasing nearly enough to meet all that increase in demand.

 

[Always in His Presence]

How was that accomplished? What contributed to lower inflation rate?

I think it would be greatly beneficial to you if you researched this and found the answers for yourself.

The numbers are true and accurate and do not lie.

 

[Laodicean60]

What happened with Biden (to remind us) is that of course many people (even most) saved a large portion of their stimulus checks, as savings....waiting to spend it later when they felt the economy was more sure to continue to be good and their job would not dissappear.

Yes, and quite a few didn't the way I see the M2 money supply chart. Of course, you had investors who did well especially in the Bitcoin space.

So, once Biden took office, and it became more clear (just by the passage of time alone) that the economy was going to recover, then people began to feel safe to spend more...

Yes, lockdowns started loosening people started to spend. I see.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Once again all rations were reduced, except those of the pigs and the dogs. A too rigid equality in rations, Squealer explained, would have been contrary to the principles of Animalism. In any case he had no difficulty in proving to the other animals that they were not in reality short of food, whatever the appearances might be. For the time being, certainly, it had been found necessary to make a readjustment of rations (Squealer always spoke of it as a "readjustment," never as a "reduction"), but in comparison with the days of Jones, the improvement was enormous. Reading out the figures in a shrill, rapid voice, he proved to them in detail that they had more oats, more hay, more turnips than they had had in Jones's day, that they worked shorter hours, that their drinking water was of better quality, that they lived longer, that a larger proportion of their young ones survived infancy, and that they had more straw in their stalls and suffered less from fleas. The animals believed every word of it.

-George Orwell, Animal Farm

If you think that's a substantive rebuttal...

 

[Halbhh]

If you think that's a substantive rebuttal...

View attachment 352600

While it's easy to win on facts, what we really hope for is that all people come to repentance though....


So, here's an even better picture really -- the more hopeful, better outcome is when more of us can admit our wrongs and be cleansed and restored:

Repentance: The Missing Note In Today’s Preaching

Conrad Mbewe, pastor of Kabwata Baptist Church in Lusaka, Zambia, writes about ne need to preach repentance.

sola5.org

Trump, all his followers -- they are all mortal humans.... some day they will each die..... and oh, what a tragedy that day can be....


Each of will face God, and be held to account for the wrongs they knowingly do which they refuse to ever repent of (some will repent before the end and be forgiven...but we can hope more will, not just a few....).

Unrepented sins, such as Trump's reviling desperate asylum seekers and immigrants from countries to the south of us for just one of very many examples of him falsely accusing most of them of the crimes that only a few do. (Reviling others is not acceptable to God -- 1rst Cor 6:10)

Trump's messages like this one:

“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.” -- Donald Trump 2015

And continuing this year, in 2024:

"The Democrats say, 'Please don't call them animals. They're humans.' I said, 'No, they're not humans, they're not humans, they're animals,'" said Trump, president from 2017 to 2021.

...In Grand Rapids, Michigan, Trump described meeting the family of Ruby Garcia, a local 25-year-old murdered last month by a suspect in the country illegally, according to police. Garcia's sister denied the former president spoke with the family, according to local media reports.
In stump speeches, Trump frequently claims that immigrants crossing the border with Mexico illegally have escaped from prisons and asylums in their home countries and are fueling violent crime in the United States.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-expected-highlight-murder-michigan-woman-immigration-speech-2024-04-02/

But in reality undocumented immigrants are safer to be around than native born Americans! -->

"undocumented immigrants have substantially lower crime rates than native-born citizens and legal immigrants across a range of felony offenses. Relative to undocumented immigrants, US-born citizens are over 2 times more likely to be arrested for violent crimes, 2.5 times more likely to be arrested for drug crimes, and over 4 times more likely to be arrested for property crimes. "

https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2014704117

 

[trophy33]

....but when factoring in the growth of wages....

View attachment 352595

Are they not constantly changing what constitutes the groceries, though? Cheaper and cheaper (low quality) alternatives?

If the weekly groceries basket in 2016 is not the same one as the one in 2023, the graph does not have a telling value.

 

[BPPLEE]

While it's easy to win on facts, what we really hope for is that all people come to repentance though....


So, here's an even better picture really -- the more hopeful, better outcome is when more of us can admit our wrongs and be cleansed and restored:

Repentance: The Missing Note In Today’s Preaching

Conrad Mbewe, pastor of Kabwata Baptist Church in Lusaka, Zambia, writes about ne need to preach repentance.

sola5.org

Trump, all his followers -- they are all mortal humans.... some day they will each die..... and oh, what a tragedy that day can be....


Each of will face God, and be held to account for the wrongs they knowingly do which they refuse to ever repent of (some will repent before the end and be forgiven...but we can hope more will, not just a few....).

Unrepented sins, such as Trump's reviling desperate asylum seekers and immigrants from countries to the south of us for just one of very many examples of him falsely accusing most of them of the crimes that only a few do. (Reviling others is not acceptable to God -- 1rst Cor 6:10)

Trump's messages like this one:

“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.” -- Donald Trump 2015

And continuing this year, in 2024:

"The Democrats say, 'Please don't call them animals. They're humans.' I said, 'No, they're not humans, they're not humans, they're animals,'" said Trump, president from 2017 to 2021.

...In Grand Rapids, Michigan, Trump described meeting the family of Ruby Garcia, a local 25-year-old murdered last month by a suspect in the country illegally, according to police. Garcia's sister denied the former president spoke with the family, according to local media reports.
In stump speeches, Trump frequently claims that immigrants crossing the border with Mexico illegally have escaped from prisons and asylums in their home countries and are fueling violent crime in the United States.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-expected-highlight-murder-michigan-woman-immigration-speech-2024-04-02/

But in reality undocumented immigrants are safer to be around than native born Americans! -->

"undocumented immigrants have substantially lower crime rates than native-born citizens and legal immigrants across a range of felony offenses. Relative to undocumented immigrants, US-born citizens are over 2 times more likely to be arrested for violent crimes, 2.5 times more likely to be arrested for drug crimes, and over 4 times more likely to be arrested for property crimes. "

https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2014704117

I guess this is directed at me even though I am not a MAGA person and you are doing with Trump supporters exactly what you are condemning Trump for doing with migrants.
Still I'm not convinced that allowing over 10 million people to enter the country over the last 3 years was the Christian thing to do.
Perhaps Biden and Harris supporters should repent for those two's blatant support of abortion, if we are to judge by your standards

 

[Halbhh]

I guess this is directed at me

No, I don't know what views are and didn't assume anything about you and haven't yet any impression about your views about immigrants from the south. If you thought I did, please realize I did not -- and next, please just read my post as the urgent information that it is. I didn't assume anything at all about your views, and don't yet know what they are. If you tell me next that you love immigrants just like native born Americans -- just as God directly commands we do in scripture -- I will not be surprised, but will be simply happy to hear the encouraging, good Christian attitude!
Also, I know better than to condemn Trump (or anyone else) -- instead I am conveying a warning from scripture. We all must be humble and confess sins to God and try to love all our neighbors, including the undocumented (or documented) immigrants. We must repent (admit the wrong, confess it to God) if we have reviled anyone or any group.

 

[BPPLEE]

No, I don't know what views are and didn't assume anything about you and haven't yet any impression about your views about immigrants from the south. If you thought I did, please realize I did not -- and next, please just read my post as the urgent information that it is. I didn't assume anything at all about your views, and don't yet know what they are. If you tell me next that you love immigrants just like native born Americans -- just as God directly commands we do in scripture -- I will not be surprised, but will be simply happy to hear the encouraging, good Christian attitude!
Also, I know better than to condemn Trump (or anyone else) -- instead I am conveying a warning from scripture. We all must be humble and confess sins to God and try to love all our neighbors, including the undocumented (or documented) immigrants. We must repent (admit the wrong, confess it to God) if we have reviled anyone or any group.

I appreciate your reply. Are you concerned about abortion?

 

[Halbhh]

I appreciate your reply. Are you concerned about abortion?

Definitely in that it generally harms the mother. (while any infants that die of any reason, from a-z, will simply will gain heaven, eternal life) The best possible help for people after having basic needs met is to hear the gospel though, not anything other than the gospel.

If you are asking about what I think of the election choice, it's like choosing between 2 evils, and that's very normal though, as Christ said to us:
"No one is good, except God alone."

It's more dangerous to believers though who already know about Christ and believe to be misled and deceived, and therefore that makes Trump a greater danger to us.

 

[BPPLEE]

Definitely in that it generally harms the mother. (while any infants that die of any reason, from a-z, will simply will gain heaven, eternal life) The best possible help for people after having basic needs met is to hear the gospel though, not anything other than the gospel.

If you are asking about what I think of the election choice, it's like choosing between 2 evils, and that's very normal though, as Christ said to us:
"No one is good, except God alone."

It's more dangerous to believers though who already know about Christ and believe to be misled and deceived, and therefore that makes Trump a greater danger to us.

Okay well I don't want to derail the thread so I'm going to get back on topic

 

[wing2000]

Are they not constantly changing what constitutes the groceries, though? Cheaper and cheaper (low quality) alternatives?

If the weekly groceries basket in 2016 is not the same one as the one in 2023, the graph does not have a telling value.

Do you have some information that suggest the CPI weekly grocery basket content has changed?